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Dany Now Has Two Stark Sympathizers By Her Side


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21 hours ago, Fexyr said:

Dany said she needs to marry someone to make alliances, and I think Jon is a good man for Dany to marry, he has the north by his side. And with Tyrion's opinion about him, I think she would accept that. Tho it's too good to be true someday... 

Something's definitely going to cause complications for that. Besides the whole White Walker invasion. That something is going to be Littlefinger's fault.

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I really don't think Dany anger at Starks will be much of an issue in the show or at least it shouldn't be with how the show has made things. Unlike in the book, Dany  fully recognizes & acknowledges how crazy her father was. I can't remember if she's been told about how Brandon & Rickard died but once she learns that she's not going to hold the Rebellion against the Starks especially the kids who had nothing to do with it, not with the way her personality has been set up in the show. This is one thing that the book hasn't done yet that the show did a good of. In the book she seems to have an idea of all of her father's crazy but no one has really spelled it out for her yet like show Tyrion does. Selmy seems reluctant to do it. 

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On 6/27/2016 at 7:29 AM, blckp said:

if starks refuses to kneel, she can obliterate them in less than 2 minute literately , do you understand colossal power difference between them?

Unless something crazy happens like they meet on the field and Jon finds out he can he can take control of Rhaegal or Viserion from her (since the show seems to have established that Dany's bond with Drogon is almost psychic, it doesn't seem a stretch to me anymore that Jon could come face to face with one of her dragons and the same thing would occur). It wouldn't equalize them but it would make a pretty big difference in whatever negotiations that take place between them. 

But yeah as of right now Dany holds all of the cards and Jon needs her help more than she needs him. 

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On 27. 6. 2016 at 5:44 AM, El Guapo said:

I hate to break it to you but if Jon and Dany happen in the show it is probably happening in the books too.  I mean I am with you, I don't want to see it happen because Dany can do so much better than that bore whore but the forshadowing in the books is there for it.

oh and lol at Jon ever being in a position to behead Dany.

Like who? Euron, Sweeetrobin or Tyrion? Rhaegar was also moody fella much like Jon and well she admired him.

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Dany has the numbers, but Starks have the winter. Lion's share of Dany's armies are people from Southern hemisphere, who aren't accustomed to Northern climate. Not to mention that we have no idea what influence might winter have on dragons. Lastly, it is not Jon who needs help with WW, it is the world, so Dany will have to decide who the real enemy is. 

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Show Jon right now is probably show Westeros's most eligible bachelor right now. Young, handsome, great warrior, and king of the North with allegiances to the Vale and probably Riverlands, if the Freys fall to disarray and Tullys come back to power.

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On 6/25/2016 at 7:44 PM, boodofmyblood said:

That's not how he phrased it. He basically said "I thought those families hated each other" after Tyrion told that joke, and Tyrion says yes. He wasn't suggesting the Starks were Dany's enemies, just that that's how those families see each other back in Westeros. 

I agree with this interpretation totally

 

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On 6/28/2016 at 1:38 PM, Kytheros said:

Something's definitely going to cause complications for that. Besides the whole White Walker invasion. That something is going to be Littlefinger's fault.

Yes, my problem is that I agree that it won't be that difficult to sell an allegiance with the Starks to Dany, however, as the narrative goes I wonder who is going to be the antagonist until the White Walkers fully kick ass.  I mean Cersei cannot plausibly present much of a challenge and there has to be something or we will be bored to tears.  Now what this is likely to be I cannot yet fathom.  That last episode felt to me more like almost the end of the whole story and almost a happy ending minus some deaths etc.  I guess we will have to wait and see but there has to be something that challenges Dany prior to the White Walkers full invasion...

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On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 3:58 AM, Smoke317 said:

Also Varys was there when Ned resigned his position as hand because he wouldn't go along with having Dany and her baby killed. Problem is Varys was the one who probably sent out the order. But he also may have been the one to alert Jorah and thus had him able to stop the assassination. Did Varys know Jorah would stop the attempt?  How will Dany feel about Varys?  Kinda funny how he left just before Dany returned to Mereen. I think that's a conversation Varys would rather not risk having anytime soon. 

