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Lockjaw of House Boltagon

Which Lesser House deserves Great House status?

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On 6/25/2016 at 3:16 AM, LionoftheWest said:

Would they? Besides the Reader is there something to show that the lords of Harlaw have been all that different from the other Ironmen in general?

The next lord Ser Harras Harlaw is a knight and several others seem to have connections in Oldtown. They seem more interested in trading/working with the other parts of the 7 kingdoms rather than just raiding.

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7 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

The next lord Ser Harras Harlaw is a knight and several others seem to have connections in Oldtown. They seem more interested in trading/working with the other parts of the 7 kingdoms rather than just raiding.

If that's the case then I willl second the Harlaws as a choice for the Iron Islands.

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20 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

A bit confused what people refer to with the Habsurgs...their move from (modern day) Switzerland to (modern day) Austria? Both these places where part of the Holy Roman Empire back then.

Or is it their conquest of Hungary and a whole bunch of Slavic areas? Well that one didn't turn out too well once the idea of nation states took hold, but it worked for centuries before that.

Or is it the side-branch that ruled the Spanish Empire for a while?

Still, nobody says that the raise of a foreign dynasty can't be problematic, but history is still full of examples where it worked, from the 25th Dynasty of Egypt to the House of Windsor (Sachsen-Gothia). Cleopatra was ethnically Greek, the monarchs of modern day Spain are a branch of House Bourbon (and the place was ruled by a branch of House Habsburg some-when before that) and Kublai Kahn was a Mongol. 

And anyway calling a dynasty "foreign" after 6000/4000/2000 and (about)1000 years of ruling over and living in the Vale and Dorne, respectively is nothing short of silly. Especially with the Arryns, the whole place is named after them "The Vale of Arryn"

There were definitely foreign dynasties that ruled the same as native ones, but two of those you mention aren't that good examples. The Greek dynasty Cleopatra descended from was a remnant of Alexander the Great's armies, and as a result of that almost all power in Egyptian society at the time was held by Greek colonists. They didn't even allow native Egyptians to serve as soldiers until the situation for their kingdom started turning really dire, and Cleopatra was derided by her fellow aristocrats for bothering to learn the Egyptian language. 

Kublai Khan's rule over China was sort of similar. There was a clear racial hierarchy there where Mongols and other nomad peoples were at the top and Han Chinese were at the bottom, and that dynasty eventually fell to a rebellion from the very same Han population. 

But yeah, still calling the Arryns and Rhoynar foreign after such an extremely long period of time might be a bit much. 

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My Preffered Lord Paramounts:      

North: Stark of Winterfell

Iron Isles: Lannister of Casterly Rock "i detest the ironborn"

Riverlands: Vance of Riverrun "a Vance should be given Riverrun"

Vale: Arryn of the Eyrie

Westerlands: Lannister of Casterly Rock

Crownlands/Westeros: Mallister :)

Reach: Tyrell of Highgarden

Stormlands: Connington of Storms End

Dorne: Yronwood                                                    

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2 hours ago, Khaleesi did nothing wrong said:

There were definitely foreign dynasties that ruled the same as native ones, but two of those you mention aren't that good examples. The Greek dynasty Cleopatra descended from was a remnant of Alexander the Great's armies, and as a result of that almost all power in Egyptian society at the time was held by Greek colonists. They didn't even allow native Egyptians to serve as soldiers until the situation for their kingdom started turning really dire, and Cleopatra was derided by her fellow aristocrats for bothering to learn the Egyptian language. 

Kublai Khan's rule over China was sort of similar. There was a clear racial hierarchy there where Mongols and other nomad peoples were at the top and Han Chinese were at the bottom, and that dynasty eventually fell to a rebellion from the very same Han population. 

But yeah, still calling the Arryns and Rhoynar foreign after such an extremely long period of time might be a bit much. 

I know both of those things,I never said those foreign dynasties were nice to their populations, just that they ruled successfully, for a time and became iconic for their respective countries despite being foreign. 

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On 24/6/2016 at 9:33 PM, John Doe said:

Agreed, expect for House Blackwood. They have a dead tree and first men ancestors, that's it. 

Yet they seemed to be involved in many great events, their dead tree had hundrends of birds, they were Kings, they were from the North and so on.

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19 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Yet they seemed to be involved in many great events, their dead tree had hundrends of birds, they were Kings, they were from the North and so on.

Well, many houses were kings and are from the North. It's all very vague imo. 

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3 hours ago, John Doe said:

Well, many houses were kings and are from the North. It's all very vague imo. 

True. However not every one of these houses are involved in almost every major historical events, the majority of their members we know about are not important and exceptional and they are not connected with almost every Great Houses by blood.

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3 hours ago, John Doe said:

Well, many houses were kings

Sure, many Houses were petty kings of smaller kingdoms. The Blackwoods, like the Brackens, briefly ruled the Riverlands as Kings (they also both formed another Riverland rulers House; the Justmans) and both are the only surviving Houses to have once been Kings of the Riverlands.

Historically the Blackwoods and Brackens are actually of a higher prestige than the Tullys and the rest of the Riverland Houses. Even in Targaryen times they can boast Aegon IV's wife and one of the longest standing Hands in Bloodraven.

 

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No one mentioned house redwyne...rich, prosperous and fertile land, a rich cash crop in wine, and the best navy in westeros...if they wanted to cecede from the 7k, the iron throne would have a difficult time reeling them back in..

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On 6/29/2016 at 7:16 PM, King Merrett I Frey said:

House Farwynd of the Lonely Light.

People should listen to them.

Gilbert King!!!

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