Maude Tyrell Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 And the imp 17 minutes ago, Chib said: I can deal with all the human die, let the wolves live!! Sorry not sorry! The dragons should live! And The Imp too, please let him live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 45 minutes ago, Maude Tyrell said: And the imp The dragons should live! And The Imp too, please let him live. I think all the magical creatures will leave the Westeros means no direwolves, dragons, white walkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chib Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said: I think all the magical creatures will leave the Westeros means no direwolves, dragons, white walkers. better let WW take the Westeros and the human of Westeros leave for Esso loll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 14 minutes ago, Chib said: better let WW take the Westeros and the human of Westeros leave for Esso loll White Walkers attacked 8000 years ago both Westeros and Essos. I mean far East there is a place too and stories about them. I think White Walkers will be defeated but it will cost our heroes a lot. They doesn't seems like someone willing to negotiate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chib Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Just now, Lord Friendzone said: White Walkers attacked 8000 years ago both Westeros and Essos. I mean far East there is a place too and stris about them. I think White Walkers will be defeated but it will cost our heroes a lot. They doesn't seems like someone willing to negotiate. I don't mind all the heroes die, I want the direwolves live!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said: Jon needs more men and for that he needs to unite them, be in position of power to convince. I thought Bran will go to Winterfell and since he has that mark on his hand allowing White Wakers to pass the magic around the Wall...meet Jon. There is a Weirwood tree. One Stark family reunion before big battle. Arya is supposed to be in Westeros. Also Jon said to Edd don't knock it down while I'm gone, this almost seems like a foreshadowing that while Jon is South the Wall fall down and walker pass. I'm with you on this, I was talking about bran calling Jon for help when he's south of the wall, then the WW will pass through the wall to westeros because of Bran's mark, it's inevitable, it just I can't see Jon building huge armies, he knows that mere mortals can't kill the WW (hardhome) 1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said: Sansa is very unpredictable this is the main reason of why I love her story 1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said: She needs to finish it with Littlefinger but then I don't see them killing him just yet but also not giving up Winterfell or believe in zombies theories I'm with you on this, Littlefinger (and Varys) is the engine of the story, you can't just kill the engine, but man, he's crazy about red-haired stark women 1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said: I heard that Jon and LF will have a scene together, he knows something about Lyanna from last season and the way he looked at Sansa while she mentioned Rhaegar raping and kidnapping her. Also in trailer here we have one scene where it seems like someone is approaching LF and it doesn't look like scene from the episode 10 promo with LF and Sansa. Lightning, where he stand and all this. I know, I think that LF was defending Sansa's right to Winterfell by saying the truth about jon, but Baelish will not like what will sansa do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plastic throne Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 I just can't forgive her for not saying anything about the Vale support, in my mind that's treason. So I can't really feel Jon's "We need to trust each other" from the trailer, where there should be Sansa's "I need to start trusting you". It still boggles me, there were numerous chances for her to speak about it (they had to be together traveling the North for months, with no success in drafting northern houses). However, we can't/shouldn't hold it against her, like Jon's #yolo in battle of the bastards, their behavior was totally out of character, it's the writers fault, I guess they thought we'll never noticed it. But it is, what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 28 minutes ago, plastic throne said: I just can't forgive her for not saying anything about the Vale support, in my mind that's treason. So I can't really feel Jon's "We need to trust each other" from the trailer, where there should be Sansa's "I need to start trusting you". Yes friend, don't forgive a fictional character the scene when Jon stopped punching Ramsay because he saw Sansa explains everything from start to end about Sansa and Jon, she was raped by a man, he wanted revenge, she was blinded by vengeance (you can see the parallel with arya), she wanted to win so badly but she didn't trust Jon for giving her that victory (ragtag army), she wanted to get her victory on her abuser by any mean necessary, revenge is the only thing she wants (LSH vibes), she don't give a damn about anyone anymore, to assure her victory she didn't tell anyone and went alone because she thinks that ramsay and her revenge is a personal affair Jon stopped punching Ramsay because he saw that Sansa wants her personal vengeance on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 4 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said: I'm with you on this, I was talking about bran calling Jon for help when he's south of the wall, then the WW will pass through the wall to westeros because of Bran's mark, it's inevitable, it just I can't see Jon building huge armies, he knows that mere mortals can't kill the WW (hardhome) this is the main reason of why I love her story I'm with you on this, Littlefinger (and Varys) is the engine of the story, you can't just kill the engine, but man, he's crazy about red-haired stark women I