Dany Now Has Two Stark Sympathizers By Her Side

[Sand11751]

The fact that Tyrion is her closest advisor on the show made me assume the Starks would get off light. She is all fire and blood when she makes ready, but Tyrion will appeal to her practical side, and even get her to just banish Jaime to the Wall. Which will make no difference once he strangles Cersei and kills himself.

[website error]

This has been a great thread. One of the best ever on this site. Many things that are true to the show are stated here. It has looked as if Jon and Dany are the final two contestants, so to speak. But at the same time, Dany LIKED Yara. You think about it, she's only had Missandei and a bunch of Dothraki, Jorah is lost for the time being and Daario seems to have hit a ceiling. Dany's personality has been under such pressure from the beginning. She (and Jon too really, and Sansa) has now grown up,  from being a little bride etc. I'm going on like this b/c I want to find a scenario that lets Dany live. I have a bad feeling about the foreshadowings of her potential madness. If the WW/NK are really an Enemy, then they might be able to get some human agent (like Dany) to freak out and do things that should not be done. Many of course think this is where Cersei is headed (others say Lena is getting full pay for next year).

I'm enthused about the possibility that the end of all the action would bring with it a certain amount of tying up threads from episodes past. That said, I pointed out elsewhere some things about the WW/NK that I think bear repeating here.

The WW are not just "the dead" but they are dead. They want to kill living humans and make them like themselves. But they are not competing for resources, capturing territory, or anything like that. They cannot be thought of as a different species. They are "the dead" OF...the people who still live. There is a relationship. What will stop the WW is some single, massive, possibly magical action that will restore the dead to their proper...inertness! The dead cannot be thought of as wanting to walk around. They can't take over Westeros and rule zombie kingdoms. Some basic principle of nature or magic or perhaps morality has been violated on a metaphysical scale. This is to be set right, and the WW will disappear. (There are many theories about who the NK is, it's a bit like a Nazgul, huh?)

But in Tolkien, what really hurts the Good side is not failure but betrayal, usually through recklessness. To cut to the chase here, Yara by Dany's side is there, for me, to pull her back from the abyss at the crucial moment. Ser Jorah might be there too, although I somehow feel Dany won't end up with a consort, and Jorah confessed his love.

Even more crudely, if Dany gets really close to Yara, she'll have a better chance of surviving the show! GOT needs a girl-girl romance. If you notice, of all the things people complained about in the first few years, it was straight-up screwing with white men that got chucked. (I except the tender love scene starring Sam.) No more Drogo vs. fucktoy, no more whores for Tyrion. Really even Ramsay Sue became more political and less fetishistic. 

I admit that Bran is my least favorite character (although the guy seems nice). So I don't have much of a sense of how Bran will channel this massive act of magic or whatever it turns out to be. There will be twists. The obvious confrontation between dragons and ice-creatures will take place, but will perhaps not be decisive. It's obvious that Bran has one job, so to speak.

Perhaps the end result will simply be an improvement in the weather. Maybe the Long Night won't be so long (I have never seen the astrophysical account of Planetos).

[illinifan]

8 hours ago, Kytheros said:

Jon being Rhaegar's son, if it can be proven to Daenerys's satisfaction, while not cause for an instant change of mind/heart about the Starks for Daenerys, would/should be enough to buy time to work on changing her position about mindlessly and obsessively hating the Starks.

Rhaegar's legitimate son has a much better claim on the Iron Throne than Dany.

[helter skelter]

Well dany is preparing to invade westeros with her rapers, barbarians and thiefs. She also have three dragons and it will be impossible for her to control more than one dragon. Dragons will burn innocent, ironborn and dothraki will rape innocent. I think it will be dany who is going to need some sympathy. Why should starks care if dany likes them? They have greater issues than who will cut her/himself on the iron throne.

[[Deleted]]

7 hours ago, illinifan said:

Rhaegar's legitimate son has a much better claim on the Iron Throne than Dany.

Huh? Who? Unless you are implying Lyanna and Rhaegar were married....?

[blckp]

On 6/25/2016 at 0:44 PM, illinifan said:

Rhaegar's legitimate son has a much better claim on the Iron Throne than Dany.

nope even if Rhaegar and Lyanna was married and approved by septon , Rhager is prince not king, Viserys was named heir after Rhaegars death  passing over Aegon, which Dany's claim comes from, only way Jon snow can have better claim than Dany is if he was trueborn and R+L was approved by septon and King Aerys naming Vesrys as heir after Rhaegars death is not true then Jon Snow will have better claim than Daenerys with rule son of first son comes before second son even then its still complicated and great consul needs to determine

by the way to those lovers of R+L marriage theory ,last Targaryen double marriage was 300 years ago which resulted septons rebellion after that its pretty much outlawed

Quote

Aegon I's younger son Maegor is the last Targaryen currently known to have had multiple wives. He had been married to Lady Ceryse Hightower in 25 AC. In 39 AC, he took Alys Harroway to wife in a Valyrian ceremony led by his mother, Dowager Queen Visenya Targaryen, after they could not find a septon to perform the marriage. This marriage upset the Faith,

 

as for Daenerys her claim is last living kid of king Aerys and Queen Raehella  ,and heir of Viserys and baratheons rule is illegitimate

[illinifan]

2 hours ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

Huh? Who? Unless you are implying Lyanna and Rhaegar were married....?

