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Ben GT

Whats the point of the dire wolves?

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7 hours ago, CalvoHobbo said:

Because the wolves symbolize everything about the Stark children, each wolf is customized to each child. It's part of the fantasy aspect of the series. If you can't tell from my avatar, it's one of my favorite aspects of the story. Shaggydog I suppose I get, if that's what happens in the books too, but Summer's death just seemed completely unnecessary to me. 

I hear that complaint a lot on these boards, but is there any proof of that this is true? 

Why is it so much harder to make a CGI wolf than a CGI dragon? Or white walker or wight or knights on horses battling each other in the mud? 

A fury Direwolf has literarily millions of triangles more than a skinny dragon with no hair. That is big, big mainframe time (=expensive).Even if they film real wolfes and skale them up. Wight walkers and wights are filmed in reality with bluescreen technic. That is more styling than cgi, the computer does only the endfinsh. Same with knights on horses.

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3 hours ago, BulletTooth_Tony said:

 

 

3 hours ago, BulletTooth_Tony said:

I feel like Summer's death will likely happen in the exact same way in the books.  Just look at his name.  Summer.  It's symbolic to have White Walkers kill Summer... Winter is arriving, and thematically killing what was a very long Summer.

No they haven't?  Grey Wind, notably, was killed in his pen, in the aftermath of the Red Wedding.

In the show, Robb was still alive when they killed Grey wind. Shot up, but alive. Then Catelyn gives her speech about letting them leave and stuff. 

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6 hours ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

That's just sad. As someone said earlier, why not just make CG wolves, like in the Warcraft movie?

Because animating fur is incredibly difficult and expensive. Also, at least in my opinion, it is always better not to use CGI if you can achieve something practically, because if you create something with CGI, it can never be as convincing as the real thing (CGI should be reserved for things that cannot be achieved practically, the dragons for example). Sadly, most filmmakers don't do things this way anymore because CGI has become cheaper.

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11 hours ago, CalvoHobbo said:

 

Why is it so much harder to make a CGI wolf than a CGI dragon? Or white walker or wight or knights on horses battling each other in the mud? 

CGI fur is notoriously difficult to implement properly. Sure, megaproductions like Warcraft can afford to have nice looking fur, but GoT doesn't have that much budget to put in the CGI, especially since it competes with the dragons that were often front and center this season amd are comparatively more awesome and easier to do.

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27 minutes ago, Pryftan213 said:

Because animating fur is incredibly difficult and expensive. Also, at least in my opinion, it is always better not to use CGI if you can achieve something practically, because if you create something with CGI, it can never be as convincing as the real thing (CGI should be reserved for things that cannot be achieved practically, the dragons for example). Sadly, most filmmakers don't do things this way anymore because CGI has become cheaper.

Believe me, you don't have to convince me of the value of practical effects. I hate CGI as much as the next person and thinks it's a crutch that too many filmmakers rely on at the expense of practical effects.

However, I also don't think the limitation of practical effects should also limit story potential. From what I'm understanding, the whole reason D&D are commiting direwolf genocide is simply because they don't want to work with the wolves any more. I know a CGI wolf wouldn't look as good as a real wolf, but these are direwolves and as such are slightly magical creatures, so they would have some room for suspension of disbelief. If the CGI would grant them the flexibility where they didn't feel the need to kill off wolves simply for convenience, then they should have looked into it.

Although, fair point about the fur on the wolves being difficult and expensive to animate.

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8 hours ago, Lady Lyanna Mormont said:

Exactly this. I think Sansa was the only one who didn't warg into Lady. Probably because she died pretty soon, but I'd also guess it was to show how she was the only one disconnected from her Stark heritage.
Also, let's remember there are lots of book things the show had to drop, either because of time, budget or simply unfeasible to translate to TV.
That's why I always say, the show and the books are completely different entities. The end game will be the same such as who will sit on the IT, heck, if there will still be an IT, the future of Westeros, etc, but how we get there, will probably be different.