know, I think that LF was defending Sansa's right to Winterfell by saying the truth about jon, but Baelish will not like what will sansa do Point of this battle was also to make it easy for walkers. North doesn't have that many men but Jon needs to rally as many men as he can. Sansa is becoming really interesting character having Stark name but acting like not one. She learned from Tyrion, Baelish, Cersei and others. Jon, LF and Sansa could be funny triangle. It's clear the Wall will not fall down and it makes sense and 13 episodes of walkers smashing everyone is boring. I think wall will go down in next season around middle of the season. Littlefinger and Varys should be meeting each other. I think Littlefinger might even use what he knows about Jon to his advantage and apprently he shars some info with Jon during their scene. Tbh not really sure how reliable this description is but it sounds interesting. Also LF is part of Northern council and advocating for Sansa to be Queen and marriage with North and Vale. Where Sansa shoots it down and push Jon. It would make sense. Sansa would outplay LF because he wants this. Sansa as Queen and him controlling them, also Jon wouldn't push to be King and it goes in line with his character. Even as LC Sam pushed him and he did his duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said: Also LF is part of Northern council and advocating for Sansa to be Queen and marriage with North and Vale. Where Sansa shoots it down and push Jon. It would make sense. Sansa would outplay LF because he wants this. Sansa as Queen and him controlling them, also Jon wouldn't push to be King and it gos i line with his character. Even as LC Sam pushed him and he did his duty. I like this parallel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plastic throne Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said: Yes friend, don't forgive a fictional character the scene when Jon stopped punching Ramsay because he saw Sansa explains everything from start to end about Sansa and Jon, she was raped by a man, he wanted revenge, she was blinded by vengeance (you can see the parallel with arya), she wanted to win soo badly but she didn't trust Jon for giving her that victory (ragtag army), she wanted to get her victory on her abuser by any mean necessary, revenge is the only thing she wants (LSH vibes), she don't give a damn about anyone anymore, to assure her victory she didn't tell anyone and went alone because she thinks that ramsay and her revenge is a personal affair Well, we're all to a point emotionally invested in a story. There is a point of no return, a point where you either don't care about the character any longer or start 'hating' them due to their motivations, decisions,... I bet I could say the same for you - do you like Ramsey, think he could redeem himself in your eyes? I guess you cannot 'forgive' him. The second and third paragraphs makes no sense, at all. Her gaining revenge is directly entangled with her brother Jon succeeding in battle (aka survival of both her and him). If he looses (and there's a good possibility at that as hinted) or Vale comes too late (or not at all because they haven't sit down with them and strike a deal), it is done. She had more then enough time to think it through thoroughly. And it wasn't even her commanding the army so I don't see this as 'assuring victory for herself' argument you spoke of. She wrote a letter yes, but she could as well tremendously up her odds if she spoke about it to Jon and would still be the one who brought the ace up her sleeve to tip the scales (revenge). If what you say was true though, it portraits Sansa is absolutely horrible character, on pair with Cersei, Mad King ("I dont' care who dies in the process, I'm not letting anyone win, victory will be mine, mine, mine"),... I can't 'buy' that because I don't see that kind of Sansa in development from earlier episodes. To sum up, in my opinion they both (Jon and Sansa) went way outside of character (because plot demands) and episode made no sense to me, no matter how or what kind of arguments are used to defend her (or his) actions. This universe draws from realism, and this was a first and foremost, a question of survival not some child's play where you want to win in a harmless cardboard game (in Sansa's case survival is even directly tied with her revenge). I'm troubled between 'not giving a fuck about Starks anymore' or just pretend all that did not happen and played out differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garse Ironjade Janacek Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 5 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said: I think White Walkers will be defeated but it will cost our heroes a lot. They doesn't seems like someone willing to negotiate. But, has anyone tried? I think it is foolish to dismiss the possibility simply because they are "Others" and are ugly, scary, and different. It is a classic Martin cultural clash to be resolved. I bet the Nights King certainly would negotiate, or his likely puppet masters, the CoF. Perhaps freeing the WW from the CoF's subservience is the way to save Westeros from the Long Night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 47 minutes ago, plastic throne said: To sum up, in my opinion they both (Jon and Sansa) went way outside of character (because plot demands) and episode made no sense to me, no matter how or what kind of arguments are used to defend her (or his) actions. This universe draws from realism, and this was a first and foremost, a question of survival not some child's play where you want to win in a harmless cardboard game (in Sansa's case survival is even directly tied with her revenge). I'm troubled between 'not giving a fuck about Starks anymore' or just pretend all that did not happen and played out differently. I'm not a book reader but many book readers in this forum said that Jon in the battle of the bastards is exactly Jon of the books : a hot-headed, truely honorable man, he runs