Is there a military solution to the WW doom?

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

2 minutes ago, Nakraal said:

In the show they didn't need fire to kill scores of wights with swords & axes in Hardhome. Same for a couple Meera killed in the cave.

She killed a WW by it though 

[ShadowKitteh]

18 hours ago, tugela said:

Yes. Flying flamethrowers.

[Ser Creighton]

Well in the books, Sam actually knows the Others better than Jon. Jon only came across the one, Sam is the only living human to kill and Other in the books. He is also the one doing all the research about them and the watch. Bloodraven would know more than Jon no question, so on the show that means Bran knows more now, in the books Bran will probably know a lot more than Jon as well.

As Martin said they are not that hard to kill if you know how to kill them. Martin may be against war, but so are most, but he will also tell you he loves big battles in fantasy. Take Dany and the slavers, in Martins world, Slavers don't get off easy, not the first time he has written about slavery either. Essentially like in Fevre Dream the Others essentially stand in for slavers, as the Wights are their thralls, and he hints at finding out about there motivation. There are other hints to this as well.

I think there is as much chance of the Others being reasonable as Euron being sane. When Martin makes someone that bad, the hammer is coming, Astapor.

[website error]

The NK Army are DEAD. They can't win the battle and occupy KL. It's not a conflict in the normal sense, the WW are not headed south in search of food or whatever. They represent some single magical act that has to be accomplished, like Aragorn on the Paths of the Dead. There won't be a final battle in the sense of a pitched battle. The WW can't be thought of as normal creatures wanting to live and survive. They are the dead...OF the living people in front of them. Some karmic injustice has brought them to life (it is also not supposed that the WW are like a species that has always been there), and their purpose, if I may so express it, IS "to die" - again.

I think the forces will assemble. And there may be a confrontation of the Dune type - several candidates for the Throne. I have begun to think that Dany, not the dragons, will die at the very end, victim of a Frodo-like weakness. I hate this, but I just don't think Dany has the fan support that will keep Jon alive. Jon will be there at the end. He might just survive, along with Sansa and Arya (so now it's "Stark Family Robinson"). Or he might be what Mel obviously thinks he is.

Obviously, Bran is going to play a big role in the final decision, not as a military commander but as some sort of catalyst. If they were great writers they would make him find some piece of information in the past that makes it possible to survive in the present. But at least some Earthpower sort of thing is going to come through him. I've seen a lot of theories. In Tolkien, victory is always associated not just with the death of major characters, but with the passing away of many fair things. It would be funny if they invented muskets at the end. The "old days" of Sansa and her sibs is gone, and I guess that is what "bittersweet" will be like

[dornishdragon]

During some time I wondered if the White Walkers are truly evil and if a pact between them and humans wouldn't be a good solution in the end. 

After seeing episode 5 I don't think that anymore. They were created by the Children of the Forest with a single propose, killing humans. And that's the only thing they will do in the show (besides reanimate humans to zombies in their amy). 

It is simply not possible for humans alone to beat this army. There are two many zombies, and they can only be killed using fire or cutting objects which is not easy considering they are stronger than humans, and the WW are much stronger than humans and can only be killed by valyrian steel which is rare and the dragonglass dificult to use unless being in a spear. The human army needs Dany's dragons to wipe out the wights (and maybe the WW) and then a few well armed worries trying to kill the WW because a large human army would result in a lot more zombies afterwards. In this battle quality is more important than quantity and using the right armament in the key to beat the Army of the Dead. The biggest unknown is the anti dragon armament that the WW may have. 

[Garse Ironjade Janacek]

38 minutes ago, Ser Creighton said:

Well in the books, Sam actually knows the Others better than Jon. Jon only came across the one, Sam is the only living human to kill and Other in the books. He is also the one doing all the research about them and the watch. Bloodraven would know more than Jon no question, so on the show that means Bran knows more now, in the books Bran will probably know a lot more than Jon as well.

As Martin said they are not that hard to kill if you know how to kill them. Martin may be against war, but so are most, but he will also tell you he loves big battles in fantasy. Take Dany and the slavers, in Martins world, Slavers don't get off easy, not the first time he has written about slavery either. Essentially like in Fevre Dream the Others essentially stand in for slavers, as the Wights are their thralls, and he hints at finding out about there motivation. There are other hints to this as well.

