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KhalDrogonIII

Dany's army strength now?

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So what's the size of her army now? Is the Dothraki Horde in the 6 figures now since she united them?

7k-8k Unsullied, 1k-2k Second Sons?

3 Dragons.

How many ships ? 100 from Yara/Theon? How many from the Masters? Is it even close to 1000? Seems unlikely..

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3 dragons, drogon,rhaegal,viserion

 100k dotharki cavalry? dunno (its supposed to be over 200-300k at least but show seems making it less)

 

her meereen force from book around 28k (the show dunno)

Quote

 

~10,600 Unsullied, including 2000 who had not earned their spiked caps

2,000 Windblown (turned on the slavers at the beginning of the battle)

~4000 Brazen Beasts city watch

~6,000 freedmen divided into 3 companies(Stalwart Shields,Free Brothers,Mother's Men)

500 Stormcrows

~200 Pit Fighters

26 squires of Barristan

~20 of Daenerys Targaryen's Dothraki warriors

~unknown number of elephants

4,400+ reavers

44 war galleys

17 captured slaver ships (merchant ships, cogs, war galleys)

 

 

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18 hours ago, KhalDrogonIII said:

So what's the size of her army now? Is the Dothraki Horde in the 6 figures now since she united them?

7k-8k Unsullied, 1k-2k Second Sons?

3 Dragons.

How many ships ? 100 from Yara/Theon? How many from the Masters? Is it even close to 1000? Seems unlikely..

i think her army will reach half million in book after she conquers volantis but it seems tv show skipping it and instead giving her young griff plot-line (dorne and probably tyrells alliance)

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All of this is based on the show and what we have seen so far.

It's by far the largest and most complete in the world. Look at what the Knights of the Vale just did to the Bolton army, imagine 100,000 (minimum) Dothraki on horse back coming at you in battle. Plus the best trained infantry in the Unsullied. And, the Iron Born fleet, people whose whole lives have been spent on ships. Three dragons and most importantly, a half man!

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What this episode showed more than anything else is the dramatic contrast between the forces controlled by Daenerys and even the combined forces of the Bolton / Stark armies. 

Yes, she has over 100,000 of the fiercest cavalry. 

But the dragons!  Not just air superiority, the only force with any capability from the air.

Barring treachery from the inside, she would lay waste to any opposing force.  That battle scene was incredible. 

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Hopefully she dies regardless of how big her army is, can't stand her, never could, mary sue and one of the worst character in both the show and books.

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3 hours ago, tormond said:

Only the army of the dead is match to her.

I'm not sure the Army of the Dead has her numbers.yet anyway

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Well how many Dothraki and Ironborn will she still have if they are never allowed to go raping, pillaging, and raiding again?  Or was that a requirement for only the Ironborn? 

 

Kinda seems hypocritical that she is going to bring peace and make a better world by roasting all who oppose her with dragon fire.

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The first season, Eddark mention that there were 50k Dothraki. How accurate he was, who knows. If we were to double that, it would be 100k. ~10k Unsullied and 2,000 from the second sons. That's roughly 62k or 112k.

Neither the show, nor the books ever brought up the question about the camp that actually follows the Dothraki army. You'd imagine that for every Dothraki soldier there is at least 1 other person in the camp along with all their possession (since they are a horde). I wonder how they will even move to Westeros....

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The Dothraki are fierce.  The Dothraki are numerous.  But the Dothraki are not the best calvary unit by far.  A lot of people mistakenly make the assumption that they are heavy calvary.  They are not.  20K of true heavy calvary and 30k of trained pikeman would wade through them like butter. They don't have any Valyrian steel to speak of, so that huge expanse of people and horses will only serve to swell the ranks of the WW.  

The Dothraki are a major power in Essos because the way they prepare soldiers to fight is vastly different than Westeros.

In the books, something like 3 or 5 thousand Unsullied stood with their backs to a wall against like 3 or 4 times their number in Dothraki light calvary.  The Khal sent wave after wave of them against them, only to be killed.  The Khal eventually just gave up.  He cut his braid and threw it at the feet of the Unsullied.

I will stipulate that the Unsullied are probably the finest infantry on Planetos.  Especially given how well the fight with the equipment they have.  They would make a significant difference in the power struggle for the Throne, but there is just not enough of them to be c considered a huge threat to the WW invasion.

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12 minutes ago, The Lash said:

The Dothraki are fierce.  The Dothraki are numerous.  Bit the Dothraki are not thr best calvary unit by far.  A lot of people mistakenly make the assumption that they are heavy calvary.  They are not.  20K of true heavy calvary and 30k of trained pikeman would wade through them like butter. They don't have any Valyrian steel to speak of, so that huge expanse of people and horses will only serve to swell the ranks of the WW.  

The Dothraki are a major power in Essos because the way they prepare soldiers to fight is vastly different than Westeros.

In the books, something like 3 or 5 thousand Unsullied stood with their backs to a wall against like 3 or 4 times their number in Dothraki light calvary.  The Khal sent wave after wave of them against them, only to be killed.  The Khal eventually just gave up.  He cut his bra d and threw it at the feet of the Unsullied.