Varys was a Targaryen double agent. While he was on Roberts small council he was secretly working to reinstate the Targaryen dynasty. He made sure that assassins were only sent out after Daenerys had moved on, which is why she lived for so long. Robert was sending out his own assasins though, eventually one got close enough to her.

There was another one later on, but that one had been sent by the house of the undying.

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On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 9:32 AM, Aegonzo The Great said:

I had a crackpot theory before this season that the Starks and the Others would actually wind up on the same side. I thought Benjen had already joined them, the Three Eyed Raven was working for them, and it was just a simple matter of converting the other Starks to the cause. Dany would arrive in Westeros to fight against the Others and the Starks, and that is when Jon's Targaryen lineage would come into play as he would betray the side of Ice and join the Fire.

Needless to say, after this season, the pot is no longer cracked, it is shattered into a million pieces. I'm still a little disappointed that the Others are simply going to turn out to be bad guys just for the sake of being bad guys, but so it goes.

It won't be that simple. IMO it is going to turn out that the Night King is Rhaegar himself, plus Daenerys will be the child of Rhaegar and Ashara.

So it will be brother/sister fighting a corrupted undead father in fulfillment of an ancient prophecy. Rhaegar did not die at the trident, it will turn out to be someone else under a ruby glamor. Rhaegar would have gone beyond the wall to fulfill his destiny, but got turned into a white walker by the children. He became their warrior general, but got out of their control when he became obsessed with revenge (just like Lady Stoneheart did after she was resurrected).

Essentially the story will be star wars played out in medieval society, with Jon being Luke Skywalker, Daenerys being Princess Leia, and Rhaegar being Darth Vader. Darth Vader was their father, but became corrupted by the dark side. They were spirited off an raised by different families. Leia as a princess, and Luke being raised by an uncle and aunt. I think the same sort of story (generally) will play out in the show as well.

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On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 0:44 PM, illinifan said:

Rhaegar's legitimate son has a much better claim on the Iron Throne than Dany.

Actually, not.

There would have to be witnesses to the fact that he actually was Rhaegar's child, and there are none still living. He would also require Rhaegar's acknowledgement (Lyanna's would not do, and that is the best that could be hoped for). Unfortunately Rhaegar was dead when he was born, so there is no way for that to happen.

Then there would also be the rules of succession in Westerosi society, which would likely correspond to medieval society. In general, a bastard would not inherit anything. There were a few instances in early medieval society when bastards did inherit titles, but those were few in number, were always contested, and always involved a child acknowledged by the father after he was born.

If Daenerys is true born (and not a bastard herself, which is possible based on various things in the books), she would be the rightful heir of the Targaryen legacy. If she is a bastard, and a sister to Jon, then his claim would precedence over hers, although both of them would have a very weak legal claim and would require force of arms to take the crown. If both of them were Rhaegar's bastards, then actually Robert would probably have been the trueborn king after Viserys died.

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On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 10:13 PM, illinifan said:

That is the assumption that most people go by with R+L=J.  And under the rules of succession the children of Rhaegar would inherit the Iron Throne before Rhaegar's siblings.  This of course doesn't mean anything.  

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The succession rules don't prevent the Northern lords from declaring Jon KiTN.  Apparently, they say they don't care that he is a bastard. 

Dany has dragons which counts for more than the laws of succession.  It will be hilarious for Dany to go into her spiel about how the Iron Throne is hers by rights only for Tyrion or someone to point out this isn't the case.

Anyone can be declared king by acclamation. Jon did not inherit the title, it was given to him. Robb's rebellion had been suppressed and the north pacified. That meant that Robb's title was extinct, and a new one created for Jon.

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On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 1:12 PM, Risto said:

Dany has the numbers, but Starks have the winter. Lion's share of Dany's armies are people from Southern hemisphere, who aren't accustomed to Northern climate. Not to mention that we have no idea what influence might winter have on dragons. Lastly, it is not Jon who needs help with WW, it is the world, so Dany will have to decide who the real enemy is. 

