Which Season 6 events do you think are book events? (Spoilers)

[The Drunkard]

Probably not much. The showrunners themselves keep saying that the changes will increase and build off each other, and that the show and books will diverge further. Don't see why some people are so desperate to think that they'll mirror each other.

[Lord Varys]

18 minutes ago, dbunting said:

So basically everyone else's opinions and guesses are wrong and all of yours are right, cool.

You can state your opinion, too, I guess. I'm not standing with a gun behind you and try to prevent you...

[Little Scribe of Naath]

13 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Her wearing a glamor to change her appearance certainly might be the case. But the way glamors works in the books actually makes it very unlikely that Mel is a fat old hag with sagging breasts. Stannis (or anybody else) touching them would have felt the difference. Glamors are basically visually and auditory illusions not actual transformations.

That's a good point. However, we do not know the full details of how glamouring (or Mel's magic) works, in any case. So we don't have enough information to guess how this plot point is going to play out, if at all.

15 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

 

At least in part. There will only be a resurrection of his body. His spirit will be in Ghost and therefore not *really* have been dead. But they cut the whole second life for skinchangers thing from the show. If you ask me Jon's death and resurrection has no meaning in the show at all.

I am in the camp that believes Jon will not be resurrected until atleast halfway through TWOW... he will be in Ghost for some time. I think this is why Melisandre was introduced as a POV in ADWD, to tell us what is happening at the Wall in the immediate aftermath of his death.

I completely agree that there has been absolutely no meaning to Jon's resurrection in the show. It's as if he overslept a bit and woke up.

18 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I can see that happening with Hodor and Meera somehow desperately trying to defend the Black Gate beneath the Wall from the Others. That would make a great scene in the books.

Coldhands mentions that there is a back door for the Children's cave, in ADWD. But I don't think it will happen in the cave either, for the simple reason that it is logistically impossible for just Meera to drag Bran down south (unless Coldhands appears with another elk )

23 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Most likely not. Bran is no use as a traveling guy in the books. And realism forbids it that he is ever going to travel back to the Wall in the middle of winter. He barely got to the cave in autumn.

The show might combine Bran's and Rickon's book story in some fashion (considering that they killed Rickon in a way he is not possibly going to die in the books) using Bran for that. In the books Rickon certainly is going to be brought in as some sort of Stark pretender. Something that Bran might do in the show if he ever gets back south again.

No, I think there is something rotten going on in that cave with BR and the Children. Old Nan said it right, "All crows are liars". 

I think Bran will find out something that will cause them to leave the cave (if I had to bet, it would be something related to Jojen's book fate). 

I doubt the show is going to do any kind of battle for the North again. Bran's immediate concern now (with this whole "mark" business) is dealing with the Others. I also presume that he will be the one to tell Jon about his parentage in the books, in person.

29 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The details will be different and much more, well, detailed, but in essence that's very likely. Not sure about the dragonglass angle there, nor am I sure that all the Children were on board with the Others plan back then. In fact, if some faction of the Children created the Others then those people might still be around directing the Others rather some dark lord Night King guy (who doesn't exist in the books at all).

The idea that the Others would attack the Children, too, is also a little bit of a stretch I think. The Children would have been foolish to have made them in a way to turn against them and there are no hints that the Others can wightify dead Children.

Yes, I think all we can say about this plot point at the moment is that it is likely that the COTF created the Others. There is too much mystery in the books concerning the Others and Northern magic, history,etc. for anything else the show gave us to be true.

In the show, they are going for generic "Dark Lord (Night's King)" who has to be defeated, to keep things simple. 

36 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Yeah, but certainly not the way it was depicted in the show.

This absolutely cannot happen the way it did in the show, as Dany is not fireproof (GRRM's own words). It is also doubtful that Dany heads directly back to Meereen after conquering the Dothraki. I think she might first go to Volantis and the other free cities, but that's only a guess.

39 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Nope. Aegon will be the poster boy of the sparrows, not their servant/tool. The High Septon in the books is much different from the guy in the show, and he is only giving his long-winded and boring speeches for two seasons now because the show has decided to pass the time with pointless conversation and plotting that leads to nowhere when they decided to cut the Aegon plot.

In the books the rise of the Faith and the fallout between the Lannisters and Tyrells is just a means to an end - Aegon's rise to the throne. That became apparent in ADwD. Aegon allying with the Faith will help (him) unite the Realm against Daenerys, though. The High Septon most certainly won't suffer an incest-born Queen Regnant on the Iron Throne who might not even follow the Seven.

The whole Faith puppet king story is a complete show invention spun from the idea that Tommen is actually a meek character. He is not. He is a pawn in the books, and nothing he says, does, or decrees matters because he is just an eight-year-old.

That was actually my meaning as well, it probably didn't come across properly! Tommen is not long for the world, in the books. I completely agree that  Aegon is set up to be the "golden boy" of Westeros, freeing the realm from the nuisance of the Lannisters and Tyrells. He will ally with the Faith to gain favor with the commonfolk of KL and sit on the IT for a while, until Dany comes along with her horde of Dothraki, Ironborn,etc.

The wildcard in all of this is Euron, though, as well as Cersei (after Tommen has fallen). The show hinted last week that Dany might ally with Yara (a stand in for Victarion). We probably need to wait and see what Euron's got up his sleeve.

I also believe, looking at Sansa's plot over the last two seasons, that she and the Vale might have a crucial role in the DoD 2.0. Since they have cut that from the show, they had to invent something for her to do.

46 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I'd say the show wanted to give us this bastard confrontation the Pink Letter suggested in ADwD (right before the assassination). Thus they actually killed Stannis to make it this way while George's plans there might be completely different. Roose/Ramsay might even get away from Winterfell after they lose the battle but they will also lose the North in the process. In the end Stannis is doomed, of course, but he might still stick around for quite some time. Especially because of the whole Shireen thing.

Again, a pure guess here, but I think Stannis is being set up to be driven to a desperate disappointment in the books. I think he might be the one to free Winterfell from Boltons, but the Northern Lords won't agree (with Winter coming) to march south to help him take the IT. With Jon's resurrection, Melisandre will also switch sides and proclaim Jon as AA.  Davos will take his time retrieving Rickon from Skagos, so Stannis might be at a point where he feels he has no allies.

I don't think he will die though, I believe he will become the next Night's King. 

Again, all of the above is my opinion, GRRM will knock us all out with twists I bet 

[zorkman]

19 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

 

Again, a pure guess here, but I think Stannis is being set up to be driven to a desperate disappointment in the books. I think he might be the one to free Winterfell from Boltons, but the Northern Lords won't agree (with Winter coming) to march south to help him take the IT. With Jon's resurrection, Melisandre will also switch sides and proclaim Jon as AA.  Davos will take his time retrieving Rickon from Skagos, so Stannis might be at a point where he feels he has no allies.

