Dany Now Has Two Stark Sympathizers By Her Side

[blckp]

22 hours ago, illinifan said:

Yes.  FAegon is a fake.  Hence, fake Aegon.  But if he was real and suddenly showed up, he would have had the best claim to the throne.  That is what FAegon and Jon Con believe although he is not really Aegon.  

And it is ridiculous to think that a man who had gone so mad and paranoid that he was shouting "burn it all down" had papers drawn up disinheriting his eldest son and grandson in favor of his second son.

no he wouldn't cause succession line goes through viserys, there also some targrayen supports was too, they know the truth , and daenerys knows since she was viserys named heir, pretty sure aegon will die at hand of daenerys if he took iron throne and usurp her rightful claim,   aerys gone full crazy during sack of KL and opened gate for tywin, before that when news about rhaegar reached him, he crowned viserys then he took hostage of aegon and elia against dorne and ordered to place wildfire under red keep,then sent away viserys and rhaella

[illinifan]

17 minutes ago, blckp said:

no he wouldn't cause succession line goes through viserys, there also some targrayen supports was too, they know the truth , and daenerys knows since she was viserys named heir, pretty sure aegon will die at hand of daenerys if he took iron throne and usurp her rightful claim,   aerys gone full crazy during sack of KL and opened gate for tywin, before that when news about rhaegar reached him, he crowned viserys then he took hostage of aegon and elia against dorne and ordered to place wildfire under red keep,then sent away viserys and rhaella

Why the hell do you think that Aerys who was going so crazy that his Rhaegar was going to depose him in some sort of Great Council would have had the foresight to put together such a succession scheme?  It strikes me as unlikely.  

[Hodor's Dragon]

It always made the most narrative sense that Dany and the Starks would ultimately cooperate.  Too much is made of a throwaway lines about Userper's dogs - WAY too much - when we know that (1) she really doesn't know a damned thing about the Starks, and (2) she is always willing to listen and judge on the facts.  She won't go to war against a powerful house because of some wet-nurse stories she heard as a child if the facts don't bear the stories out.

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

On 25 juin 2016 at 9:12 AM, Aegonzo The Great said:

Dany, who seems to not have a very good opinion of the Starks, having mentioned them by name several times when talking about her plots for Westeros, may end up singing a different tune in the near future.

She now has Theon Greyjoy with her, who can tell her what it was like growing up at Winterfell, how Ned raised him like a son and did not treat him like a slave (very important!), and how the family as a whole was good and noble. Theon can also tell Dany of the horrors that were dones to Sansa Stark, which with Dany's extreme female prejudice, might help to sway her sympathies at least toward Sansa.

Then we also have Tyrion, who left Jon Snow on amicable terms, admitted to having a soft spot in his heart for Bran, and yes also got to witness horrors being done to Sansa. He can also tell how Ned was betrayed and executed.

Both can also tell her about the Red Wedding.

I long thought the end game was going to be Jon against Dany, but if Dany can be swayed into realizing that not all Westoerosi families are bad, she may be inclined to at least give team Winterfell a chance.

Thoughts?

Good post... But, as far back as I can remember, Tyrion didn't object when Grey Worm said " Starks, Lannisters... Those are enemies..." (Tyrion's Joke) 

so how can grey worm have that information? From Missandei? Don't think so... Varys? Not sure they weren't seen together as much as with Tyrion... So I reckon Jon will have to prove  himself. DANY would probably like to examine herself... IMO

[Zoo_Dane]

It's interesting that you mentioned Danys "extreme female prejudice". 

 

It it looks an awful lot like Sansa and Jon will be involved in some sort of power struggle, Sansa may try to subvert Jon. LF puts the thought in her mind that she is the most fit to lead the Starks and after Jon is declared KitN, LF and Sansa share an interesting look. 

 

With this in mind and the fact that Dany is willing to support Yara solely because she's a woman (Euron has more ships and men, she knows nothing of neither Yara nor Euron). Would/Could Sansa join Dany and Yara and offer her support in exchange for the North at some point? 

[nothatso]

7 minutes ago, Zoo_Dane said:

With this in mind and the fact that Dany is willing to support Yara solely because she's a woman (Euron has more ships and men, she knows nothing of neither Yara nor Euron). Would/Could Sansa join Dany and Yara and offer her support in exchange for the North at some point? 

If Euron had gotten to Dany first and spun his side of the story, Dany would probably be sailing back with him. Yara got there first, and Dany needed ships, so Dany is with Yara. It's that simple. Considering it's a male (Victarion) Greyjoy heading to Dany instead of Asha/Yara in the books, I really don't think this needs to be read any further into. She's not with Yara because she wants to replace all male authority figures with female ones. She's with Yara because it was convenient.