All she needs to do is burn their castles down with her dragons. That is what happened to Harrenhal, the mightiest castle in Westeros at the time, when Aegon invaded. Jon would be crushed in a week.

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3 minutes ago, tugela said:

All she needs to do is burn their castles down with her dragons. That is what happened to Harrenhal, the mightiest castle in Westeros at the time, when Aegon invaded. Jon would be crushed in a week.

Winter Storms should shut Dragons down pretty hard.

But yes, the threat of dragons demolishing castles is a very good reason to look for a way to make a deal with Dany. And the potential utility of dragons against the White Walkers and the wights is another.

But her armies from Essos? No, those are not much of a concern to the North.

 

11 minutes ago, tugela said:

Actually, not.

There would have to be witnesses to the fact that he actually was Rhaegar's child, and there are none still living. He would also require Rhaegar's acknowledgement (Lyanna's would not do, and that is the best that could be hoped for). Unfortunately Rhaegar was dead when he was born, so there is no way for that to happen.

Then there would also be the rules of succession in Westerosi society, which would likely correspond to medieval society. In general, a bastard would not inherit anything. There were a few instances in early medieval society when bastards did inherit titles, but those were few in number, were always contested, and always involved a child acknowledged by the father after he was born.

If Daenerys is true born (and not a bastard herself, which is possible based on various things in the books), she would be the rightful heir of the Targaryen legacy. If she is a bastard, and a sister to Jon, then his claim would precedence over hers, although both of them would have a very weak legal claim and would require force of arms to take the crown. If both of them were Rhaegar's bastards, then actually Robert would probably have been the trueborn king after Viserys died.

Actually, yes, Rhaegar's trueborn(ie, legitimate) son would have a better claim to the Iron Throne than Dany, at least in theory. The problem is that it's going to be damned near impossible to prove that legitimacy at all, much less prove legitimacy to broad satisfaction/belief and/or Dany's skepticism. Besides, Dany having dragons is a pretty solid and compelling reason to disregard any minor irregularities about what her position in the Targaryen succession is technically "supposed" to be (precedents have been set that trueborn female Targaryens are passed over in the order of succession if there are trueborn male Targaryens).

It'd be difficult enough to prove that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's bastard son, but that is the logical conclusion once one believes that Jon is actually Lyanna's son. At least, without Jon bonding with a dragon - that would pretty conclusively prove that he was part Targaryen, and so that'd probably be sufficient to prove he's Rhaegar and Lyanna's bastard son, even to Dany. But even Jon bonding with a dragon doesn't do a thing to prove legitimacy.

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16 hours ago, Kytheros said:

Winter Storms should shut Dragons down pretty hard.

But yes, the threat of dragons demolishing castles is a very good reason to look for a way to make a deal with Dany. And the potential utility of dragons against the White Walkers and the wights is another.

But her armies from Essos? No, those are not much of a concern to the North.

 

Actually, yes, Rhaegar's trueborn(ie, legitimate) son would have a better claim to the Iron Throne than Dany, at least in theory. The problem is that it's going to be damned near impossible to prove that legitimacy at all, much less prove legitimacy to broad satisfaction/belief and/or Dany's skepticism. Besides, Dany having dragons is a pretty solid and compelling reason to disregard any minor irregularities about what her position in the Targaryen succession is technically "supposed" to be (precedents have been set that trueborn female Targaryens are passed over in the order of succession if there are trueborn male Targaryens).

It'd be difficult enough to prove that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's bastard son, but that is the logical conclusion once one believes that Jon is actually Lyanna's son. At least, without Jon bonding with a dragon - that would pretty conclusively prove that he was part Targaryen, and so that'd probably be sufficient to prove he's Rhaegar and Lyanna's bastard son, even to Dany. But even Jon bonding with a dragon doesn't do a thing to prove legitimacy.

actually no , Viserys was last targaryen king and his heir is Daenerys so rhaegars line has nothing to do

 

funny thing is Viserys and Robert crowned in same year and died same year,

Robert (the Usurper) - king from 283AL-298AL

Viserys (the Beggar King) -king from 283AL-298AL

viserys : robert is usurper not legit and robert : viserys is exile with no right , i conquered iron throne

by targaryen line its Daenerys as she was named  heir by Viserys

by baratheon line its messy - Jaime,or Daenerys, or Gendry or some other relatives from somewhere

 

 

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1 hour ago, tugela said:

All she needs to do is burn their castles down with her dragons. That is what happened to Harrenhal, the mightiest castle in Westeros at the time, when Aegon invaded. Jon would be crushed in a week.

