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Aegonzo The Great

Dany Now Has Two Stark Sympathizers By Her Side

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Dany, who seems to not have a very good opinion of the Starks, having mentioned them by name several times when talking about her plots for Westeros, may end up singing a different tune in the near future.

She now has Theon Greyjoy with her, who can tell her what it was like growing up at Winterfell, how Ned raised him like a son and did not treat him like a slave (very important!), and how the family as a whole was good and noble. Theon can also tell Dany of the horrors that were dones to Sansa Stark, which with Dany's extreme female prejudice, might help to sway her sympathies at least toward Sansa.

Then we also have Tyrion, who left Jon Snow on amicable terms, admitted to having a soft spot in his heart for Bran, and yes also got to witness horrors being done to Sansa. He can also tell how Ned was betrayed and executed.

Both can also tell her about the Red Wedding.

I long thought the end game was going to be Jon against Dany, but if Dany can be swayed into realizing that not all Westoerosi families are bad, she may be inclined to at least give team Winterfell a chance.

Thoughts?

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2 hours ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

Dany, who seems to not have a very good opinion of the Starks, having mentioned them by name several times when talking about her plots for Westeros, may end up singing a different tune in the near future.

She now has Theon Greyjoy with her, who can tell her what it was like growing up at Winterfell, how Ned raised him like a son and did not treat him like a slave (very important!), and how the family as a whole was good and noble. Theon can also tell Dany of the horrors that were dones to Sansa Stark, which with Dany's extreme female prejudice, might help to sway her sympathies at least toward Sansa.

Then we also have Tyrion, who left Jon Snow on amicable terms, admitted to having a soft spot in his heart for Bran, and yes also got to witness horrors being done to Sansa. He can also tell how Ned was betrayed and executed.

Both can also tell her about the Red Wedding.

I long thought the end game was going to be Jon against Dany, but if Dany can be swayed into realizing that not all Westoerosi families are bad, she may be inclined to at least give team Winterfell a chance.

Thoughts?

Also Varys was there when Ned resigned his position as hand because he wouldn't go along with having Dany and her baby killed. Problem is Varys was the one who probably sent out the order. But he also may have been the one to alert Jorah and thus had him able to stop the assassination. Did Varys know Jorah would stop the attempt?  How will Dany feel about Varys?  Kinda funny how he left just before Dany returned to Mereen. I think that's a conversation Varys would rather not risk having anytime soon. 

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all those shits and Jon snow being her nephew is leading to daenerys changing her view on starks (which is kinda lame)

as for starks daenerys is basically their most desired ally , she can solve all their problems

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Jon being Rhaegar's son, if it can be proven to Daenerys's satisfaction, while not cause for an instant change of mind/heart about the Starks for Daenerys, would/should be enough to buy time to work on changing her position about mindlessly and obsessively hating the Starks.

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I don't think Danny will go too hard on the starks, she didn't kill Tyrion (the brother of her father's killer), and I'm with the persons who said the R+L=J will change dramatically the opinion of Daenerys on the starks (I think R+L=J was created as a plot tool for many other things)

As you said, Sansa is friend of Theon and I may add that also Sansa is the ex-wife of Tyrion

based on the scenes of Melisandre and Kinvara, I think that the end game is that Azor Ahai is two persons = Jon + Dany, the ultimate union against the ultimate enemy

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The Starks are a noble and a generally honest family. The Mad King provoked the Starks to rebel as much as anything. With all the other circumstances listed above, especially Jon being her nephew, it's hard to imagine Dany not making peace with the Starks.

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39 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

think that the end game is that Azor Ahai is two persons = Jon + Dany, the ultimate union against the ultimate enemy

I think Dany or Jon could actually be Lightbringer, Azor Ahai may have been either Aerys or Rhaeager, Dany and Jon are both their father 3rd children (in Dany's case 3rd surviving till adulthood) and their fathers Nissa Nissa had to die to forge them.

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33 minutes ago, The Ice Wolf of Loki said:

I think Dany or Jon could actually be Lightbringer, Azor Ahai may have been either Aerys or Rhaeager, Dany and Jon are both their father 3rd children (in Dany's case 3rd surviving till adulthood) and their fathers Nissa Nissa had to die to forge them.

My opinion is that I don't think that the legend must repeat itself, I see the prince and Nissa Nissa as a symbolism of a man and a woman against evil, this why I think azor ahai = Jon + Dany

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I think Dany will learn more about her father and her brother after her arrival in Westeros. She started her journy with the assumption, that her family was the victim and  the other families of Westeros the cruel ursurpers - pretty much black and white.

Later in story Barristan told her about her fathers madness, but nothing too concrete and he praised Rhaegar a lot.

Last episode Tyrion told her that Aerys burned innocent people. 

I think she will discover more and more the truth about her father and brother and that her family isn't the only victim in this story.

 

I wonder, if she will overthink her position as a conqueror. Her main goal was too defeat the eveil ursuper, but she is probably learning, that they weren't that evil and Aerys was just unbearable. It will be intersting which truth she will lean about Rhaegar. 

Of course she wants to break the wheel too, but we don't know, if there is so much to break, after she arrives in Kings Landing.

I would like to see her views and reasons for her conquering getting destroyed.

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Daenerys actual vision about the Starks is not a very favorable one I think she stills see them as enemies of House Targaryen that helped the Usurper conquering the Iron Throne. Similar to her opinion when Ser Barristan told her about how he escaped Kings Landing after Ned Stark's death. However now she has the notion that the her father killed hundreds of innocent people so see no longer thinks that House Targaryen had the absolute right during Robert's Rebellion. 

