Rumy Stark Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 So there seems to be a lot of speculation about Jon becoming KitN, or at least Lord of Winterfell/Warden of the North. It seems unlikely to me at this point that Sansa wouldn't push her own claim to Winterfell over Jon's, esp if she really has LF and the Vale army behind her. I can see the argument being made that Jon is technically the victor and won Winterfell back by conquest, but he did that while working with a Stark heir, so it seems like it would be sloppy storytelling if it was just assumed that he'd be Lord of Winterfell/Warden of the North/ KitN whatever. Especially given how much time they spent reminding us that Jon isn't technically a Stark but Sansa is. So I'm wondering first if Sansa has the power to legitimize Jon. Stannis talked about it, but he was (at least claiming to be) the King, and I can't remember who legitimized Ramsay. Does anyone have insight on how that process works? And if she can legitimize him, would she? In some ways it seems like she'd have to in order for it to make sense for him to end up in any kind of position of power in The North, which it seems like he needs to be as a set-up for the battle with the WWs that's coming. But it also seems so unlikely that after all this Sansa would just step back and be like, "Yeah Jon, you got this. I'll just hang out in the background even though I've been working very hard to maneuver myself into a position of power." How do y'all see this playing out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bad Wolf Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Only a king can legitimize. A Lord can ask him to do so, just like Roose asked the Crown for legitimacy for Ramsay and King Tommen allowed it. In book!canon it is speculated that Robb, as King in the North, legitimized Jon in his will before the RW. I don't recall such will in TV Show. Sansa can't become a Queen, because she was married to Tyrion and Ramsay (plus the latter consummated the marriage), so she can't legitimize him. Since Rickon is dead, only Bran could do it. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if northern lords declared Jon a Stark and a King because reasons.. there were dumber things in this show already. On the other hand... if northern lords agreed on Stannis as their king... couldn't Davos do it? After all he is Hand of the King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 2 hours ago, Rumy Stark said: So there seems to be a lot of speculation about Jon becoming KitN, or at least Lord of Winterfell/Warden of the North. It seems unlikely to me at this point that Sansa wouldn't push her own claim to Winterfell over Jon's, esp if she really has LF and the Vale army behind her. I can see the argument being made that Jon is technically the victor and won Winterfell back by conquest, but he did that while working with a Stark heir, so it seems like it would be sloppy storytelling if it was just assumed that he'd be Lord of Winterfell/Warden of the North/ KitN whatever. Especially given how much time they spent reminding us that Jon isn't technically a Stark but Sansa is. We have had kinslaying ahoy, bastards ruling Dorne and all types of other things inconsistent with the laws and customs of westeros. We have already gotten waaaaaay past the sloppy storytelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnowed Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 There are spoilers out there guys and it's not Sansa who does this it's the other Northern Loads including the young girl who is head of house mormont. I suspect Sansa and Little finger won't like this but will play along with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 26 minutes ago, JonSnowed said: There are spoilers out there guys and it's not Sansa who does this it's the other Northern Loads including the young girl who is head of house mormont. I suspect Sansa and Little finger won't like this but will play along with it. All the the spoilers on the internet I read are saying that Sansa will crown Jon king in the north, LF and and all the northern lords will try to convince Sansa to become lady on winterfell because she is the only heir present there, but she will give up her right to Jon and make him the king, and LF will not like that, there is no such thing like what you are saying!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQCStargaryen Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 No, Sansa will not legitimize Jon, but he will be crowned king in the north. At this point a line of succession is irrelevant. Jon has proven himself to be the leader the north needs and so he will be crowned as such, as a bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helter skelter Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I dont think jon being a bastard is an important issue. There can be a lot options if the writers want jon to be king. true heir bran might show up and declare jon as king. sansa might give up her claim to release north from baelish's debt. northern lords might gather a great council and elect jon as their king. jon might claim himself king in the north by conquest right. a will of robb stark might appear from nowhere. many options can be found but i dont think jon will give a shit. He will not care which title he will have. The only thing that matters is uniting north before the walker invasion and we all know who will lead north in the long night. and in episode 10 trailer, davos bring mel to jon for justice. I am pretty sure he seeks for a kings justice not a bastards justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasDirewolf Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 24 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said: All the the spoilers on the internet I read are saying that Sansa will crown Jon king in the north, LF and and all the northern lords will try to convince Sansa to become lady on winterfell because she is the only heir present there, but she will give up her right to Jon and make him the king, and LF will not like that, there is no such thing like what you are saying!!!! Where are you guys finding these spoilers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnowed Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 27 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said: All the the spoilers on the internet I read are saying that Sansa will crown Jon king in the north, LF and and all the northern lords will try to convince Sansa to become lady on winterfell because she is the only heir present there, but she will give up her right to Jon and make him the king, and LF will not like that, there is no such thing like what you are saying!!!! I would suggest you only pay attention to the stuff which has come from Truede, everything he has leaked has been 100% accurate. He has said Jon is pronounced King in the North and it's Lyanna Mormont who suggests it and the other Northern Lords agree, give their support and apologise for not backing him sooner . Sansa apparently agrees with this and Glovers/Manderleys are involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnowed Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, TexasDirewolf said: Where are you guys finding these spoilers? Google Truede leaks Reddit