That is the assumption that most people go by with R+L=J.  And under the rules of succession the children of Rhaegar would inherit the Iron Throne before Rhaegar's siblings.  This of course doesn't mean anything.  

Spoiler

The succession rules don't prevent the Northern lords from declaring Jon KiTN.  Apparently, they say they don't care that he is a bastard. 

Dany has dragons which counts for more than the laws of succession.  It will be hilarious for Dany to go into her spiel about how the Iron Throne is hers by rights only for Tyrion or someone to point out this isn't the case.

[Sir Matthis Light]

4 hours ago, blckp said:

nope even if Rhaegar and Lyanna was married and approved by septon , Rhager is prince not king, Viserys was named heir after Rhaegars death  passing over Aegon, which Dany's claim comes from, only way Jon snow can have better claim than Dany is if he was trueborn and R+L was approved by septon and King Aerys naming Vesrys as heir after Rhaegars death is not true then Jon Snow will have better claim than Daenerys with rule son of first son comes before second son even then its still complicated and great consul needs to determine

by the way to those lovers of R+L marriage theory ,last Targaryen double marriage was 300 years ago which resulted septons rebellion after that its pretty much outlawed

 

as for Daenerys her claim is last living kid of king Aerys and Queen Raehella  ,and heir of Viserys and baratheons rule is illegitimate

Might=Right buddy and tn the words of Good King Joffrey:"My Father won the real war. He killed Prince Rhaegar, he took the crown!!!"

Robert, along with his allies, took the throne from the Targaryens , forcing the surviving members to fle,e and placed Robert upon it, thus starting a new Baratheon dynasty upon IT. Everyone of the Great Lords of the 7K swore fealty to the new King.( Not entirely sure if Dorne ever swore fealty, or just accepted his rule ) Sure he's a Usurper, but this makes the Baratheon rule legitimate. Since the Lannister pretty much usurp, the Usurpers throne, this makes Stannis the rightful King of the 7K.

But then again, like I said above, "Might=Right". Since Daenerys has a strong claim from Viserys, Unsullied warriors, a Dorthraki horde, Theon/Yara Greyjoy Fleet/Men, and three powerful Dragon's I'd say her MIGHT is about to be RIGHT. Tenfold 

[Count Winter]

14 hours ago, boodofmyblood said:

Jon vs Dany never made sense to me. I think, like Arya, some of Dany's perspectives have changed over the years. She realizes now that things aren't black and white. She took Tyrion onto Team Dany. She doesn't blame him for his family's actions. Same will happen with the Starks. I believe 100% Dany and Jon will ally themselves together. 

Agree with that, there is no sense in a battle between Dany and Jon. Jon still doesn't have the numbers to oppose Dany. The fight will be between the Others and Westeros. Westeros will be divided and there will be battles between opposing forcers. Let's see who still has the numbers to fight Dany: LF, Lannisters, Dorne, Tyrell....

[The Ice Wolf of Loki]

21 minutes ago, Count Winter said:

Agree with that, there is no sense in a battle between Dany and Jon. Jon still doesn't have the numbers to oppose Dany. The fight will be between the Others and Westeros. Westeros will be divided and there will be battles between opposing forcers. Let's see who still has the numbers to fight Dany: LF, Lannisters, Dorne, Tyrell....

The only real question if Jon is Rhaegar's legitimate heir is which of Dany or Jon will give up their claim in favour of the other or will they unite their separate claims via marriage, I don't see them going head to head. The realms will be united under House Targaryen to fight the War of the Dawn.

[Ser Micaelys]

It's a conversation I am looking forward to. Dany does some spiel about usurpers  and her birth right, maybe shove in some break the wheel thing. A stark turns around and tells her how it is, that if Roberts rebellion ended with usurpers  sitting on the throne then the real usurpers are the targaryens, foreigners who stole the kingdoms and could only hold them a few hundred years, with mad kings after another compared to the Starks who have ruled the north for thousands of years.

[blckp]

16 hours ago, Sir Matthis Light said:

Might=Right buddy and tn the words of Good King Joffrey:"My Father won the real war. He killed Prince Rhaegar, he took the crown!!!"

Robert, along with his allies, took the throne from the Targaryens , forcing the surviving members to fle,e and placed Robert upon it, thus starting a new Baratheon dynasty upon IT. Everyone of the Great Lords of the 7K swore fealty to the new King.( Not entirely sure if Dorne ever swore fealty, or just accepted his rule ) Sure he's a Usurper, but this makes the Baratheon rule legitimate. Since the Lannister pretty much usurp, the Usurpers throne, this makes Stannis the rightful King of the 7K.