[WolfOfWinter]

Why on earth would Jon marry his barren aunt when he needs to sire an heir as King in the North? If the situation is so dire in Westeros once they actually meet each other that it's not convenient to procreate, then they won't need to marry anyway and can just form an alliance because the fate of the world rests on them defeating the Others.

There are only 13 episodes left and Dany will likely spend all of next season in the south with the Wall coming down in the finale, which means Dany and Jon will meet up, marry and fall in love in the span of six episodes with Jon getting over whatever disgust he has concerning incest?

There likely won't be a conflict because there's not enough time, but OP is only going by what Dany will think of the Starks and not the reverse. Theon saved Sansa's life, but the Ironborn have been pillaging and raping their way through the North for years, with Yara at the forefront. Lord Glover had his castle taken from him by them. And Tyrion is a Lannister who armed the hill tribes to better attack the Vale. The Starks might like individuals but their men have no cause to do the same. 

There's nothing bittersweet about hot fan favorites hooking up, defeating the incarnation of pure evil and then ruling together.

[nothatso]

1 hour ago, WolfOfWinter said:

Why on earth would Jon marry his barren aunt when he needs to sire an heir as King in the North? If the situation is so dire in Westeros once they actually meet each other that it's not convenient to procreate, then they won't need to marry anyway and can just form an alliance because the fate of the world rests on them defeating the Others.

There are only 13 episodes left and Dany will likely spend all of next season in the south with the Wall coming down in the finale, which means Dany and Jon will meet up, marry and fall in love in the span of six episodes with Jon getting over whatever disgust he has concerning incest?

There likely won't be a conflict because there's not enough time, but OP is only going by what Dany will think of the Starks and not the reverse. Theon saved Sansa's life, but the Ironborn have been pillaging and raping their way through the North for years, with Yara at the forefront. Lord Glover had his castle taken from him by them. And Tyrion is a Lannister who armed the hill tribes to better attack the Vale. The Starks might like individuals but their men have no cause to do the same. 

There's nothing bittersweet about hot fan favorites hooking up, defeating the incarnation of pure evil and then ruling together.

I don't really care whether it happens or not as long as it's well written (and it certainly can be either way), but I think the plausibility is quite clearly there. Who says they'd need to fall in love in a short span anyway? (ignoring the rapidity with which we're flying through a condensed timeline) Or at all? Love isn't needed for a marriage alliance. And why is an incestuous relationship too cliche? Maybe I just don't buy the argument because of all the years of hearing people say R+L=J is too predictable and cliche as well. That still happened.

I also don't understand why people view the prospect of this happening in a bubble. George wants a bittersweet ending for the story as a whole, he didn't say that each individual character arc has to be bittersweet. Some will be bitter, some sweet, some both. He also said he likes the bittersweet ending of LotR. How bitter was that for the main characters? People really should stop using "George wants a bittersweet ending!" as an argument against everything with a positive connotation to it that they don't personally like. I swear, if every other named character dies horrifically, but Jon and Dany marry and survive, there will still be some angsty troll on the internet still complaining about it being too cliche.

Whether or not Dany is barren is entirely up for debate, and has been for some time. Nobody seems to be able to come up with a citation from the show mentioning her being barren (though I welcome a correction), and in the books it appears she had a miscarriage at the end of the fifth book.

Lastly, if GRRM actually intends for a "Wars of the Roses" style ending to the political aspect of the story, then I can certainly see where a Dany and Jon marriage would fit into that. Having said all that, I also acknowledge the plausibility of either or both of them dying. I just don't know why the prospect of them marrying is so upsetting to people.

[dbunting]

6 hours ago, nothatso said:

Lastly, if GRRM actually intends for a "Wars of the Roses" style ending to the political aspect of the story, then I can certainly see where a Dany and Jon marriage would fit into that. Having said all that, I also acknowledge the plausibility of either or both of them dying. I just don't know why the prospect of them marrying is so upsetting to people.

Right, and Dany did specifically mention as one of her reasons that Daahrio couldn't come to Westeros being that she would likely need to marry for alliance. Who better in Westeros to marry right now?

Jaime, head of Lannister family now? Hell no, he killed her father

Tyrell, nope male heir just roasted

Dorne, nope they killed their prince and his heir

Dickon Tarly? Maybe

Bronn! uh no

Sweet Robin, again, no

A lesser Noerthern lord, why marry a lesser one?

Little finger? He has a lot of power right now, but it's only given to him by the crown, he has no army of his own or is a head of a great house, yes Harrenhal is his but it is barren and was given to him.

Tornund? HAR!

Jon is the logical marriage. Northerner who came up a Stark but (might be) revealed to actually be Rheagars legitimate son(the whispered name could end in Targaryen). Who was just named King in the North by all of the Northern houses not because of his name, he is a Snow, but because of his actions. Just the kind of person Dany respects.