The CGI wolf is harder because of the fur and as someone mentioned, as much as they are giant wolves they are somewhat "real" and should resemble the animal. I don't think the WW are CGI or, at least, have that much CGI since there are people with makeup representing them. Also, I do believe the wolves connection with the Stark children would be hard to translate to TV since it's subtle and would require a lot of explanation so they cut that to a minimum, whereas the dragons, well, they fly and fry. :D

I don't understand why people are questioning Ghost not being in the battle, it seems pretty obvious to me, it's an animal with no armor, he would be dead in like, 5 minutes! Didn't Summer's death show ya'll anything? I mean, he had to attack the WW and sacrifice himself so Bran and co. could have a chance at escaping. Though I much hope that's not he goes out and he manages to escape with Bran. And please, George, Hodor too. :ack:

How many times did GreyWind go into battles with Robb in the books? They didnt have archers and swords etc etc...? GreyWind had plenty of kills.

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6 hours ago, of man and wolf said:

How many times did GreyWind go into battles with Robb in the books? They didnt have archers and swords etc etc...? GreyWind had plenty of kills.

That was before Direwolves were put on the "too hard" list for the show.

I really fail to see how Direwolves are 'hard'. There's not even that much CGI involved because it's not like they are made from scratch, they can just make the dogs bigger. Brienne is made to look bigger than she is so why can't they do this with animals? Dogs are soooo easy to train. Cats can be trained as well and were used successfully in Harry Potter. I don't see what the issue is unless it's personal. Maybe they're allergic?

 

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8 hours ago, Jasta11 said:

CGI fur is notoriously difficult to implement properly. Sure, megaproductions like Warcraft can afford to have nice looking fur, but GoT doesn't have that much budget to put in the CGI, especially since it competes with the dragons that were often front and center this season amd are comparatively more awesome and easier to do.

Why do they need CGI fur when the fur is already there on the dogs? They only need to make the dogs bigger. Is it incredibly hard to make an existing creature bigger?

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9 hours ago, Lord Hanna said:

 

In the show, Robb was still alive when they killed Grey wind. Shot up, but alive. Then Catelyn gives her speech about letting them leave and stuff. 

Yup. You're right. 

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6 hours ago, of man and wolf said:

How many times did GreyWind go into battles with Robb in the books? They didnt have archers and swords etc etc...? GreyWind had plenty of kills.

Wasn't it said that Grey Wind was sort of like Robb's right hand soldier or something to that effect?

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I tinik would have prefered regular trained wolfdogs if that would have meant that they would have been included more. It would have been less impressive and mythical, but I love the bond between the Stark kids and the Direwolves, and would have liked to see that more on the show.

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8 hours ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

Believe me, you don't have to convince me of the value of practical effects. I hate CGI as much as the next person and thinks it's a crutch that too many filmmakers rely on at the expense of practical effects.

However, I also don't think the limitation of practical effects should also limit story potential. From what I'm understanding, the whole reason D&D are commiting direwolf genocide is simply because they don't want to work with the wolves any more. I know a CGI wolf wouldn't look as good as a real wolf, but these are direwolves and as such are slightly magical creatures, so they would have some room for suspension of disbelief. If the CGI would grant them the flexibility where they didn't feel the need to kill off wolves simply for convenience, then they should have looked into it.

Although, fair point about the fur on the wolves being difficult and expensive to animate.

THIS!!!! To be honest, I wouldn't mind how the wolves looked as long as they were used effectively in the story. Hell, have Ghost turn Super Saiyan and turn blonde for all i care. He's supposed to be mythical anyway lol

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8 hours ago, SixFeetUnder said:

Ghost=nissa nissa...........

just wanted to stir the pot. Lol

I think in the books you're correct.

I think the names are significant too, but I can't work all of them out.

Lady = Dying equates to the beginning of Sansa's transformation from a prim and proper lady to a player.

Summer = Dying equates to the beginning of Winter.

Ghost = Jon's avatar.  Dying will equate to Jon's resurrection.