that should get you want you want, he was 100% correct about many things but has not given too much away for the final episode other than Jon and a lot of death in Kings Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, JonSnowed said: Sansa apparently agrees with this and Glovers/Manderleys are involved. Another case of the extreme favoritism of game of thrones for some characters, first we kill Rickon because he's barring the road to KitN and then we put aside Sansa, the rightful heir because she's a girl only to put a bastard/targaryen as a King on winterfell and you have Stannis killed like a sheep, and people are saying that anyone can be killed in the story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Pretty much anyone can be named a King, look how Robb was named King. What matters is what power is associated with it to back it up. Jons "army" if you call it his, is pretty much decimated. Maybe a few hundred remain, and they only agreed to fight because the Boltons threatened to kill all of them including the women and children. He has no men or army, hell Sansa has no men or army. The Knights of the Vale are Lord Aryns army, if they were to leave there is no one left to rule the north. I would expect a call to all the northern houses to come to Winterfell happens early in the episode and something would happen from that. They all have to be made aware of the Nights King coming with his army and that they have to unite to stop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanïelNorth Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Sansa will help Jon become KiTN. First of all because they will follow Jon since he is just like Ned. (Everybody saw him racing honorably to save Rickon) Second of all because he has shown that he can be easily manipulated, which she will use to her advantage and probably explain her actions to littlefinger this way. That she cares about him doesn't mean she won't use him to her own end. (Remember their conversations at Castle Black?) I wonder what her next move is, and thus Jon's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noveson Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 hour ago, The Bad Wolf said: Only a king can legitimize. A Lord can ask him to do so, just like Roose asked the Crown for legitimacy for Ramsay and King Tommen allowed it. In book!canon it is speculated that Robb, as King in the North, legitimized Jon in his will before the RW. I don't recall such will in TV Show. Sansa can't become a Queen, because she was married to Tyrion and Ramsay (plus the latter consummated the marriage), so she can't legitimize him. Since Rickon is dead, only Bran could do it. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if northern lords declared Jon a Stark and a King because reasons.. there were dumber things in this show already. On the other hand... if northern lords agreed on Stannis as their king... couldn't Davos do it? After all he is Hand of the King. And dumber things in the book as well according to your thinking. At the end of the day everything goes out the window when it people decide it to. Look at how many people followed Renly. If Jon decides to declare himself King in the North people will follow him, and that's the important thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Perkis Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Just now, Noveson said: And dumber things in the book as well according to your thinking. At the end of the day everything goes out the window when it people decide it to. Look at how many people followed Renly. If Jon decides to declare himself King in the North people will follow him, and that's the important thing. I don't quite see how that was a dumb thing. Tyrells have daughter marry him and they arguably know son is fondling him at night. So, the Tyrells moved into a power position and their Lords followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noveson Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Just now, Soccer69 said: I don't quite see how that was a dumb thing. Tyrells have daughter marry him and they arguably know son is fondling him at night. So, the Tyrells moved into a power position and their Lords followed. I don't think it was dumb at all, makes complete sense to me. Just commenting on the person I replied to thinking that northern lords declaring Jon a king would be dumb. I think there's precedence in the books already. Sure Jon's a bastard, but Ramsey got legitimized by a king, and if they aren't following any king right now then the hell with it right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Perkis Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Just now, Noveson said: I don't think it was dumb at all, makes complete sense to me. Just commenting on the person I replied to thinking that northern lords declaring Jon a king would be dumb. I think there's precedence in the books already. Sure Jon's a bastard, but Ramsey got legitimized by a king, and if they aren't following any king right now then the hell with it right? Got ya. I don't remember where in the history book it was but when the Targaryens ruled and the most notable Lords met and elected the next King because there was no clear heir seems to be applicable here. Sansa (Lannister/Bolton) and Jon (Stark/bastard), and there isn't really anyone else. So, I figure we have a vote on the whole thing. I just hope the two actually start working together. Sansa is beginning to remove emotions from her decisions and moving forward in the game. Jon still acts on emotions which is what we seem to enjoy out of the guy. So, the two together seem to complete each other in the battles going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumy Stark Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 hour ago, helter skelter said: many options can be found but i dont think jon will give a shit. He will not care which title he will have. The only thing that matters is uniting north before the walker invasion and we all know who will lead north in the long night. and in episode 10 trailer, davos bring mel to jon for justice. I am pretty sure he seeks for a kings justice not a bastards justice. Oh good point about Davos. Jon is definitely being treated as the leader in that scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 2 hours ago, The Bad Wolf said: Sansa can't become a Queen, because she was married to Tyrion and Ramsay (plus the latter consummated the marriage), so she can't legitimize him. I'm sorry, but where in the rulebook does it say that a girl who's not been f*cked (in a marriage bed) and then later a girl that has been f*cked (in a marriage bed) cannot become a queen? Mark it down and give a copy to Dany... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Iona said: I'm sorry, but where in the rulebook does it say that a girl who's not been f*cked (in a marriage bed) and then later a girl that has been f*cked (in a marriage bed) cannot become a queen? Mark it down and give a copy to Dany... Agreed, it doesn't matter at all. That's why the Lannisters married her off to Tyrion in the first place, so that they might use her claims and eventually rule the north through her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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