I don't think he will die though, I believe he will become the next Night's King. 

Again, all of the above is my opinion, GRRM will knock us all out with twists I bet 

He has also sent Justin Massey to Braavos to buy an army of 20,000 sellswords, so it is possible he will have a new army to go south.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

16 minutes ago, zorkman said:

He has also sent Justin Massey to Braavos to buy an army of 20,000 sellswords, so it is possible he will have a new army to go south.

Which may not actually work out. He has to first go to the Wall with fArya, IIRC. That place is going to be a clusterfuck in TWOW.

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

I am in the camp that believes Jon will not be resurrected until atleast halfway through TWOW... he will be in Ghost for some time. I think this is why Melisandre was introduced as a POV in ADWD, to tell us what is happening at the Wall in the immediate aftermath of his death.

That is not unlikely, actually, considering how much is going to go on early on in TWoW in other places. And then George will have to catch up with other characters before turning to the Jon Snow problem.

I expect more chaos and actually fighting at the Wall, too. Melisandre most likely will play a very crucial role in restoring order at Castle Black and at the Wall in general. She is not going to buy the Pink Letter and her chapter introduced us to all those powders she has in that chest of hers one of which is a very deadly poison. I could easily see Marsh and company meeting with her to talk about some things and never leaving the chamber alive (or something of that sort). In addition, there is the fact that her magic is very strong at the Wall, so we might even see some new shadow assassin or something of that sort.

She clearly will be the POV for that crucial time although I also expect at least one or two Ghost chapters.

2 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Coldhands mentions that there is a back door for the Children's cave, in ADWD. But I don't think it will happen in the cave either, for the simple reason that it is logistically impossible for just Meera to drag Bran down south (unless Coldhands appears with another elk )

Yeah, I know that there is a back door but Bran's chapters informed us how much snow has been falling since he arrived at the cave not the mention that days are growing shorter. The idea that they could evade/escape from the Others outside of the cave is just completely unbelievable to me. Not in the middle of winter.

2 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

No, I think there is something rotten going on in that cave with BR and the Children. Old Nan said it right, "All crows are liars". 

I think Bran will find out something that will cause them to leave the cave (if I had to bet, it would be something related to Jojen's book fate).

I guess that's not going to be so complicated. Jojen, Meera, and Hodor will eventually leave the cave and try to get back in the North, possibly because they have to relay some message or do something. But Bran will stay behind. The Children certainly have some dark secrets but Bran will uncover them. And he might become a lot darker, too, considering the hints how a greenseer acquires power (through blood sacrifices to the trees and stuff). 

2 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

I doubt the show is going to do any kind of battle for the North again. Bran's immediate concern now (with this whole "mark" business) is dealing with the Others. I also presume that he will be the one to tell Jon about his parentage in the books, in person.

I don't think that at all. Bran should acquire the power to talk through the weirwoods and thus directly interact with people. But that might actually be very difficult at Castle Black where there are no weirwoods.

2 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

This absolutely cannot happen the way it did in the show, as Dany is not fireproof (GRRM's own words). It is also doubtful that Dany heads directly back to Meereen after conquering the Dothraki. I think she might first go to Volantis and the other free cities, but that's only a guess.

Don't would be a weird diversion. If Dany controls all the khalasars she might simply sent various khals to Qohor, Norvos, Pentos, Myr, and Volantis to attack them while returning with the greater part of her strength to Slaver's Bay. I think we can all expect Dany to take over Volantis and this would work very fine (and quickly) if whatever tiger soldiers that remained behind at Volantis were distracted by a Dothraki attack overland when Dany finally shows up with her huge fleet. The Free Cities have no way of learning that Daenerys has united the Dothraki under her rule until it is too late for them.

2 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

That was actually my meaning as well, it probably didn't come across properly! Tommen is not long for the world, in the books. I completely agree that  Aegon is set up to be the "golden boy" of Westeros, freeing the realm from the nuisance of the Lannisters and Tyrells. He will ally with the Faith to gain favor with the commonfolk of KL and sit on the IT for a while, until Dany comes along with her horde of Dothraki, Ironborn,etc.

The wildcard in all of this is Euron, though, as well as Cersei (after Tommen has fallen). The show hinted last week that Dany might ally with Yara (a stand in for Victarion). We probably need to wait and see what Euron's got up his sleeve.

Sure, there is a lot of stuff we cannot foresee. It might turn out that Euron topples Aegon after he has taken the throne, or that he attacks and takes the city in Aegon's absence (say, because Aegon is forced to march against the Lannisters or fight against a portion of Euron's Ironborn in the Reach).

But the Second Dance concept in general suggests that Aegon will remain an important player until Dany's arrival at least.

2 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

I also believe, looking at Sansa's plot over the last two seasons, that she and the Vale might have a crucial role in the DoD 2.0. Since they have cut that from the show, they had to invent something for her to do.

That is certainly a possibility and actually much more likely than her going North. The Northern plot Littlefinger suggests to her is a longterm plot for next spring. It is not something they would want to pull off in the middle of winter. They couldn't possibly do that.

2 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Again, a pure guess here, but I think Stannis is being set up to be driven to a desperate disappointment in the books. I think he might be the one to free Winterfell from Boltons, but the Northern Lords won't agree (with Winter coming) to march south to help him take the IT. With Jon's resurrection, Melisandre will also switch sides and proclaim Jon as AA.  Davos will take his time retrieving Rickon from Skagos, so Stannis might be at a point where he feels he has no allies.

I don't think he will die though, I believe he will become the next Night's King. 

Again, all of the above is my opinion, GRRM will knock us all out with twists I bet 

Stannis gives no indication that he wants to march down south after he has defeated the Boltons. He has no chance to conquer the Iron Throne with the troops he has, it is winter (a bad season for war), and he actually takes his duty to defend the Realm against the Others seriously. He gives no indication that he wants the sellswords Massey is supposed to hire for him to invade Westeros down in the South (say, the Stormlands, as Aegon just did). He wants them to man and defend the Wall.

If the Boltons are defeated then all Stannis most likely will do is to secure the North against Southern invasion (i.e. garrison Moat Cailin). But that should be it, really.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

@Lord Varys

I agree it will be tough for Bran to leave the Cave in Winter. But I don't think Meera and Hodor will leave the cave without Bran. Considering Jojen's attitude in ADWD, I think he has seen his death coming in that cave and it is not going to be pretty. Doubt that Meera would want to stay in the cave after that, and she wouldn't leave Bran alone there with the COTF. But I could be wrong.

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Don't would be a weird diversion. If Dany controls all the khalasars she might simply sent various khals to Qohor, Norvos, Pentos, Myr, and Volantis to attack them while returning with the greater part of her strength to Slaver's Bay. I think we can all expect Dany to take over Volantis and this would work very fine (and quickly) if whatever tiger soldiers that remained behind at Volantis were distracted by a Dothraki attack overland when Dany finally shows up with her huge fleet. The Free Cities have no way of learning that Daenerys has united the Dothraki under her rule until it is too late for them.

