St Daga Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 5 hours ago, Rumy Stark said: I love this! Well put! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Daga Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 4 hours ago, ummester said: Agree with this except for - what's wrong with it being a loss of humanity? What is wrong with the idea that Jon has been reborn dark, inhuman or anti-human? I think it's more than maybe a hint of things to come but it is things to come - Jon and Dany will be the destroyers Westeros needs for it's rebirth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Daga Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 5 hours ago, ummester said: Agree with this except for - what's wrong with it being a loss of humanity? What is wrong with the idea that Jon has been reborn dark, inhuman or anti-human? I think it's more than maybe a hint of things to come but it is things to come - Jon and Dany will be the destroyers Westeros needs for it's rebirth. ******* In response to your idea that a lack of humanity might not be a bad thing, I have to disagree. A character whom I think never displayed humamity, before or after his undead status, is Gregor Clegane. I certainly don't see that for Jon. Certainly Jon may no longer be human, although we don't know that he's not, he still displays emotions like love, compassion, sorrow (which animals can also demonstrate). I see that you feel Jon is a destroyer, the flip side to Dany, but I think Jon is the middle ground, the one who will heal a torn land, because he is of Ice and Fire. If there is a great destroyer on the ice side, I feel it could be Bran. P.S. Sorry if this post turns out funny and this response is within your quote, but I had no other option to respond. Possibly a glitch on my phone. -St Daga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kytheros Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 17 hours ago, St Daga said: Quote I have felt like Jon was on autopilot since his resurrection. He was distant and flat, and honestly I felt like he was wasting his second chance. But when he charged ahead to try to save Rickon, I felt like his fire was reignited. And the look in his eyes when Rickon died ... Not as in Rhaegar/Targaryen fire (if R+L=J, which it almost certainly does and I've never heard Rhaegar described as having a temper) but in the wolf's blood way of the Starks, hot tempered, quick to react, tempestuous in the way that Lyanna and Brandon were said to be. And I celebrated that returning to Jon, even if it caused him to make some poor decisions in battle. But if Jon felt like he was going to die in this battle, had a death wish or that he didn't deserve his second chance at life, and he chose pre-battle not to be resurrected (which Melisandre completely blew off), he himself chose life when he was being smothered under that pile of bodies! He fought for his life! I thought in that scene, and more when I rewatched it, how his gasps for breath mirrored his first breaths post resurrection! But this time Jon chose to live! So maybe that was his true resurrection, and now we will see who Jon is? As for him beating the crap out of Ramsey, I didn't feel like Jon lost some of his humanity at all. War rage and blood fever or simple justification (Ramsay was a complete shit of a person), but not dehumanizing of Jon. But maybe that is a hint from Kit and D & D of things to come. In the books, at least, there's a fair amount of evidence that Jon's got something of a berserker streak in him. Not sure if any of that has previously carried into the show, but it strikes me as a reasonable explanation. I prefer the interpretation that seeing Sansa was what snapped him out of his rage, that he didn't want her to see him like that, rather than the B&W claim that he stopped beating on Ramsay because he wanted to give the kill to Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumy Stark Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Kytheros said: I prefer the interpretation that seeing Sansa was what snapped him out of his rage, that he didn't want her to see him like that, rather than the B&W claim that he stopped beating on Ramsay because he wanted to give the kill to Sansa. Do the two have to be mutually exclusive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survivor92 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 18 hours ago, St Daga said: Quote I have felt like Jon was on autopilot since his resurrection. He was distant and flat, and honestly I felt like he was wasting his second chance. But when he charged ahead to try to save Rickon, I felt like his fire was reignited. And the look in his eyes when Rickon died ... Not as in Rhaegar/Targaryen fire (if R+L=J, which it almost certainly does and I've never heard Rhaegar described as having a temper) but in the wolf's blood way of the Starks, hot tempered, quick to react, tempestuous in the way that Lyanna and Brandon were said to be. And I celebrated that returning to Jon, even if it caused him to make some poor decisions in battle. But if Jon felt like he was going to die in this battle, had a death wish or that he didn't deserve his second chance at life, and he chose pre-battle not to be resurrected (which Melisandre completely blew off), he himself chose life when he was being smothered under that pile of bodies! He fought for his life! I thought in that scene, and more when I rewatched it, how his gasps for breath mirrored his first breaths post resurrection! But this time Jon chose to live! So maybe that was his true resurrection, and now we will see who Jon is? As for him beating the crap out of Ramsey, I didn't feel like Jon lost some of his humanity at all. War rage and blood fever or simple justification (Ramsay was a complete shit of a person), but not dehumanizing of Jon. But maybe that is a hint from Kit and D & D of things to come. Good post! I think we could see more of Jon's dark side now in upcoming episodes. Maybe in E10 he will first execute lord Karstark and then possibly deal with Melisandre/Littlefinger? There must also be stragglers remaining from the Umber/Karstark/Bolton forces, perhaps he won't show them mercy either (or send them all to the Wall). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kytheros Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 22 hours ago, Rumy Stark said: Do the two have to be mutually exclusive? Well, in the Inside the Episode, either Benioff or Weiss said that Jon only stopped beating Ramsay because he saw Sansa and realized, nope, Ramsay's not his to finish off, but Sansa's. I don't like that position at all, and would much prefer it if Jon had stopped because he didn't want Sansa seeing him like that instead of Jon stopping in order to let his younger sister make the kill. It feels more consistent with how the characters have been established, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiceBorn Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Yawn. A Cold Mountain rip-off an so much philosophy. Also: it is disgusting to see you brother beat someone to a pulp but quite tasty to watch the other guy eaten alive. Sansa WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaysman Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 On 6/21/2016 at 8:09 PM, King Perkis said: Agree but they tried to make into something more. They said "Jon lost a part of himself." If anything he discovered a part of him we've been waiting to see. Melissandre told Jon he had great power and he was limiting himself by resisting it, or something to that effect. I wonder if his death, resurrection and battlefield "rebirth" woke it up? Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.