However if she knows that R+L=J then I think she would atleast have a positive opinion about Jon, maybe not about House Stark, but atleast about is nephew which is her only family still alive. Maybe there the two could join fighting the Army of the Dead with Dany's dragons. 

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@Aegonzo The Great:

Lots of good stuff in your post, but Jon against Dany? Why would that happen?  Dany wants the Iron Throne, and Jon has no interest in that and never has had any interest in that.

Also, in addition to the good food for thought you raised, let's not forget that Barristan Selmy told Dany (in Season 5, I believe) that the Mad King was in fact crazy and bad (which Dany acknowledged she understood just last week in Episode 609, when she was talking to Tyrion, Theon, and "Yara" and said something like they all had bad fathers).  I believe Dany's understanding of that took a lot of the wind out of her "revenge" sails anyway (not that that will change her belief that the Iron Throne is hers by right, though)

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4 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Also Varys was there when Ned resigned his position as hand because he wouldn't go along with having Dany and her baby killed. Problem is Varys was the one who probably sent out the order. But he also may have been the one to alert Jorah and thus had him able to stop the assassination. Did Varys know Jorah would stop the attempt?  How will Dany feel about Varys?  Kinda funny how he left just before Dany returned to Mereen. I think that's a conversation Varys would rather not risk having anytime soon. 

True, very true!

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1 hour ago, Cron said:

@Aegonzo The Great:

Lots of good stuff in your post, but Jon against Dany? Why would that happen?  Dany wants the Iron Throne, and Jon has no interest in that and never has had any interest in that.

I had a crackpot theory before this season that the Starks and the Others would actually wind up on the same side. I thought Benjen had already joined them, the Three Eyed Raven was working for them, and it was just a simple matter of converting the other Starks to the cause. Dany would arrive in Westeros to fight against the Others and the Starks, and that is when Jon's Targaryen lineage would come into play as he would betray the side of Ice and join the Fire.

Needless to say, after this season, the pot is no longer cracked, it is shattered into a million pieces. I'm still a little disappointed that the Others are simply going to turn out to be bad guys just for the sake of being bad guys, but so it goes.

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2 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

But when Grey Worm asks Tyrion if the Starks are their enemies he says yes.

I wonder which Starks he’s thinking about there, since as far as Tyrion knows, the Starks have been extinguished, at least in the male line.  

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36 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

I wonder which Starks he’s thinking about there, since as far as Tyrion knows, the Starks have been extinguished, at least in the male line.  

I think maybe he was referring to historical precedents.

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I fear how corny/cliche the Battle of Dawn will play out.  The Others have been adapted as an embodiment of pure evil.  (maybe they are in the books? i thought i had read there could be some ambiguity as to their motives, but maybe im recalling incorrectly)

4x10 Bran's scene where they make it to the 3ER-Cave felt jarringly out of place with the rest of the show.  The Children and the fire bombs.  Now I imagine in Season 8 the fantasy/magic elements notching up to 11.  It will be sooo weird.

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5 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

I don't think Danny will go too hard on the starks, she didn't kill Tyrion (the brother of her father's killer), and I'm with the persons who said the R+L=J will change dramatically the opinion of Daenerys on the starks (I think R+L=J was created as a plot tool for many other things)

As you said, Sansa is friend of Theon and I may add that also Sansa is the ex-wife of Tyrion

based on the scenes of Melisandre and Kinvara, I think that the end game is that Azor Ahai is two persons = Jon + Dany, the ultimate union against the ultimate enemy

That's she did not kill Tyrion.

On the show and in the books it is not her enemies children she is mad at, Robert tried to murder her and Selmy never had a chance to explain Ned Stark to her. She never once thinks about oh I need to murder their kids. Though she has yet to meet Tyrion in the books, but Martins comments suggest he will help mentor her when he was asked about her knowledge of the 7 Kingdoms. He pointed out that it's a lucky thing that someone like Tyrion was around to perhaps help her in the future.

She did not like Robert, Ned and the Lannisters not just because of what they did to her family, but because Robert tried to kill her, and Ned was his hand, and he was married to the Lannisters.

It's interesting that Dany has not yet met Vary's. Because he can explain a lot of things to her about what went down in KL both before her families fall and after. At least on the show. She probably meets him next season, and the Sand Snakes, uuuug, who will probably be her body guards and replace her hand maids who have not been seen in years. Though Tyrion is going to lose it when finds out what they did to his niece. I can't see Varys bringing them into the fold knowing what they did and Tyrions reaction. It's not like she needs more horse men, though he does not know that yet. He may simply be there to give viewers some insight into situation Westeros. Lannisters, and Tyrells are off the table, Starks are tied up, but it would be cool to see him meet with them. Tully's are defeated, Vale is with LF and the Starks.

Now that I think about it, Dorne may come to Dany similar to how Yara came to Dany but they meet Tyrion. And it occurs to me Arya needs some people to play off of next season as she returns home. Who better than Varys and Sam, as Varys clearly needs to have interactions with someone as well. Calling it now Arya and Varys, who are both tied to mummers in a way.   

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Jon vs Dany never made sense to me. I think, like Arya, some of Dany's perspectives have changed over the years. She realizes now that things aren't black and white. She took Tyrion onto Team Dany. She doesn't blame him for his family's actions. Same will happen with the Starks. I believe 100% Dany and Jon will ally themselves together. 

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5 hours ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

But when Grey Worm asks Tyrion if the Starks are their enemies he says yes.

That's not how he phrased it. He basically said "I thought those families hated each other" after Tyrion told that joke, and Tyrion says yes. He wasn't suggesting the Starks were Dany's enemies, just that that's how those families see each other back in Westeros. 

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