I think there is as much chance of the Others being reasonable as Euron being sane. When Martin makes someone that bad, the hammer is coming, Astapor.

There's truth in this, but, what have the Others done that is "that bad"?  

They look scary and have great powers of raising the dead....but they've killed no more than Starks, Lannisters, or Targaryn.  None of the Others have fed their living prisoners to dogs for amusement, after all.

We know almost nothing of them, other than: 1) they were men and were changed by the CotF 2) they want babies.  They seem to need them to reproduce 3) they animate the dead 4) they bring the cold, or come with it 5) they demonstrate resistance to fire 6) a weakness to dragon glass and dragon steel, and 7) normal human weapons appear useless.

We don't know what they want.  Can we assume destruction of man is it?

Remember, these aren't necessarily slavers at all.  In fact, they're quite possibly freed slaves.  Assuming strange characters are evil in Martin stories is risky.

[Jedi Renee]

4 hours ago, jandslegate said:

Didn't Stannis say something about there being more at Dragonstone? I can't remember if that is from the book, the show or both. 

Send davos to dragonstone ASAP 

I'm sure they still have some of Stannis's ships.

[Kytheros]

16 hours ago, jandslegate said:

Didn't Stannis say something about there being more at Dragonstone? I can't remember if that is from the book, the show or both. 

That is definitely in the books - in the books, he sent word to Dragonstone to mine as much as possible and send it to the Wall. How much work on that was accomplished before Dragonstone was taken is unknown.

I don't remember it it was in the show or not.

[Trollosi]

16 hours ago, Fiddlefinger said:

The NK Army are DEAD. They can't win the battle and occupy KL. It's not a conflict in the normal sense, the WW are not headed south in search of food or whatever. They represent some single magical act that has to be accomplished, like Aragorn on the Paths of the Dead. There won't be a final battle in the sense of a pitched battle. The WW can't be thought of as normal creatures wanting to live and survive. They are the dead...OF the living people in front of them. Some karmic injustice has brought them to life (it is also not supposed that the WW are like a species that has always been there), and their purpose, if I may so express it, IS "to die" - again.
 

Not so sure about that, I think they want to preserve their 'race' and survive, say by transforming Craster's babies into WWs..

[Aryakills]

Use regular flame, dragon Flame, and Valyrian steel to hold them off while Bran wages a telepathic war with the Nights King over control of and the creation of wights.

So the battle is more about protecting/defeating Bran than anything.

 

 

[MilesJames]

Men can not win this battle they are dommed. Originally Thousands of gians and thousands of children of the forest along with men drove the white walkers back. The giants and children of the forest are now dead. All that Dynerias army will do is add men to the army of wights. The others probaly even will have an ice dragon to counter the fire dragons

[Frimmel]

You can "kill" the wights temporarily with sword (Hardhome episode is a slight retcon in my opinion) and what have you but the Nightking/White Walkers simply resurrect them again along with whatever they've killed. Some might be too decomposed, hacked up, and skeletal and can't be brought back You need the flying flamethrowers to burn them down and burn the newly dead so they can't keep coming back at you time after time after time. 

You need the dragonglass and valyrian steel to kill the white walkers to keep them from returning the dead faster than your flamethrowers can set them on fire and the dead may not animate without the white walkers. 

You also use your flying flamethrowers to herd the wights into prepared kill-zones where your regular troops might attack them with "conventional" incendiary weapons. 

And as ever pick ground to your advantage particularly ground that reduces the WW/wights chief (only?) advantage their numbers. 

 

[Frimmel]

On 6/26/2016 at 6:57 AM, Kytheros said:

That is definitely in the books - in the books, he sent word to Dragonstone to mine as much as possible and send it to the Wall. How much work on that was accomplished before Dragonstone was taken is unknown.

I don't remember it it was in the show or not.

Yes that Stannis gives the orders to mine the dragonglass is in the episodes around where he's trying to get Jon to give up command of The Watch, be named a Stark and made Lord of Winterfell. 

[Masha]

I do believe that the key to defeating WW army is killing off NK. He is like the Master Vampire, he basically created the rest of WW and together they created the Wights, so kill him off and WW die (or revert to human selves) and Wights revert to corpses. 