I hope this happens as it will make Dany's conquest move along much faster. GRRM has said that she will spend most of TWOW with the Dothraki, however.

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Stannis gives no indication that he wants to march down south after he has defeated the Boltons. He has no chance to conquer the Iron Throne with the troops he has, it is winter (a bad season for war), and he actually takes his duty to defend the Realm against the Others seriously. He gives no indication that he wants the sellswords Massey is supposed to hire for him to invade Westeros down in the South (say, the Stormlands, as Aegon just did). He wants them to man and defend the Wall.

If the Boltons are defeated then all Stannis most likely will do is to secure the North against Southern invasion (i.e. garrison Moat Cailin). But that should be it, really.

Spoiler

In the TWOW Theon sample chapter, doesn't Stannis tell Justin Massey to seat his daughter on the throne if he dies in the attempt?

It is possible he may decide to first deal with the upcoming Winter rather than go South, but there is no evidence currently to say which way he'll go.

As for other events in the show:

- Ramsay will not kill Roose. There is no chance that any of the northern lords would support the Boltons if Roose dies. Lady Dustin hates him, Manderly's are about to defect anyway, and his only supporters, the Freys, will be decimated at the Battle of Ice. Roose is also way too clever for him in the books.

- Doran might die in TWOW, but probably at the hands of Euron if he attacks Dorne after the Reach, not in the nonsensical way it went down in the show.

- I am not certain that Rickon will die. I think the "Shaggydog" aspect of his story refers more to Davos' mission to retrieve him, which will not be as easy as we expect. He might get derailed, the Skagosi might refuse to let Rickon go, or Rickon himself might not want to come back, any number of possibilities.

- Trial by combat has not been outlawed in the books, so Cersei will have her trial (and most probably win). I think she might use wildfire to burn down some part of KL though, probably towards the end of TWOW.

- I do think the Tyrells are all doomed in TWOW, but the manner of their death will be very different.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Benjen’s life was saved by the Children from an otherwise mortal wound inflicted by one of the ice swords of the Others using the same sort of magic as created Coldhands and the Others in the first place.  But for their help he would have died and become a wight like the other two rangers, but instead he lives to save Bran using fire magic learned from the Children. He cannot return to Castle Black because the Wall blocks the Children's magic from penetrating.

I cannot believe noöne else has mentioned this yet.

[Lord Varys]

10 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

@Lord Varys

I agree it will be tough for Bran to leave the Cave in Winter. But I don't think Meera and Hodor will leave the cave without Bran. Considering Jojen's attitude in ADWD, I think he has seen his death coming in that cave and it is not going to be pretty. Doubt that Meera would want to stay in the cave after that, and she wouldn't leave Bran alone there with the COTF. But I could be wrong.

The problem with that really is that the show completely dropped the ball on making Bran's time with Bloodraven interesting. In the books we just got one chapter with them together yet, and there are a lot of hints that Bran will be able to do more in the books than just look into the past - we have him actually speak through the weirwoods and being heard (Theon) as well as beginning to talk sense through the ravens.

There might be other things can do while he is the cave and directly in contact with the weirwoods. A big hint in that direction comes from the first Asha chapter in ADwD where she remembers stories that the greenseers of old apparently could make the trees fight for them. I think we might see 'nature' joining the fight against the Boltons/Freys in the book version of the Battle of Ice. 

10 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

I hope this happens as it will make Dany's conquest move along much faster. GRRM has said that she will spend most of TWOW with the Dothraki, however.

That is sort of a given due to the structure of the book. Dany's Dragonstone wouldn't be anywhere near Vaes Dothrak, so she and Khal Jhaqo will have a long way ahead of them, and George isn't the kind of guy to just skip travel time. There could easily be 3-4 Dany chapters covering their journey to Vaes Dothrak, and then it should take quite some time for her to take over the Dothraki.

What's going to happen there will be completely different, though. TWoIaF gave us a hint in the history of the Dothraki. We learn that the first khal to unite all Dothraki during the Century of Blood was Mengo, the son of the witch queen Doshi. Now, Doshi's name clearly is the origin of the name dosh khaleen and while the khal system quickly fractured the dosh khaleen at Vaes Dothrak remained the spiritual leaders of all the Dothraki. If they pronounce Daenerys their leader then there is little chance that this is not going to be accepted.

And there is, of course, Drogon to be considered. The Dothraki seem to culturally very much in awe of dragons. We learn this historically from the example of Khal Dhako who liked to be called 'the Dragon of the North' as well as from Drogo's desire to marry the last Targaryen princess. Considering that Westeros was nothing to the Dothraki it must have been Dany's Valyrian ancestry that triggered his interest.

10 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

  Hide contents

In the TWOW Theon sample chapter, doesn't Stannis tell Justin Massey to seat his daughter on the throne if he dies in the attempt?

It is possible he may decide to first deal with the upcoming Winter rather than go South, but there is no evidence currently to say which way he'll go.

I understand this as a reference to his ultimate mission, not necessarily what he wants Massey to do right now. Stannis could only hope to try to conquer the South if he completely depleted the North of the few men it still got. That would be insane in light of the threat of the Others, and he knows that. A lot of people are going to die in the coming battles, too, so whatever remains will be of little use even to defend the Wall.

As for other events in the show:

- Ramsay will not kill Roose. There is no chance that any of the northern lords would support the Boltons if Roose dies. Lady Dustin hates him, Manderly's are about to defect anyway, and his only supporters, the Freys, will be decimated at the Battle of Ice. Roose is also way too clever for him in the books.

Roose could still die, though. However, that would then inevitable the beginning of Ramsay's quick and ignominious end. That's the reason why I don't think that's going to happen. Just as I think that Roose had Ramsay write the Pink Letter rather than write it himself because he thought Ramsay the Bastard would be better at intimidating people. He let/had him write the earlier more carefully crafted intimidation letters, too.

And the Pink Letter might actually have been written before there were any battles. All the verified information in there comes either from Mance or one of the surviving spear wives. I don't think Roose is going to necessarily predecease Ramsay. I really think the show just wanted to play up Ramsay as they continuously did since they introduced him.

10 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

- Doran might die in TWOW, but probably at the hands of Euron if he attacks Dorne after the Reach, not in the nonsensical way it went down in the show.

Yeah, I suggested that Euron might move next against Sunspear rather than Oldtown especially if he learns that Aegon exists and that Dorne has declared for him. However, whether that's going result in Doran's death is by no means clear. Sunspear isn't exactly defenseless nor has Doran Martell sent many of his own men to the armies in the Mountains. They have about 20,000 men up there, and Dorne's full strength is 30,000+.