But then again, like I said above, "Might=Right". Since Daenerys has a strong claim from Viserys, Unsullied warriors, a Dorthraki horde, Theon/Yara Greyjoy Fleet/Men, and three powerful Dragon's I'd say her MIGHT is about to be RIGHT. Tenfold 

what im saying is Daenerys claim was from her claiming baratheons rule illegitimate and viserys was true king, anyway i think at this point claim is useless instead she is in conquest mode and gathering army trying to conquer westeros so whether baratheons illegitimate or not doenst matter anymore

[Sir Matthis Light]

13 minutes ago, The Ice Wolf of Loki said:

The only real question if Jon is Rhaegar's legitimate heir is which of Dany or Jon will give up their claim in favour of the other or will they unite their separate claims via marriage, I don't see them going head to head. The realms will be united under House Targaryen to fight the War of the Dawn.

You know I used to be a firm believer in Jon being a Targaryen, since he wouldn't be the first Targaryen to not look like a traditional one. But nowadays I'm starting to lean more into believing he's still a bastard, a bastard of Fire and Ice. Just like if he a Targaryen he wouldn't be the first to not have the traditional Targ looks, he wouldn't be the first awesome bastard. Benedict Rivers turned King Justman, comes to mind.

I also believe Jon and Dany will become allies. Jon knows the WW are coming and has to make them his first priority. Danys gonna invade and once she get wind of the WW she gonna head north to take care of them. not sure how soon, but she will deal with them once she gets wind, and ally with her nephew.

[blckp]

16 hours ago, Count Winter said:

Agree with that, there is no sense in a battle between Dany and Jon. Jon still doesn't have the numbers to oppose Dany. The fight will be between the Others and Westeros. Westeros will be divided and there will be battles between opposing forcers. Let's see who still has the numbers to fight Dany: LF, Lannisters, Dorne, Tyrell....

no one has military might to fight Daenerys even combined westeros cant give her proper fight , she is in god mode in sense of battle power

[Sir Matthis Light]

10 minutes ago, blckp said:

what im saying is Daenerys claim was from her claiming baratheons rule illegitimate and viserys was true king, anyway i think at this point claim is useless instead she is in conquest mode and gathering army trying to conquer westeros so whether baratheons illegitimate or not doenst matter anymore

Thats why I said Might=Right, but claims do play apart( all tho a small part ) in rules.

But your right, at this point claims don't even matter. The Lannister have enemys all over and they don't even know about lmao.

[blckp]

16 hours ago, Sir Matthis Light said:

Thats why I said Might=Right, but claims do play apart( all tho a small part ) in rules.

But your right, at this point claims don't even matter. The Lannister have enemys all over and they don't even know about lmao.

i think 4 people trying to get iron throne currently ,

Daenerys

Euron

Little finger

Margaery (she seems given up on tommen)

+faith militant trying to control crown

+Sansa might join in game of throne

lannisters in deep shit now

 

[Count Winter]

57 minutes ago, blckp said:

no one has military might to fight Daenerys even combined westeros cant give her proper fight , she is in god mode in sense of battle power

True, but story wise that's not so interesting. I cannot believe GRRM has something up his sleeve for exactly that...

[permaximum]

There's a reason her advisors and she call herself Daenerys Stormborn. She's trying to place herself above Targaryen dynasty. And if she really breaks the rule of noble families, she will get my vote despite the horrible acting of Emilia Clarke.

And if she kills Sansa by some chance, she will be my favourite.

[Sir Matthis Light]

17 minutes ago, blckp said:

i think 4 people trying to get iron throne currently ,

Daenerys

Euron

Little finger

Margaery (she seems given up on tommen)

+faith militant trying to control crown

+Sansa might join in game of throne

lannisters in deep shit now

 

LF never said he wanted the Iron Throne.....Who am I kidding! This is the same guy who said "Chaos is a Ladder". And since we know the IT is at the top, well....

Margaery wanted to be Queen of the 7K, she is. Not to sure she wants to sit the Iron Throne cause that will never happen, unless she has 3dragons . Might be she wants to control Tommen and be a shadow behind the Throne like Cersei was and the now Faith.

The Faith is already in control of the IT, thanks to Cersei "The Cunning" , Tommen is to stupid gullible to realize hes just a puppet to the High Sparrow.

I don't know wtf Sansa plan now that her house is back in control of Winterfell, and just Winterfell and not the whole north. People forget that half the other northern house have yet to accept house Starks back.as the ruling family in the North.( But I believe that changes in tonight episode ) But regardless I doubt Sansa has any ambition to sit the IT, shes a girl!!!!

[Kytheros]

If R+L=J had a marriage, and Jon is legitimate, he would go in front of Daenerys in the Targaryen succession under normal circumstances.

First, the precedent was set that in the Targaryen succession to the Iron Throne, all legitimate males come before any legitimate females.

Second, even if you start from Viserys and use the succession from anywhere else - the brother's son comes before the sister per everywhere except the Iron Throne's succession and Dornish succession. Per the Dornish succession, the elder sibling's child comes before the younger sibling.

However, it would be extremely difficult to prove that Rhaegar and Lyanna were married.

Besides Dany has dragons. Jon does not currently have dragons. He likely will bond with one, thus proving his Targaryen blood, if not his legitimacy.

Dany's dragons, however, make the circumstances of determining the Targaryen succession not normal.