From what we can put together, he is the one who had the dragonglass shard shoved in his chest, the other WW are like Craster's children converted with his touch/magic, nothing physical, so with him gone spell falls apart.

The problem would be to get to him through Zombie horde, other WW, and actually defeat him because he is most likely a Greenseer too and I don't think he would shatter like glass if stabbed with dragonglass / valyrian blade.

[Jarl Halstein]

On 2016-06-26 at 2:03 PM, Aryakills said:

Use regular flame, dragon Flame, and Valyrian steel to hold them off while Bran wages a telepathic war with the Nights King over control of and the creation of wights.

So the battle is more about protecting/defeating Bran than anything.

 

 

Yes, wasn't it the Bloodraven who told Bran "You will be waiting for him"? Whenever someone says something dramatic about the future in these books, it has meaning. These words mean that it's Bran who will stop the Night King.

His ability was purchased at a very great price. His legs, all the people and Children who died protecting him, the long journey. This must mean his ability is absolutely crucial, not just another weapon. He will lead Jon Snow to the exact spot from which to strike, perhaps. Or lock minds with the Night King at a crucial moment.

Dragons and armies will be important cannon fodder when halting the enemy armies, but I believe it will be Bran's ability that directs the killing blow.

 

[Jarl Halstein]

On 2016-06-24 at 6:04 PM, Garse Ironjade Janacek said:

It is entirely possible that the CotF are still using the WW as a way to kill/defeat humanity, but even if they are not, humans will survive the WW most effectively by bridging the cultural gap that exists between the two cultures. 

 

Holy shit. You've been taking sociology classes I bet.

"We must bridge the CULTURAL GAP between our two cultures. Yours better than mine of course. Please tell me more about your exciting culture and your hopes and dreams, I'm sure my admiration will make you like me!"

"Our culture is about killing you right now. My hope is killing you right now. My dream is to kill you all. We are the ultimate enemy that overshadows all the petty concerns you humans have been fighting each other over, a stark contrast to everything you have ever seen before. We are the devouring fire, the plague, the eternal darkness. How is that not clear to you?"

"But you can make conversation at least. That's a start!"

"No, this is all a hallucination in your mind while I am strangling you."

*gurgle gurgle, choke*

[Donaldys I Trumpagar]

If Sam would hit the books in Oldtown, he'll find the secret to Valyrian steel, which in some way will certainly concern dragons.

They have ~100,000 screamers, so arming them with Valyrian steel would have to help matters.

[Jarl Halstein]

Just now, Donaldys I Trumpagar said:

If Sam would hit the books in Oldtown, he'll find the secret to Valyrian steel, which in some way will certainly concern dragons.

They have ~100,000 screamers, so arming them with Valyrian steel would have to help matters.

Well, screamers are better than schemers. And most of the schemers have just died to make way for them. Hope you brought your mittens boys, 'cause you're going up north.

I think however it's dragonglass they'll find, since Valyrian steel seems way too valuable to be something that could be mass produced. Or has the show said that Valyria could mass produce it back in the days?

[Donaldys I Trumpagar]

17 minutes ago, Jarl Halstein said:

Holy shit. You've been taking sociology classes I bet.

"We must bridge the CULTURAL GAP between our two cultures. Yours better than mine of course. Please tell me more about your exciting culture and your hopes and dreams, I'm sure my admiration will make you like me."

Night King: "I will eat your souls."

Westeros multiculturalist: "No, you don't mean that, if only we can understand each other."

NK: "I SAID I want to eat your souls. It doesn't get any clearer."

WM: "But you can't want that. Maybe we have oppressed you to make you feel that way?"

NN: "I wasn't going to make this personal but you're starting to piss me off..."

[Donaldys I Trumpagar]

6 minutes ago, Jarl Halstein said:

Well, screamers are better than schemers. And most of the schemers have just died to make way for them. Hope you brought your mittens boys, 'cause you're going up north.

I think however it's dragonglass they'll find, since Valyrian steel seems way too valuable to be something that could be mass produced. Or has the show said that Valyria could mass produce it back in the days?

That's true, not Valyrian steel, I should've said dragon glass. Even if Sam did find the proper way to make Valyrian steel, it would take many, many others to be trained to do the work.