And the difference between Drogon and Balerion is more than 98 years although I am not sure whether the show follows the logic GRRM used in his books. The thing is that Dany should not be just burning things, because at the end she will be Queen of ashes. 

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35 minutes ago, blckp said:

actually no , Viserys was last targaryen king and his heir is Daenerys so rhaegars line has nothing to do

 

funny thing is Viserys and Robert crowned in same year and died same year,

viserys : robert is usurper not legit and robert : viserys is exile with no right

 

 

The precedent for the succession to the Iron Throne has largely been set that females are passed over for any trueborn male, no matter what their lineage is.

Trueborn Son of Rhaegar > Rhaegar's Sister.

Trueborn Brother's Son > Sister.

Normally, of course. Daenerys's dragon's are a compelling reason to set aside those prior precedents.

However, in a vacuum, the brother's son of the previous king is considered to come before the sister of the previous king in the "normal" determination of order of succession. However, the Targaryen succession is hardly a normal situation - the male claimant (Jon) doesn't know he even has a claim to make at the moment (and neither does almost anybody else) nor is it likely he can prove it, and the female claimant has dragons.

 

Dany is the de facto Targaryen heir of Viserys, even though a trueborn Jon would/should be the de jure Targaryen heir of Viserys.

However, as I said, proving Jon's legitimacy to anyone, much less Daenerys's skepticism, would be nearly impossible. Plus, Daenerys has dragons, and is unlikely to accept someone else being ahead of her in the Targaryen succession. As such, Jon (trueborn or bastard) is likely to end up as the Targaryen Heir to Daenerys once she accepts that he's Rhaegar's son (trueborn or bastard), and might end up getting married to her for political/dynastic reasons - it means that the North (and any other lands swearing fealty or alliance to the King in the North, such as possibly the Riverlands and Vale) will be peaceably reunited with the Iron Throne, and firmly settles any issues with the Targaryen succession in their children.

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16 hours ago, Kytheros said:

The precedent for the succession to the Iron Throne has largely been set that females are passed over for any trueborn male, no matter what their lineage is.

Trueborn Son of Rhaegar > Rhaegar's Sister.

Trueborn Brother's Son > Sister.

Normally, of course. Daenerys's dragon's are a compelling reason to set aside those prior precedents.

However, in a vacuum, the brother's son of the previous king is considered to come before the sister of the previous king in the "normal" determination of order of succession. However, the Targaryen succession is hardly a normal situation - the male claimant (Jon) doesn't know he even has a claim to make at the moment (and neither does almost anybody else) nor is it likely he can prove it, and the female claimant has dragons.

 

Dany is the de facto Targaryen heir of Viserys, even though a trueborn Jon would/should be the de jure Targaryen heir of Viserys.

However, as I said, proving Jon's legitimacy to anyone, much less Daenerys's skepticism, would be nearly impossible. Plus, Daenerys has dragons, and is unlikely to accept someone else being ahead of her in the Targaryen succession. As such, Jon (trueborn or bastard) is likely to end up as the Targaryen Heir to Daenerys once she accepts that he's Rhaegar's son (trueborn or bastard), and might end up getting married to her for political/dynastic reasons - it means that the North (and any other lands swearing fealty or alliance to the King in the North, such as possibly the Riverlands and Vale) will be peaceably reunited with the Iron Throne, and firmly settles any issues with the Targaryen succession in their children.

nope,you ignoring she is the named heir while going succession , she is the named heir by last king not through line succession heir so there is no contender for her claim unless other can try usurp her claim through rebellion , like aegon III usurped his half sister (named heir) and killed her which is known as dance of dragons , 

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