I will stipulate that the Unsullied are probably the finest infantry on Planetos.  Especially given how well the fight with the equipment they have.  They would make a significant difference in the power struggle for the Throne, but there is just not enough of them to be c considered a huge threat to the WW invasion.

If we are to assume that Dothraki and the Westeros Knights represent the medieval counterparts of light and heavy cavalry, there is no way that the Dothraki would lose. Again, if we are doing talking about their counterparts, then light cavalry was used to counter heavy cavalry. 

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Her army is by and large much larger than anything westeros could muster at this point. 

However the skill and armament of her army is the real question. 

We just saw the wildlings completely unequipped to fight an organized westerosi army. The freedmen companies will be that equivalent. At that, none of Danys army would have faced armoured Knights before.

We saw what jorah could do to the Dothraki. The Dothraki have no idea how to fight armoured opponents and aren't equipped to do so. 

I forget the exact breakdown but a large chunk of the unsullied never completed their training and some were entirely green recruits. She also has lost a large chunk of unsullied, her most formidable force, throughout her conquests and defense. 

This is completely my opinion and I'm sure many will disagree but I don't think the iron born are disciplined or skilled in combat. Their only value is their naval abilities. Which I would think Euron would work to undermine. 

The only part of her army that westeros doesn't have an answer to are her dragons. 

This won't be addressed in the show but in the books, her absolutely biggest obstacle? Feeding them. 

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3 minutes ago, xjlxking said:

If we are to assume that Dothraki and the Westeros Knights represent the medieval counterparts of light and heavy cavalry, there is no way that the Dothraki would lose. Again, if we are doing about their counterparts, then light cavalry was used to counter heavy cavalry. 

To help counter, not to attack them directly, they used flanking maneuvers and guerrilla tactics combined with troops on the ground.  They did not just sweep in and clean up.  This is why there are commanders.  A good commander will chose his ground, be patient, and not misuse his greatest resource, the men doing the fighting.  I would put a Westerosi commander over a Khal any day when it comes to military tactics.   I do not recall anywhere in the books or show pointing out the brilliance of siege warfare by the Dothraki.  Walls present a serious problem to the Dothraki.  So do long spears and shields.  So do armored horses and riders.

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10 minutes ago, The Lash said:

To help counter, not to attack them directly, they used flanking maneuvers and guerrilla tactics combined with troops on the ground.  They did not just sweep in and clean up.  This is why there are commanders.  A good commander will chose his ground, be patient, and not misuse his greatest resource, the men doing the fighting.  I would put a Westerosi commander over a Khal any day when it comes to military tactics.   I do not recall anywhere in the books or show pointing out the brilliance of siege warfare by the Dothraki.  Walls present a serious problem to the Dothraki.  So do long spears and shields.  So do armored horses and riders.

Well we aren't talking about specific commanders or scenarios. What I'm saying is, light cavalry in medival history had an advantage against the heavy cavalry. The dothraki would absolutely have that same advantage available to them. Could they utilize it like you said is up to the commander.

i should mention that if you look at history,  like that of Parthia, Sassanid, or even Roman army, the light cavalry was always the one to choose  the battle. A heavy cavalry may be able to choose when to attack a infantry but they would never be able to engage the light cavalry. This is actually one of the reason that heavy cavalry fell out of favor with the Romans in the western front. The Germanic tribes used light to pick fights, run, or raid. I'd say this would apply to the Dothraki if like you said they can utilize it

the dothraki may not have the ability to attack the city but they can put the city on seige and make it starve out or worse, destroy itself with disease. I thought this was kind of why the Dothraki visit cities.. You pay a tribute that's big enough or risk e consequences. Although, I agree that's not what they are known for.

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11 minutes ago, xjlxking said:

Well we aren't talking about specific commanders or scenarios. What I'm saying is, light cavalry in medival history had an advantage against the heavy cavalry. The dothraki would absolutely have that same advantage available to them. Could they utilize it like you said is up to the commander.

i should mention that if you look at history,  like that of Parthia, Sassanid, or even Roman army, the light cavalry was always the one to choose  the battle. A heavy cavalry may be able to choose when to attack a infantry but they would never be able to engage the light cavalry. This is actually one of the reason that heavy cavalry fell out of favor with the Romans in the western front. The Germanic tribes used light to pick fights, run, or raid. I'd say this would apply to the Dothraki if like you said they can utilize it

the dothraki may not have the ability to attack the city but they can put the city on seige and make it starve out or worse, destroy itself with disease. I thought this was kind of why the Dothraki visit cities.. You pay a tribute that's big enough or risk e consequences. Although, I agree that's not what they are known for.