10 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

- I am not certain that Rickon will die. I think the "Shaggydog" aspect of his story refers more to Davos' mission to retrieve him, which will not be as easy as we expect. He might get derailed, the Skagosi might refuse to let Rickon go, or Rickon himself might not want to come back, any number of possibilities.

Sure, they will get adventures of their own, most likely. And Rickon might not survive the series, but he certainly will *never* become a Bolton hostage. Although I really hope he is not going to die.

10 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

- Trial by combat has not been outlawed in the books, so Cersei will have her trial (and most probably win). I think she might use wildfire to burn down some part of KL though, probably towards the end of TWOW.

I'm not sure we'll see Cersei using the wildfire, if this comes up at all in the books. I mean, most of the old fruits of Aerys II who were found by various people have already been handed over to pyromancers (those beneath the Great Sept and the Dragonpit) and were subsequently destroyed on the Blackwater. If there is still a stash of wildfire beneath the Red Keep then Varys controls that, not Qyburn or Cersei.

It might be that Aegon ends up burning down KL rather than handing it to Euron or Daenerys, or it might be that Euron meets his death this way (capturing the Red Keep only to die in some wildfire inferno).

In the books Cersei has little chance to remain in KL for long, I think, because the Faith, the Tyrells, and Aegon all want her dead. Kevan is no longer there to protect her in the books, and she will be not inclined to play nice with Mace and Tarly after they murdered Pycelle and her uncle (which is what she's going to believe). And if there is a trial-by-combat and her champion is revealed to be some sort of undead monster then this is at least going to cause some sort of scandal. The worst possible scenario is that the High Septon is going to declare it null and void because Cersei was using black magic as a means to deceive or insult the Seven. That would then be pretty much the end of everything in KL because if Cersei is found guilty Tommen and Myrcella will be bastards, and then everything will be lost both for the Lannisters and the Tyrells.

Not to mention that if there is a trial-by-combat in the books (which is very likely but not guaranteed, actually, because Mace/Tarly could simply accuse Cersei of murdering Pycelle/Kevan and use that as pretext to arrest her and conduct their own trial against her (which could take precedence over any trials the Faith is going to conduct). Not to mention that Mace controlling Tommen could also outlaw trials-by-combat the same way show Tommen did.

In fact, I think the relationship between Tommen's administration and the Faith in the books will quickly deteriorate after Mace and Tarly decide to go through with their plan to have Tommen proclaim Margaery's innocence.

10 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

- I do think the Tyrells are all doomed in TWOW, but the manner of their death will be very different.

Not sure about that, really. Some might die, but George has hinted that Willas will finally show up and play an important role so I don't think he'll die quickly. There are so many Tyrells in the books that the idea of them all dying is huge stretch. Mace and/or Margaery might die, but even that is not clear. If Mace eventually handed over the Red Keep to Aegon things could go reasonably fine for him.

I must say I'm both underwhelmed and pissed by the way the show played Ser Robert Strong. The guy should be a Terminator-like monster. Why didn't she use him yet to actually murder her enemies? In the books there is a very strong chance that Cersei will might (eventually) use Ser Robert to murder Mace, Tarly, Margaery or to break Tommen out of Maegor's Holdfast.

5 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Benjen’s life was saved by the Children from an otherwise mortal wound inflicted by one of the ice swords of the Others using the same sort of magic as created Coldhands and the Others in the first place.  But for their help he would have died and become a wight like the other two rangers, but instead he lives to save Bran using fire magic learned from the Children. He cannot return to Castle Black because the Wall blocks the Children's magic from penetrating.

I cannot believe noöne else has mentioned this yet.

I actually don't buy that. I think this was just a late introduction of Coldhands and the show chose to merge him and Benjen Stark. I'm pretty sure Benjen is still alive in the books in some fashion but he isn't Coldhands nor do I think it likely that he is another version of Coldhands.

[Gdawg007]

20 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Her wearing a glamor to change her appearance certainly might be the case. But the way glamors works in the books actually makes it very unlikely that Mel is a fat old hag with sagging breasts. Stannis (or anybody else) touching them would have felt the difference. Glamors are basically visually and auditory illusions not actual transformations.

At least in part. There will only be a resurrection of his body. His spirit will be in Ghost and therefore not *really* have been dead. But they cut the whole second life for skinchangers thing from the show. If you ask me Jon's death and resurrection has no meaning in the show at all.

I can see that happening with Hodor and Meera somehow desperately trying to defend the Black Gate beneath the Wall from the Others. That would make a great scene in the books.

Most likely not. Bran is no use as a traveling guy in the books. And realism forbids it that he is ever going to travel back to the Wall in the middle of winter. He barely got to the cave in autumn.

The show might combine Bran's and Rickon's book story in some fashion (considering that they killed Rickon in a way he is not possibly going to die in the books) using Bran for that. In the books Rickon certainly is going to be brought in as some sort of Stark pretender. Something that Bran might do in the show if he ever gets back south again.

The details will be different and much more, well, detailed, but in essence that's very likely. Not sure about the dragonglass angle there, nor am I sure that all the Children were on board with the Others plan back then. In fact, if some faction of the Children created the Others then those people might still be around directing the Others rather some dark lord Night King guy (who doesn't exist in the books at all).

The idea that the Others would attack the Children, too, is also a little bit of a stretch I think. The Children would have been foolish to have made them in a way to turn against them and there are no hints that the Others can wightify dead Children.

Yeah, but certainly not the way it was depicted in the show.

Nope. Aegon will be the poster boy of the sparrows, not their servant/tool. The High Septon in the books is much different from the guy in the show, and he is only giving his long-winded and boring speeches for two seasons now because the show has decided to pass the time with pointless conversation and plotting that leads to nowhere when they decided to cut the Aegon plot.

In the books the rise of the Faith and the fallout between the Lannisters and Tyrells is just a means to an end - Aegon's rise to the throne. That became apparent in ADwD. Aegon allying with the Faith will help (him) unite the Realm against Daenerys, though. The High Septon most certainly won't suffer an incest-born Queen Regnant on the Iron Throne who might not even follow the Seven.

The whole Faith puppet king story is a complete show invention spun from the idea that Tommen is actually a meek character. He is not. He is a pawn in the books, and nothing he says, does, or decrees matters because he is just an eight-year-old.

I'd say the show wanted to give us this bastard confrontation the Pink Letter suggested in ADwD (right before the assassination). Thus they actually killed Stannis to make it this way while George's plans there might be completely different. Roose/Ramsay might even get away from Winterfell after they lose the battle but they will also lose the North in the process. In the end Stannis is doomed, of course, but he might still stick around for quite some time. Especially because of the whole Shireen thing.

