We need to trust each other now.

[Tchzaelous]

18 hours ago, VarysWig said:

I was under the impression it was a trap because he brought the Cavalry into arrow firing range, exactly where Ramsey wanted the battle to be so he could begin working on the corpse wall with ease.

Pretty sure I remember him firing into his own men, which means the cavalry clashed at about the same time. I'd have to re-watch to be sure but that's what I remember anyway.

[Dragonslack]

You think he made that impossible wall on purpose? Lol

The plot was stupid, dont blame the characters. It would have been better: Jon sees a chance to save him, fails by an inch but has a shield to protect himself from arrows so Ramsay sends the cavalry. They were not characters but puppets for DD showing ripped off histórica battles, that is why it doesnt make sense.

[Future Null Infinity]

they will be cool after the a rocky start full of mistrust, they will say goodbye, she will go somewhere and he will go somewhere else and Winterfell will be empty again

its GoT, we will never see "and then they lived happily ever after in Winterfell"

[Drago]

On ‎22‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 10:19 PM, Rumy Stark said:

So I've obsessively watched the preview like a billion times and I'm almost entirely sure those two sound bites are from different parts of the same conversation, which may mean something and it may not. Either way I cannot wait to see this conversation.

I am just hoping it happens after Sansa's meeting with LF in the Godswood, as I would love for Sansa and Jon to finally be honest with each other and be on the same page. I worry very much that they'll have this really intense convo and reconciliation and then she'll meet with LF and we'll be back in the saddle again, as it were. 

Jon has been honest the whole time. Yes maybe he has not included her in the battle plans but that doesn't mean that he was not honest towards her. Sansa on the other hand has not been completely honest, withholding information she should not have. I'm not saying I dislike her but I think she has been around the wrong people too long and picked up some bad traits. Deep down she does not trust Jon to some extent and that is understandable considering what people have done to her and I think that is more to do with her getting to know him again because of their time apart.

[website error]

On 6/22/2016 at 11:46 AM, jrod said:

That is my thought process.  For everyone throwing Sansa under the bus about LF and the Vale, we still don't know what she knew.  While I think with all Jon's concerns about that is all the men they could get and it was their best chance, she should have told him she at least sent a letter to LF who was close.  We don't know, as some seem to suggest, that she KNEW they were actually coming to her aid.  Last that I remember we know is she sent a letter to LF asking for his help, we don't know if he replied to her or if she received word somehow that the knights of the Vale were on the move to help them.

So again, she screwed up by apparently not telling Jon she was trying to get more help, a lot of people seem to think that she knew the Vale was on it's way to help and still didn't tell Jon, which as of now we don't know. 

So like you, I'm going to wait and see on my judgement of Sansa.

This is close to what I think. It's important to realize that just b/c Sansa "sent a raven" to LF, she didn't get a reply. So she didn't know if LF would show - or if he would arrive in time. What we see is Sansa trying to get Jon to wait. BUT if she spilled the beans about writing to LF in an effort to get Jon to wait - that might not be good either! Suppose Jon says, OK, we wait - and LF doesn't show! Suppose Jon gets mad about LF even being contacted. Sansa isn't claiming to know anything about battles - she just knows she has insight into Ramsay's sadistic cleverness (and her warnings all turn out golden, don't they?).

So, I'm not in any doubt. Sansa is on the side of the Good Guys and the Starks, and at the end she will be shoulder to shoulder with Dany, Yara, Arya and Meera and the rest of the Heathers.

[website error]

23 hours ago, Ice Spider said:

That's just it. If people would base their speculations on how they see the show ending and then work backwards, instead of trying to formulate theories based on where the show is at now, many of these crazy theories would disappear.

If we start with the most popular (and most likely) of end game theories, Jon and Dany joining forces to defeat the others, we need to formulate theories that make sense to that end. Game of "Thrones" eventually becomes Game of "Survival".

Many of our current characters (LF for example), just don't seem to fit into this endgame. So, we either start to see the beginning of a character arc change for LF, or, we will soon see his death. My money is on the latter.