Shaggydog = Probably equates to either Rickon and/or all the Direwolves as not being that important to the ultimate story after all.

Nymeria = Not sure on this one yet.

Greywind = Not sure on this one either.  But words are wind comes up a lot in the story so maybe it relates to Robb going back on is marriage pact.  Words are wind is also interesting being lined up with the Winds of Winter.

 

 

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18 hours ago, Masha said:

 

I don't think that Ghost will survive. I think he would die in the next season or so, and upon his death Jon will get one of 3 Dany's dragons, signifying him moving from his Stark identity to Targ. And I think he would not survive in the books either.

Nymeria.... perhaps.

#1 Dragons are mystical creatures, basically create them anyway you like, copy from any video game or movie - you got your "realistic dragon". Wolves, well we all know wolves, if they don't look real or act real or act too much like dogs, to bad proportions, bad moves - its obvious. (Check out Ramsey's last scene - that dog did NOT look real to me, it looked CGI)

 

It was a real dog. The breed is called cane corso. Another name is italian mastiff. Google it they're actually magnificent dogs. I know because i always wanted one and got really excited when i  saw it lol 

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24 minutes ago, Jon Snow Bengal said:

Why do they need CGI fur when the fur is already there on the dogs? They only need to make the dogs bigger. Is it incredibly hard to make an existing creature bigger?

For CGI?  It depends on the level of detail required.  Upscaling a human (giant for example) is a lot easier than upscaling a cat or dog.

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2 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

For CGI?  It depends on the level of detail required.  Upscaling a human (giant for example) is a lot easier than upscaling a cat or dog.

Aryas cat didn't need to be upscaled (the cat she warged into during Bravos). The writers/producers just chose not to use the cat and turn Arya into a mini assassin who doesn't feel pain instead.

The Direwolves are important to the story & integral to the Starks. I know that they have not been made integral to the Show Starks but that was a decision made by D&D (assumably) half way through the series and the story is weaker because of it. The Direwolves are just as important to Starks as Dragons are to Targaryens.

There must be some kind of workaround to upscale the Direwolves - if the fur is so hard to upscale then possibly just downscale everything else? Duplicate patches? Just change the colour for different wolves? Re-use cgi patches of fur & add them to new scenes.  If it can't be done then no Nymerias pack. No hope of Arya rejoining Nymeria and regaining authenticity in her story. 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

I think in the books you're correct.

I think the names are significant too, but I can't work all of them out.

Lady = Dying equates to the beginning of Sansa's transformation from a prim and proper lady to a player.

Summer = Dying equates to the beginning of Winter.

Ghost = Jon's avatar.  Dying will equate to Jon's resurrection.

Shaggydog = Probably equates to either Rickon and/or all the Direwolves as not being that important to the ultimate story after all.

Nymeria = Not sure on this one yet.

Greywind = Not sure on this one either.  But words are wind comes up a lot in the story so maybe it relates to Robb going back on is marriage pact.  Words are wind is also interesting being lined up with the Winds of Winter.

 

 

I like this theory, Ive been a book reader long before HBO came out with the series. In the history of westeros, Nymeria was a warrior queen who came over from essos, and landed in dorne. I'm not sure if the history of the name will give us any clues to arya's wolf. 

I still think ghost could do something, and jon's honor could compel him to kill ghost. I'm not sure if this will happen now, or after the bwob shows up north, so they can witness the "miracle". 

Also wonder if the forging of the sword is literal, or just a metaphor. Sam could come across some info on making valaryian steel. And he could be literally forging swords. Maybe the lion could be a Lannister. 

Sorry brain wondering. 

Back to the topic, I do think the direwolfs are there only to protect the kids up to a certain point. I don't think they ever had end game status. Just like ser Gareth pointed out. So having them have less screen time isn't really an issue for me. 

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2 hours ago, Jon Snow Bengal said:

Brienne is made to look bigger than she is so why can't they do this with animals?

Wait, Brienne is a computer generated giant?  I had no idea!

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