Nope, Ramsay raping and marrying Sansa wasn't particularly interesting. However, I must say I really enjoyed her revenge story this season on a 'fan fiction level'. Aside from the ridiculous 'I don't mention the troops I have' plot.

Tyrion trying to be funny is not much of a plot, either. Most of his scenes this season were a waste of time, really.

Two things.

1. Martin's plot concerning the NIght's Watch and opposing Jon's plan to let in the Wildlings is the worst plot device I've seen in a while.  It makes zero sense to let the White Walkers have access to thousands of more corpses.  Given the evidence that is apparent, this entire conflict was cooked up to kill Jon Snow and warg him into Ghost.  Warging into Ghost will not be any more meaningful than what the show did.  In fact, I suspect Martin will use it as a means for Jon to learn of things he wouldn't have learned of while in his own body.  And when he's brought back to his body, he will be armed with knowledge he didn't have before appearing to fulfill prophecy perhaps.  But that's just as weak.  I'm also not looking forward to chapter after chapter of Jon running around as Ghost. 

 

2.  Rickon in the books appears to be headed to Winterfell.  I would wager that deaths of characters who have the potential to be kings or lord paramount falls under the category of major plot points that Martin discussed with the showrunners.  So, Rickon can still die albeit under different circumstances that I agree probably won't involve the Boltons.  However, on the TV show, we already knows the Boltons, know they aren't fans of the Starks, and thus accelerating Rickon's demise at their hands makes sense from a production standpoint.  Being faithful to the book was likely too expensive and unnecessary given even in the books and especially on the show, we hardly know Rickon. 

 

It's becoming popular to pick on the show, but frankly most of these criticisms are unfounded.  Yes, they cut plot lines and simplified.  They have to, it's TV.  Martin's books are at times overly complex and frankly there is as much filler in them to get to 7 books as there was filler in any of the seasons of game of thrones.  The past seasons were quite boring by comparison to season six.  People need to actually rewatch season 1.  It was full of filler.  Conversation after conversation, some of which appeared to have no bearing during the season came back in later seasons or never at all.  It was a means to get to the removal of Ned's head, that's it.  Because that was the point of the first book.  The many branching story lines of the later books was an indulgence afforded Martin as the books began to sell and the TV show fueled what's going on right here on these forums. 

[Lord Varys]

19 minutes ago, Gdawg007 said:

Two things.

1. Martin's plot concerning the NIght's Watch and opposing Jon's plan to let in the Wildlings is the worst plot device I've seen in a while.  It makes zero sense to let the White Walkers have access to thousands of more corpses.  Given the evidence that is apparent, this entire conflict was cooked up to kill Jon Snow and warg him into Ghost.  Warging into Ghost will not be any more meaningful than what the show did.  In fact, I suspect Martin will use it as a means for Jon to learn of things he wouldn't have learned of while in his own body.  And when he's brought back to his body, he will be armed with knowledge he didn't have before appearing to fulfill prophecy perhaps.  But that's just as weak.  I'm also not looking forward to chapter after chapter of Jon running around as Ghost. 

I don't expect anything like that, actually. Hanging around in a wolf isn't some sort of magical oracle. I expect his death to have major repercussions at the Wall (civil war/actual violence/end of the alliances Jon Snow has made) and his resurrection to have others, possibly in the 'You are very special/magical department'. I personally expect Jon to come back more savage and wolf-like considering that he will have spent days/weeks in Ghost without having been a properly trained skinchanger.

On metaphysical level, though, there is a strong difference between the random resurrection the show did and what George told us a return from the dead actually should entail. A severe change to come with a price. Dying and returning from the death isn't something you should go through unscathed.

And that is the reason why we get the skinchanger thing in the book which will make it clear that Jon's soul will never have been *dead* in any real sense of the word

19 minutes ago, Gdawg007 said:

2.  Rickon in the books appears to be headed to Winterfell.  I would wager that deaths of characters who have the potential to be kings or lord paramount falls under the category of major plot points that Martin discussed with the showrunners.  So, Rickon can still die albeit under different circumstances that I agree probably won't involve the Boltons.  However, on the TV show, we already knows the Boltons, know they aren't fans of the Starks, and thus accelerating Rickon's demise at their hands makes sense from a production standpoint.  Being faithful to the book was likely too expensive and unnecessary given even in the books and especially on the show, we hardly know Rickon. 

Rickon could have his own story in George's plans the showrunners just don't care about telling. And why should they? They don't need to do that if they don't want to. The show's Bran is leaving the cave and could possibly end up as the new Lord of Winterfell in the end in the show. A role that could go to Rickon in the books if Bran becomes tree guy in there.

I don't see Rickon going to Winterfell soon in the books. He is on Skagos and the closest way to Stannis/Jon Snow in the books would go to Eastwatch not down via ship to White Harbor again. Rickon would only go to Winterfell if any people supporting him or his claim actually were there.

19 minutes ago, Gdawg007 said:

It's becoming popular to pick on the show, but frankly most of these criticisms are unfounded.  Yes, they cut plot lines and simplified.  They have to, it's TV.  Martin's books are at times overly complex and frankly there is as much filler in them to get to 7 books as there was filler in any of the seasons of game of thrones.  The past seasons were quite boring by comparison to season six.  People need to actually rewatch season 1.  It was full of filler.  Conversation after conversation, some of which appeared to have no bearing during the season came back in later seasons or never at all.  It was a means to get to the removal of Ned's head, that's it.  Because that was the point of the first book.  The many branching story lines of the later books was an indulgence afforded Martin as the books began to sell and the TV show fueled what's going on right here on these forums. 

Actually, I found season 6 pretty much boring and full of filler, too. The whole Ramsay plot was filler because he doesn't matter. Arya going to Braavos seems to have been pointless in the show. Bran going to the cave was nothing but a plot device. King's Landing's story is going nowhere, and Tyrion/Varys was just Tyrion killing time and him sucking at politics.

[The Drunkard]

15 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

 

  Hide contents

In the TWOW Theon sample chapter, doesn't Stannis tell Justin Massey to seat his daughter on the throne if he dies in the attempt?

It is possible he may decide to first deal with the upcoming Winter rather than go South, but there is no evidence currently to say which way he'll go.

 

His biggest moment of character development is him coming to the realization that he needs to save the kingdom before he conquers the throne, do his duty before claiming his rights. He was trying to do the opposite on Dragonstone, and Davos convinced him otherwise. It wouldn't make sense for him to backtrack, especially after meeting with the watchmen and learning more about the severity of the threat posed by the Others.

We learn his general plan when he speaks with Jon and later Sam and the LC candidates. He wants all the castles garrisoned within a year, the defenders armed with fire and obsidian, and the north and wildlings united behind him. Taking Winterfell is part of that, and with the IB loan he can do the rest. 

Regarding what he said to Massey, he's just ensuring that the mercenaries come whatever happens. He believes he's Azor Ahai and the war for the dawn is riding on him, so if he is really dead then Shireen's got no shot at ruling anyway.