This

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After having defended Sansa - I want to defend Jon a little. First of all, this is Azor Ahai we're talking about, if he makes a few mistakes it's not fatal. Second, when somebody like Ramsay sets up a trap where your humanity is opposed to common sense, it's hard to avoid falling. As Eddings used to say, there are some sword-swinging sequences you know you're going to lose, but you still can't get out of them. Of course, Rickon was too dumb to take evasive action! This whole thing where people hit moving targets with arrows almost offends one's sense of physics. But Jon was going to pull Rickon onto his horse, and he got pretty close. IOW this does not mark Jon as a hothead forever. Not everything is consistent.

Further, as Ramsay says, Jon is a legitimate badass with a sword. When he gets into his battle satori he can manipulate a shield fast enough to catch an arrow (he made it look too easy). Jon has the military loyalty of a Thormund, that's a pretty good recommendation (and then there was Wun Wun, snif). Jon and Sansa make a good team because they have complementary strengths.

What is disconcerting is Jon acting like a protective big brother although he is 8 inches shorter than Sansa. In addition, although I am #TeamSansa all the way, Sophie's facial expressions have not been accurate to the plot. Her face has been interpreted as mad at Jon, plotting against Jon, lying to Jon, etc., but apart from the (adequately explained) decision not to tell Jon "Oh hey, LF might be stopping by", her acting has been misleading. People bringing up things like "Sansa never liked Jon" - that's what I call being too analytical, like the past episodes always hold unambiguous clues to present episodes. Jon and Sansa and Arya when she shows up are THE STARKS. They were raised not to compete with each other (like another family I could name) but to support each other. Tommen doesn't go around quoting Tywin, but Jon's "awareness" of Ned is pretty much continuous: what would my father do.

Let me extend Ice Spider's hypothesis about a different departure for LF. In order to live, he has to get on the side of the Good GUys. But my impression is that he still thinks in terms of KL and the Lannisters. He might get caught in the wildfire if he goes back to KL in order to sell the Starks out to Cersei (who he is nominally working for).

[boodofmyblood]

Regardless of the analyzing that can be done about why Sansa didn't tell Jon, bottom line is she doesn't trust him completely. She was right about Ramsay simply because of her personal experience with him, but she was also condescending towards Jon about other things that she was 100% wrong about. For example, taking Davos on as his advisor is something she criticized Jon for more than once, even though she knows nothing about him. Sansa's experiences have left her extremely cynical, to the point where her own family isn't exempt and that she can't always see clearly, so I think the theories that some people have had since the episode about her being this all knowing master of the game now are way off. She is on the side of the good guys, I just hope she can begin to trust Jon more fully in the finale and her other family as well (whenever they show up).

[Lord Friendzone]

6 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

they will be cool after the a rocky start full of mistrust, they will say goodbye, she will go somewhere and he will go somewhere else and Winterfell will be empty again

its GoT, we will never see "and then they lived happily ever after in Winterfell"

Jon can't go back to the Wall, he needs to prepare for walkers and Sansa got to North. This is where she belongs and Sandor is on his way, Brienne too. It won't be happily ever after but akward one with LF around. People pointed out parallel with Daeny, Tyrion and Varys and then Jon/Sansa/Littlefinger.. Like Varys and Littlefinger will meet again.

[illinifan]

7 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

they will be cool after the a rocky start full of mistrust, they will say goodbye, she will go somewhere and he will go somewhere else and Winterfell will be empty again

its GoT, we will never see "and then they lived happily ever after in Winterfell"

The Starks get their moment of triumph this season before getting pulled into the wider war they wish to avoid next season.  LF is the catalyst for this. 

[Future Null Infinity]

2 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

People pointed out parallel with Daeny, Tyrion and Varys and then Jon/Sansa/Littlefinger.. Like Varys and Littlefinger will meet again.

it's me who pointed that 

2 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Jon can't go back to the Wall, he needs to prepare for walkers and Sansa got to North

I think that Bran will somehow call Jon to come to the wall and help him, it's the destiny of Jon : fight after fight without end, the preparations are the gathering of everyone related to the red priests and R'hllor, I can see the wall as the first meeting between Jon and Co and the BwB (Daenerys with kinvara will also be there later in story)

2 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Sansa got to North. This is where she belongs and Sandor is on his way, Brienne too

I see the plot armor of Sansa as the character who always escapes dangerous places, the north will soon be a very dangerous, events will push Sansa & Co further to the south to safer places, the freys in the riverlands will soon taste the wrath of the starks

[awearyman]

On 6/22/2016 at 3:55 PM, Sir Matthis Light said:

IDK I really don't see the only two Stark children who are together ending the season as adversaries. But then again this is a show with D&D at the helm.