into the danger immediately to protect justice and many times he paid (even with his life in CB) for this good behaviour (a behaviour that somtimes resemble Ned's and Robb's), but this time, he was the hero, so my opinion is I can't say that Jon was outside his character As for Sansa, I think that her personality change is realist, I mean you can't preserve an innocent and honorable personality after years of abuse and multiple rapes by a sadistic husband, she was an innocent and dumb girl but you want her to stay the innocent and honorable girl after all those events, it's totally unrealistic, those type of events sometimes kill parts of the humanity of a character, I saw it like a window to the dark side of the pursuit of the revenge ("I dont' care who dies in the process, I'm not letting anyone win, victory will be mine, mine, mine") I don't know if Sansa will preserve her new personality or she was just mad about revenge and she will return to the "the Good Sansa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 9 minutes ago, Garse Ironjade Janacek said: But, has anyone tried? I think it is foolish to dismiss the possibility simply because they are "Others" and are ugly, scary, and different. It is a classic Martin cultural clash to be resolved. I bet the Nights King certainly would negotiate, or his likely puppet masters, the CoF. Perhaps freeing the WW from the CoF's subservience is the way to save Westeros from the Long Night. guys, I don't think that Nights King and the white walkers can speak or communicate by any mean to negotiate with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 6 minutes ago, Garse Ironjade Janacek said: But, has anyone tried? I think it is foolish to dismiss the possibility simply because they are "Others" and are ugly, scary, and different. It is a classic Martin cultural clash to be resolved. I bet the Nights King certainly would negotiate, or his likely puppet masters, the CoF. Perhaps freeing the WW from the CoF's subservience is the way to save Westeros from the Long Night. It looks CotF are dead but who knows there might some left. George describe them as intelligent, inhuman, ellegant, beautiful, strange (they have sense of humor, language, strategy or purpose)... but dangerous race. Show portrayed them as someone who wants to kill and only this. CotF created to protect themselves and they basicaly rebelled. It seems White Walkers are not wiling to negotiate but maybe we'll learn more about them especially in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattnj81 Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 On 6/22/2016 at 8:19 AM, Rumy Stark said: So I've obsessively watched the preview like a billion times and I'm almost entirely sure those two sound bites are from different parts of the same conversation, which may mean something and it may not. Either way I cannot wait to see this conversation. I am just hoping it happens after Sansa's meeting with LF in the Godswood, as I would love for Sansa and Jon to finally be honest with each other and be on the same page. I worry very much that they'll have this really intense convo and reconciliation and then she'll meet with LF and we'll be back in the saddle again, as it were. I believe/hope that LF will not survive that meeting in the Godswood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garse Ironjade Janacek Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 22 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said: guys, I don't think that Nights King and the white walkers can speak or communicate by any mean to negotiate with them In the story, Guardians, Martin has a race of hive minded "mud pots" who were tentacled beings that live on the ocean floor. These creatures have "Guardians" who are sea monsters they genetically engineer to protect themselves from humans who have settled their world. The problem in the story is that the humans are constantly fighting with the "Guardians" trying for a military solution, when what is needed is negotiation and mutual respect with their creators. There was no way to discuss this (or even begin a dialogue) with them, since they spoke no language that any humans know, nor did they think like we think. There was no common ground, no common culture. In the end, it was quite a clever solution that was used to bridge the language/culture barrier. Humanity may need just such a solution to survive the WW....swords seem to be quite ineffective up to this point. The WW could easily be the "Guardians" of the CotF. We are pretty darn sure (unless the vision Bran saw was a lie) that the CotF created them. EDIT: At this point, we are way off the OP thread topic and perilously close to a thread hijack....so I will say no more here. This is perhaps a better discussion on its own thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollosi Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 7 hours ago, Maude Tyrell said: I know. But poor Wun wun, he's the last of the giants. He's role in the battle was very important tho. At least we get to keep Ghost. That was an unnecessary death.. Why couldn't they give him an armor & perhaps a tree / badass weapon to fight with. With Jon becoming KitN, will Sansa stay or leave North with LF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Just now, Trollosi said: That was an unnecessary death.. Why couldn't they give him an armor & perhaps a tree / badass weapon to fight with. With Jon becoming KitN, will Sansa stay or leave North with LF? Sandor, Brienne are coming.Sansa stays there and so will LF. Sansa will learn about LF bertrayl of Ned and then it will be interesting to se how she can deal with him and what she'll do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Daga Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Lord Lannister said: I happen to think it's Sansa who needs to earn Jon's respect at this point. Totally agree 100%!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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