[Tastes like Frey]

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The problem with that really is that the show completely dropped the ball on making Bran's time with Bloodraven interesting. In the books we just got one chapter with them together yet, and there are a lot of hints that Bran will be able to do more in the books than just look into the past - we have him actually speak through the weirwoods and being heard (Theon) as well as beginning to talk sense through the ravens.

There might be other things can do while he is the cave and directly in contact with the weirwoods. A big hint in that direction comes from the first Asha chapter in ADwD where she remembers stories that the greenseers of old apparently could make the trees fight for them. I think we might see 'nature' joining the fight against the Boltons/Freys in the book version of the Battle of Ice. 

That is sort of a given due to the structure of the book. Dany's Dragonstone wouldn't be anywhere near Vaes Dothrak, so she and Khal Jhaqo will have a long way ahead of them, and George isn't the kind of guy to just skip travel time. There could easily be 3-4 Dany chapters covering their journey to Vaes Dothrak, and then it should take quite some time for her to take over the Dothraki.

What's going to happen there will be completely different, though. TWoIaF gave us a hint in the history of the Dothraki. We learn that the first khal to unite all Dothraki during the Century of Blood was Mengo, the son of the witch queen Doshi. Now, Doshi's name clearly is the origin of the name dosh khaleen and while the khal system quickly fractured the dosh khaleen at Vaes Dothrak remained the spiritual leaders of all the Dothraki. If they pronounce Daenerys their leader then there is little chance that this is not going to be accepted.

And there is, of course, Drogon to be considered. The Dothraki seem to culturally very much in awe of dragons. We learn this historically from the example of Khal Dhako who liked to be called 'the Dragon of the North' as well as from Drogo's desire to marry the last Targaryen princess. Considering that Westeros was nothing to the Dothraki it must have been Dany's Valyrian ancestry that triggered his interest.

Roose could still die, though. However, that would then inevitable the beginning of Ramsay's quick and ignominious end. That's the reason why I don't think that's going to happen. Just as I think that Roose had Ramsay write the Pink Letter rather than write it himself because he thought Ramsay the Bastard would be better at intimidating people. He let/had him write the earlier more carefully crafted intimidation letters, too.

And the Pink Letter might actually have been written before there were any battles. All the verified information in there comes either from Mance or one of the surviving spear wives. I don't think Roose is going to necessarily predecease Ramsay. I really think the show just wanted to play up Ramsay as they continuously did since they introduced him.

Yeah, I suggested that Euron might move next against Sunspear rather than Oldtown especially if he learns that Aegon exists and that Dorne has declared for him. However, whether that's going result in Doran's death is by no means clear. Sunspear isn't exactly defenseless nor has Doran Martell sent many of his own men to the armies in the Mountains. They have about 20,000 men up there, and Dorne's full strength is 30,000+.

Sure, they will get adventures of their own, most likely. And Rickon might not survive the series, but he certainly will *never* become a Bolton hostage. Although I really hope he is not going to die.

I'm not sure we'll see Cersei using the wildfire, if this comes up at all in the books. I mean, most of the old fruits of Aerys II who were found by various people have already been handed over to pyromancers (those beneath the Great Sept and the Dragonpit) and were subsequently destroyed on the Blackwater. If there is still a stash of wildfire beneath the Red Keep then Varys controls that, not Qyburn or Cersei.

It might be that Aegon ends up burning down KL rather than handing it to Euron or Daenerys, or it might be that Euron meets his death this way (capturing the Red Keep only to die in some wildfire inferno).

In the books Cersei has little chance to remain in KL for long, I think, because the Faith, the Tyrells, and Aegon all want her dead. Kevan is no longer there to protect her in the books, and she will be not inclined to play nice with Mace and Tarly after they murdered Pycelle and her uncle (which is what she's going to believe). And if there is a trial-by-combat and her champion is revealed to be some sort of undead monster then this is at least going to cause some sort of scandal. The worst possible scenario is that the High Septon is going to declare it null and void because Cersei was using black magic as a means to deceive or insult the Seven. That would then be pretty much the end of everything in KL because if Cersei is found guilty Tommen and Myrcella will be bastards, and then everything will be lost both for the Lannisters and the Tyrells.

Not to mention that if there is a trial-by-combat in the books (which is very likely but not guaranteed, actually, because Mace/Tarly could simply accuse Cersei of murdering Pycelle/Kevan and use that as pretext to arrest her and conduct their own trial against her (which could take precedence over any trials the Faith is going to conduct). Not to mention that Mace controlling Tommen could also outlaw trials-by-combat the same way show Tommen did.

In fact, I think the relationship between Tommen's administration and the Faith in the books will quickly deteriorate after Mace and Tarly decide to go through with their plan to have Tommen proclaim Margaery's innocence.

Not sure about that, really. Some might die, but George has hinted that Willas will finally show up and play an important role so I don't think he'll die quickly. There are so many Tyrells in the books that the idea of them all dying is huge stretch. Mace and/or Margaery might die, but even that is not clear. If Mace eventually handed over the Red Keep to Aegon things could go reasonably fine for him.

I must say I'm both underwhelmed and pissed by the way the show played Ser Robert Strong. The guy should be a Terminator-like monster. Why didn't she use him yet to actually murder her enemies? In the books there is a very strong chance that Cersei will might (eventually) use Ser Robert to murder Mace, Tarly, Margaery or to break Tommen out of Maegor's Holdfast.

I actually don't buy that. I think this was just a late introduction of Coldhands and the show chose to merge him and Benjen Stark. I'm pretty sure Benjen is still alive in the books in some fashion but he isn't Coldhands nor do I think it likely that he is another version of Coldhands.

In one of Bran's chapters in the first books, when Robb is hosting Yoren and receives news that Benjen is missing and probably dead, Bran shouts that the Children will save him and everyone laughs at him. It's because of this I'm fairly sure that that will remain the same in the book, although he may well be alive and not some semi-wight thing.

[Les Météores D]

The greatest denial is Sansa going to WF. It has been foreshadowed since the snow castle, there are countless threads about it. 

How will she go there? Magic surely.

[ErasmusF]

Great thread idea!

1. Shireen will be burned, but by Selyse, not Stannis. OK that's S5. 

2. Mel will be revealed to be really old (she already has, IMO). 

3. Mel will resurrect Jon, but after the traitors have been subdued by the Wildlings. Jon will hang the traitors. Jon will quit the NW. 

4. Dany will be taken to Vaes Dothrak and burn it down. But with Drogon. 

6. Dany will return to Mereen in time to rout the last of the Masters. 

7. Dolorous Edd will be the new LC. 

8. Sam will figure out there's nothing for him in Old Town, head to Horn Hill, his dad won't be there, so he leaves Gilly. He will run into his dad on the way back to the Wall. His dad will be marching to join fAegon. Sam will try to convince him to march North instead, to no avail. Sam will end up killing his dad and taking Heartsbane. 