The show is still a curiosity... Im afraid that the butchering will lead to apathy. Sansa's acting has me confused in that you walk away with the feeling that the actress is not conveying her character correctly. I feel like the show is totally coming apart at the seams.  

[Lord Friendzone]

34 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

it's me who pointed that 

I think that Bran will somehow call Jon to come to the wall and help him, it's the destiny of Jon : fight after fight without end, the preparations are the gathering of everyone related to the red priests and R'hllor, I can see the wall as the first meeting between Jon and Co and the BwB (Daenerys with kinvara will also be there later)

I see the plot armor of Sansa as the character who always escapes dangerous places, the north will soon be a very dangerous, events will push Sansa & Co further to the south to safer places, the freys in the riverlands will soon taste the wrath of the starks

Oh then good job.

Jon needs more men and for that he needs to unite them, be in position of power to convince. I thought Bran will go to Winterfell and since he has that mark on his hand allowing White Wakers to pass the magic around the Wall...meet Jon. There is a Weirwood tree. One Stark family reunion before big battle. Arya is supposed to be in Westeros. Also Jon said to Edd don't knock it down while I'm gone, this almost seems like a foreshadowing that while Jon is South the Wall fall down and walker pass.

Sansa is very unpredictable. She needs to finish it with Littlefinger but then I don't see them killing him just yet but also not giving up Winterfell or believe in zombies theories. North is very interesting but important will be who is leading them Jon or Sansa. Curious what they'll do.

I heard that Jon and LF will have a scene together, he knows something about Lyanna from last season and the way he looked at Sansa while she mentioned Rhaegar raping and kidnapping her. Also in trailer here we have one scene where it seems like someone is approaching LF and it doesn't look like scene from the episode 10 promo with LF and Sansa. Lightning, where he stand and all this.

 

[Chib]

Is there any chance Jon will tell Ghost to kill LF? That would be crazy. 

[Maude Tyrell]

1 minute ago, Chib said:

Is there any chance Jon will tell Ghost to kill LF? That would be crazy. 

Glad that Ghost wasn't at the Battle of Bastards. I won't be able to handle it if another direwolf will die.

[Lord Friendzone]

1 minute ago, Maude Tyrell said:

Glad that Ghost wasn't at the Battle of Bastards. I won't be able to handle it if another direwolf will die.

They choose Wun Wun over him. That means Ghost would die so...I think people are happy that he wasn't part of the battle. Ghost will make it at least towards battle against walkers. Nymeria also.

[Chib]

Just now, Lord Friendzone said:

They choose Wun Wun over him. That means Ghost would die so...I think people are happy that he wasn't part of the battle. Ghost will make it at least towards battle against walkers. Nymeria also.

 

I can deal with all the human die, let the wolves live!! Sorry not sorry!

[Maude Tyrell]

3 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

They choose Wun Wun over him. That means Ghost would die so...I think people are happy that he wasn't part of the battle. Ghost will make it at least towards battle against walkers. Nymeria also.

I know. But poor Wun wun, he's the last of the giants. He's role in the battle was very important tho. At least we get to keep Ghost.

[Lord Friendzone]

7 minutes ago, Chib said:

I can deal with all the human die, let the wolves live!! Sorry not sorry!

Tbh if they even make their death somehow relevant and meaningful. Shaggy died off screen and Summer by suicide. They deserved better. Summer's death weas especially stupid since should've run away but then we have Benjen rescue.

[Maude Tyrell]

On 6/22/2016 at 8:36 PM, dbunting said:

Yeah, I am reserving judgment on Sansa until after this week to see if they can get this worked out. Sansa should know enough about LF to know that Jon is more trustworthy.

But then again he is Petyr fooking Baelish (insert Bronn's voice). He knows his way with words. Now that Sansa had again asked for his help, he definitely has his claws at her again.