Where they going to run to when the WW army sweeps down from the North?  Back to Essos? Good, less undead to fight then. The Dothraki are so overrated as a military power it is not even funny.  The Romans did not know the territory nearly as well as the locals.  That was their folly.  You think the Dothraki are going to do any better? Yeah, they are going to win on ground they absolutely have no clue about.  In reality,  they would be herded like cattle to some local killzone that took away their advantage of speed and maneuverability

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I would drive them into the Marshes of the Neck at the first opportunity.  Or force them along the path of the Bloody Gate.  Hell, just keep driving them North into the cold and see how well the desert people deal with that.

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If there are 100k warriors for the Dothraki, she will have to splinter that force into much smaller divisions.  The Lords and small folk will hate her when they come through and take every scrap of food and fodder.  Not a great way to garner support to claim your birthright. Like  the guy before me said.  Feeding them and their animals will be a serious issue.  She had better have a plan to minimize the suffering of her invasion.  The common folk will only see more war that they have to pay the price for and not the Lords.  Rightly so.  I am sure she is very wealthy, but is she wealthy enough to support almost entirely on her own, a war that can stretch on for years.  Hardly any of Westeros is going to support her at first, that is why the writers gave her such a huge army (I almost said Grand, but that is not the right word.  Her army is huge, but not Grand by any means).

Let's say with the above estimates she has 120k warriors, 100k are all light calvary.  Doesn't seem like a well balanced army, though they usually don't tend to do well.  And I don't want to hear a thing about the Mongols.  Half of Genghis Kahns conquests were due as much to political acumen as was to straight out war.  Plus, he never fought anybody in steel plate or chain mail.  He wouldn't have accomplished near as much without the advantage of the stirrup.  

Well anyway, Dany can't move a 120k man army around Westeros and accomplish her goals realistically.  So i am going to say she is going to have to logistically have 10 armies of around 12k men.  I am getting this number based off army sizes of the war.  And also i am going to say the resistance against her will be able to raise something like 60k men to battle her.  They are not going to meet her head to head 60k versus 120k.  Won't happen.  That would be stupid and idiotic.  So given the same 'formula' the resistance would have something like 6 armies of 10k men.  Now, here is where good. Commanders who know their homelands become important.  You keep your armies far enough apart (two armies working in tandem) to be able to feed them ( without endangering both supply lines) and deny your enemy of vital supplies, but not so far apart they cannot reinforce another or coordinate to spring a trap.  2 or 3 days hard march. Having local knowledge of all areas of Westeros is key here.  The Dothraki won't ever have knowledge as good as the locals. Where and when you have your battle are just as important as numbers.  The Dothraki are very mobile, but even they need suplies, they are not going to forage enough to feed themselves in a land they don't know, and since most of the readily available food in Westeros happens to be walled up, raiding is not feasible either.  You cut their supply lines and make sure you stay as mobile as possible.  If i had one of those 10k armies, I would use my light calvary just as they operate.  To harass the flanks and rear of the enemy army to slow their main body down so my infantry can keep pace as much as possible.  Run mock attacks at night to deny them sleep. But seeing as my light calvary is a smaller force with less supplies, animals, and people to move.  I should be a bit more mobile than them.  When my coordinating armies are close enough to enact a plan that gives a significant military advantage (weather, geographical, topography, or just capitalizing on a mistake the enemy made such as out marching its supply lines or not close enough to reinforcements) then you hit them hard. Since they do not know the terrain as well, this type of mistake is more likely for them to make. If you are Westeros, You keep your armies near the major holds.  Not only to protect them, but to use them to save your armies ass if need be. If the Dothraki force a retreat inside one, so what, you meet them with the walls at your back like The Unsullied.  You also send ravens for reinforcements that get shot down to one particular hold, so they think one thing, while you slip a runner out the secret way of whatever hold has whatever secret way ou.  There a a few that have been covered. To hit them from a different direction and smash them against the very wall they are guarding.

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Now on to the dragons.  Ballistae.  Some placed with the armies and at all key locations in Westeros.  Every major hold will have as many as possible that does not hamper routine.  They will be placed at the highest possible point on every section of wall. Every craftman in Westeros stops what they are doing and start making these.  The Dragons can be hurt. They bleed.  Regular steel is more than adequate. Then you have truly devious people like Randyll Tarly think tank on it.  I would also booby trap every place in every major hold that could house dragons. Some key people with orders to set off the booby trap at a time when they were there if a hold is taken would be left behind.  Dany is not going to let her dragons roam in Westeros.  They could be killed, and they would simply be unreliable.

I would also poison the feed animals.  With a few different poisons, with the hopes of at least makimg them ill to degrade performance.  The levels in the individual animals would not be lethal to the animals themselves, but i would hope like hell over x amount of feedings it might impact the dragons. (This strategy could be adapted to the Dothraki horse)

Information reguarding the dragons would be handsomely rewarded.  I think it would be extremely difficult to recruit spies within her army.  She does command loyalty without the actual command.  But she cannot slaughter all the small folk of her conquests in Westeros.  She also needs a support staff that will be comprised of Westerosi.  There, some results could be attained.  Plus dragons are pretty noticeable.  If your information lead to the death of a dragon, automatic lord status and huge tracts of land.

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