9. Bran will have visions of Winterfell and the ToJ. He will see the mystery of the Isle of Faces. Lyanna strapping on armor, then returning to marry Rhaegar. Bran will see that the Children are responsible for creating the Others. 

10. Arya will continue to train with the FM, but refuse to kill an innocent. She won't leave on good terms, though. 

11. Margery will wend her way out of the High Sparrow's grasp. 

12. Littlefinger will march north with Sansa and the Vale army. 

[Little Scribe of Naath]

1 hour ago, The Drunkard said:

His biggest moment of character development is him coming to the realization that he needs to save the kingdom before he conquers the throne, do his duty before claiming his rights. He was trying to do the opposite on Dragonstone, and Davos convinced him otherwise. It wouldn't make sense for him to backtrack, especially after meeting with the watchmen and learning more about the severity of the threat posed by the Others.

We learn his general plan when he speaks with Jon and later Sam and the LC candidates. He wants all the castles garrisoned within a year, the defenders armed with fire and obsidian, and the north and wildlings united behind him. Taking Winterfell is part of that, and with the IB loan he can do the rest. 

 

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Regarding what he said to Massey, he's just ensuring that the mercenaries come whatever happens. He believes he's Azor Ahai and the war for the dawn is riding on him, so if he is really dead then Shireen's got no shot at ruling anyway.

 

This is actually what I believed before the Season 5 of the show. I also believed that Shireen's burning would take place at the hands of Melisandre for the resurrection of Jon. However, I am not so sure how things will play out now. From a meta level, I assume that Stannis needs to be removed from the board in some way to make place for Jon Snow (who may become King in the North, what with Robb's will and all in the books). 

Hence my theory that he is set up to be majorly disappointed and isolated (and may do something desperate). I like Stannis as a character though, so I'll be happy if it doesn't happen and he stays around longer .

@Lord Varys

All interesting ideas!

I think Ramsay is the one who's written the Pink Letter, on his own, but more out of desperation and anger after he arrives and finds the Freys defeated at the battle of Ice, and receives the news about his bride fleeing North and Stannis's (faked) death. However, too many unknowns to tell for sure.

With Cersei however, her slow descent into madness, her vindictive nature, and her heavy associations with wildfire all point to it being very likely she burns some part of KL down with wildfire as a last ditch attempt to get back at her enemies before she flees KL. 

 

 

About Benjen, if the Children have found him and saved him, why haven't they told Bran about it yet? Why would they just save him specifically? There is no indication in the books that the Children can perform this magic either. Benjen may very well be alive in some form, but I personally think the Others have captured him/he might have infiltrated their ranks 

 

On show vs books:

The showrunners as well as GRRM have said on multiple occasions that there will be a few spoilers, but most of the storylines will diverge quite a bit.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/23/game-thrones-season-6-wont-spoil-books

 “People are talking about whether the books are going to be spoiled – and it’s really not true,” Benioff told EW. “So much of what we’re doing diverges from the books at this point. And while there are certain key elements that will be the same, we’re not going to talk so much about that – and I don’t think George is either. People are going to be very surprised when they read the books after the show. They’re quite divergent in so many respects for the remainder of the show.”

“What makes the books so great is that George doesn’t make meticulous blueprints for every beat of this story and then fill in the blanks dutifully going from A to B to C, fleshing out an outline,” Weiss added. “At a certain point, we realized we were going to outpace the books and we kind of chose to see it as a great thing on both sides – there’s this amazing world George has created and now there are two different versions, and there’s no reason we can see why you can’t be thrilled and surprised and dismayed by both of these different versions of this world.”

We can only use the show to give us a hint at where things are going, not as the definite and only possible version of events

[ivosan]

the Hodor thing... I wonder how GRRM will pull it of.

The juxtaposition of a young Hodor having a seizure and the old Hodor dying while holding the door was a strong visual.  

Will GRRM handle both events closely or will he split them by having 13 chapters of unrelated events in between them?

[Lord Varys]

5 hours ago, Tastes like Frey said:

In one of Bran's chapters in the first books, when Robb is hosting Yoren and receives news that Benjen is missing and probably dead, Bran shouts that the Children will save him and everyone laughs at him. It's because of this I'm fairly sure that that will remain the same in the book, although he may well be alive and not some semi-wight thing.

Could be. My point was just that this Benjen thing in the show was way too much resembling Coldhands for us to conclude anything from his appearance. I'm pretty sure Benjen's fate will be addressed and due to the fact that it was postponed again and again we can be reasonably sure that his reappearance will most likely be important.

5 hours ago, ErasmusF said:

Great thread idea!

1. Shireen will be burned, but by Selyse, not Stannis. OK that's S5.

Very unlikely in the book setting. Selyse is the one who actually loves Shireen, not Stannis. The Selyse version in the show was a caricature. If Shireen is sacrificed in the books it will be Stannis. And I wonder even whether Mel will urge him or suggest that because the way she is presented in her chapter there is no hint of her wanting to kill Shireen. In fact, there seems to be something brewing with Shireen's greyscale and Patchface in the books that didn't make it into the show but might be of considerable importance in the books.

5 hours ago, ErasmusF said:

2. Mel will be revealed to be really old (she already has, IMO).

In the book that will most likely be connected to Melisandre's true identity.

5 hours ago, ErasmusF said:

3. Mel will resurrect Jon, but after the traitors have been subdued by the Wildlings. Jon will hang the traitors. Jon will quit the NW. 

The details are show. Not sure whether Jon would hang the traitors. He'd most likely behead them himself as he did behead Slynt. Perhaps he will feed them to Ghost in the books to get a taste of their flesh. He should be very wolf-like when he comes back in the books. One guesses that he'll be less than forgiving with his own murderers. I guess I'd be, too.

That all depending whether Marsh and company even survive until Jon comes back in the books.

5 hours ago, ErasmusF said:

4. Dany will be taken to Vaes Dothrak and burn it down. But with Drogon.

Actually, the vision from the House of the Undying suggests something different. The old crones cleanse themselves in the Womb of the World and then bow to Daenerys. That suggests Dany will bent the dosh khaleen to her will and unite the Dothraki behind her in the process. They are their spiritual leaders and Khal Jhaqo might have been sent to Meereen to bring her back to Vaes Dothrak because they have seen something. We have to keep in mind that Jhaqo and Mago, his bloodrinder, are people who loath Daenerys so there has to be a reason why the hell they just don't kill her then and there.

Drogon will certainly make a very strong impression on the khalasar and Dany might actually return to Vaes Dothrak as its leader.

5 hours ago, ErasmusF said:

6. Dany will return to Mereen in time to rout the last of the Masters.

Could be. Or the show is just simplifying things. I guess there is a chance that she might come back in time to subdue the Volantenes but there is not really a reason for this. Could be that Tyrion and company break down all the slavers and continue to conquer and subdue the surrounding cities (New Ghis, Bhorash, Mantarys, etc.) in her name.

5 hours ago, ErasmusF said:

7. Dolorous Edd will be the new LC.

Could be. Or not. Why not Iron Emmett?

5 hours ago, ErasmusF said:

8. Sam will figure out there's nothing for him in Old Town, head to Horn Hill, his dad won't be there, so he leaves Gilly. He will run into his dad on the way back to the Wall. His dad will be marching to join fAegon. Sam will try to convince him to march North instead, to no avail. Sam will end up killing his dad and taking Heartsbane. 

Definitely not. There is an important plot for him in Oldtown involving Sarella, Pate-Jaqen, and the trouble with the Ironborn, and no reason whatsoever why Sam should visit his mother and sisters. Randyll and Dickon are not likely to return to Horn Hill in the near future.

5 hours ago, ErasmusF said:

9. Bran will have visions of Winterfell and the ToJ. He will see the mystery of the Isle of Faces. Lyanna strapping on armor, then returning to marry Rhaegar. Bran will see that the Children are responsible for creating the Others.

I doubt we'll get a Bran vision of the Tower of Joy. What good would that do? We already know more or less what transpired there and there are other more interesting aspects to this mystery than some fighting scene. Rhaegar and Lyanna's wedding is a possibility. But one guesses that Howland Reed is going to play a role in the books in this whole context, too. Bran has other stuff to cover.

5 hours ago, ErasmusF said:

10. Arya will continue to train with the FM, but refuse to kill an innocent. She won't leave on good terms, though. 

Arya has already killed an innocent. Both Dareon and that insurance guy were innocents. Or at least not guilty enough to be murdered by some little girl who doesn't know them. I have great difficulty imagining that she just bonds with some woman and then discovers she doesn't want to be an assassin. She wants to do that in the books. My feeling is that the show just cut most of Arya's storyline to get her back to Westeros now. One actually wonders why the hell she went there in the first place. The Faceless Men and their past isn't important and neither are their plans or those of a client they are working for right now. In the books Arya most likely is going to get involved in something like that. But clearly not in the show.

5 hours ago, ErasmusF said:

11. Margery will wend her way out of the High Sparrow's grasp.

She already has in the books. But if Mace refuses to let the High Septon conduct a trial against her there Faith and the Tyrells will eventually go to war.

5 hours ago, ErasmusF said:

12. Littlefinger will march north with Sansa and the Vale army. 

Perhaps eventually. Or not. In the books this is a longterm plan for next spring, not some plan in the middle of winter where the Vale men would most likely all die of cold and starvation.

5 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

This is actually what I believed before the Season 5 of the show. I also believed that Shireen's burning would take place at the hands of Melisandre for the resurrection of Jon. However, I am not so sure how things will play out now. From a meta level, I assume that Stannis needs to be removed from the board in some way to make place for Jon Snow (who may become King in the North, what with Robb's will and all in the books). 

Hence my theory that he is set up to be majorly disappointed and isolated (and may do something desperate). I like Stannis as a character though, so I'll be happy if it doesn't happen and he stays around longer .

The show clearly took Stannis' book plot involving the Boltons and Winterfell, excised him last season (and Roose this season), and then put Jon Snow and Sansa into the structure in his stead. Nothing new happened in that plot this season.

I agree that Jon will eventually have to take over for Stannis, but when exactly that's going to happen remains to be seen. There is a lot of stuff being prepared. We have Hardhome unresolved in the books, the deal with the Iron Bank and the coming sellswords (some most likely will come), the Weeper's imminent attack on the Shadow Tower, and Rickon's return from Skagos.

Jon and Stannis could easily work together for quite some time before the great attack comes. This would even make more sense if Jon comes back damaged and needs considerable time to put himself back together.

5 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

@Lord Varys

All interesting ideas!

I think Ramsay is the one who's written the Pink Letter, on his own, but more out of desperation and anger after he arrives and finds the Freys defeated at the battle of Ice, and receives the news about his bride fleeing North and Stannis's (faked) death. However, too many unknowns to tell for sure.

Could be. My personal guess still is that the letter might actually have been written before Ramsay (or Roose?) set out and march to the village because their greatest concern after Jeyne's escape will be to find out what was going on. For that they would torture either Mance (if they got him alive/at all) or one of the surviving spear wives, and there is actually no reason why they wouldn't have written such a letter at once thereafter. Just in case Theon and Jeyne were headed directly to the Wall.

5 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

With Cersei however, her slow descent into madness, her vindictive nature, and her heavy associations with wildfire all point to it being very likely she burns some part of KL down with wildfire as a last ditch attempt to get back at her enemies before she flees KL. 

It certainly is a possibility but aside from the Tower of the Hand thing there was nothing else indicating anything of that. And as things stand right now one really wonders who (aside from Qyburn, perhaps) would assist her in anything of this sort. In the books she has lost all her legal power not to mention her standing as a powerful and beautiful queen. Wisdom Hallyne and his pyromancers most likely wouldn't be keen to continue associate themselves with Cersei.

5 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

About Benjen, if the Children have found him and saved him, why haven't they told Bran about it yet? Why would they just save him specifically? There is no indication in the books that the Children can perform this magic either. Benjen may very well be alive in some form, but I personally think the Others have captured him/he might have infiltrated their ranks 

Well, Coldhands seem to be some sort of 'saved wight'. I used to assume he was a skinchanger in live and successfully reclaimed his wight body after his death, severing the magical link to the Others in the process, but that might just be crap.

 

[Ser Greenseer]

The WW raid on the cave of the children. I don't think the outcome will be the same. Bran and Co will escape using Gorne's way instead of running through the snow.

 

[ivosan]

On 6/22/2016 at 6:44 AM, Lord Varys said:

 Unless we assume that Jon Snow's resurrection is going to be completely different from the show it is pretty much impossible that Mel will sacrifice Shireen to pull this off. The book will have Jon Snow's ghost in Ghost (pun obviously intended by the author years ago) - a plot that was completely dropped in the books. Melisandre will give Jon Snow's body the last rites according to the R'hllor religion and then she'll very much accidentally resurrect Jon's body. The fact that Jon is still spiritually around in his direwolf will be discovered by the skinchanger Borroq who is conveniently at the Wall right now, and then Jon will either quickly automatically return into his resurrected body or he'll accomplish this with some help.

 

The show was careful enough not to fully contradict this.  Yes, it led viewers to believe that Melisandre performed the resurrection, however just before Jon opening his eyes, it was Ghost who raised his head.  It was the closest they could stick to the books, without having all the warging stuff.