[Juan_Snow]

On 7/3/2016 at 6:28 AM, blckp said:

actually no , Viserys was last targaryen king and his heir is Daenerys so rhaegars line has nothing to do

 

Actually because of the Dance of Dragons, all Legitimate Male Targaryians come before any Female claim.  Rhaegars line if he were to still have a legitimate heir wandering around would absolutely come before Dany.

It's kind of pointless to get caught up on this though because none of that really matters.  The lady with three Dragons and the huge army gets the throne if she wants it because right of conquest trumps all law.  Right now there is no Westerosi army that could even slow Dany down much less defeat her.  She has no idea what the actual threat is.

[blckp]

16 hours ago, Juan_Snow said:

Actually because of the Dance of Dragons, all Legitimate Male Targaryians come before any Female claim.  Rhaegars line if he were to still have a legitimate heir wandering around would absolutely come before Dany.

It's kind of pointless to get caught up on this though because none of that really matters.  The lady with three Dragons and the huge army gets the throne if she wants it because right of conquest trumps all law.  Right now there is no Westerosi army that could even slow Dany down much less defeat her.  She has no idea what the actual threat is.

no , chosen/named heir comes before all other heirs, like Viserys

[Lord Friendzone]

1 hour ago, dbunting said:

Right, and Dany did specifically mention as one of her reasons that Daahrio couldn't come to Westeros being that she would likely need to marry for alliance. Who better in Westeros to marry right now?

Jaime, head of Lannister family now? Hell no, he killed her father

Tyrell, nope male heir just roasted

Dorne, nope they killed their prince and his heir

Dickon Tarly? Maybe

Bronn! uh no

Sweet Robin, again, no

A lesser Noerthern lord, why marry a lesser one?

Little finger? He has a lot of power right now, but it's only given to him by the crown, he has no army of his own or is a head of a great house, yes Harrenhal is his but it is barren and was given to him.

Tornund? HAR!

Jon is the logical marriage. Northerner who came up a Stark but (might be) revealed to actually be Rheagars legitimate son(the whispered name could end in Targaryen). Who was just named King in the North by all of the Northern houses not because of his name, he is a Snow, but because of his actions. Just the kind of person Dany respects.

She can fly with her dragons and burn their strongholds. Of course we don't how winter affects dragons. But war might not be best option which is where Tyrion comes in. People are working with an idea Jon will still be King. Who knows with LF around.

[illinifan]

1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said:

She can fly with her dragons and burn their strongholds. Of course we don't how winter affects dragons. But war might not be best option which is where Tyrion comes in. People are working with an idea Jon will still be King. Who knows with LF around.

The books and show have both gone out of their way to make dragons not be the end all and be all.  That was what the Meereen arc was about.  Dany could burn Winterfell to the ground but she cannot rule just with dragons and conquering.  If she wants peace, she needs an alliance.

[[Deleted]]

1 hour ago, illinifan said:

The books and show have both gone out of their way to make dragons not be the end all and be all.  That was what the Meereen arc was about.  Dany could burn Winterfell to the ground but she cannot rule just with dragons and conquering.  If she wants peace, she needs an alliance.

Er, I'm not sure. She chained up her dragons to keep the people happy, but when the chips were down, her dragons pretty much single handedly won her a battle where she was hugely outgunned.

[illinifan]

5 minutes ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

Er, I'm not sure. She chained up her dragons to keep the people happy, but when the chips were down, her dragons pretty much single handedly won her a battle where she was hugely outgunned.

She was facing rebellion already.

[[Deleted]]

5 minutes ago, illinifan said:

She was facing rebellion already.

She was. But the message seems to be:

Plan A: Try ruling by politics, negotiation, all that.

Plan B: DRAGONS!

She can try to be nice, but if things start going poorly, she'll just roast anyone who doesn't see things her way. This seems to be what she's learned and how she operates. How that translates to Westeros remains to be seen.

[Slaysman]

I think it will be funny if all the dragons go to Jon since Dany was just watching them for him anyway.

[Grey_Wolfe]

My theory.

After disposing of Cercei (in which Jaime will ultimately stop her from flicking the switch) Dany will gather the remaining forces and the unbaked Lannister army to head north after hearing that Stark separatists have anointed a bastard for a king to enforce her claim to the entire westeros throne. She will arrive, Jon and co will go ' o shite' when they see her dragons, they will meet with Jon who will try to convince her that the Others are the true threat and will/are invading. Bran appears and says 'by the way Jon your hearts desire is true, you are a Stark, and mumbles Targaryen. Dany gets agitated that her claim could be challenge and insists on proof. Jon somehow ends up on a dragon or simply scratches one  under the chin and Dany is both rejoiced she has family and concerned Jon may have a better claim. Both agree to settle it after the big undead fight and Tyrion realises that he could scratch dragon chins as well.  

 

By the way hi, my first post after reading the forums for a few months o/

[TheKnightOfJests]

I think Jon will offer marriage to her to cement her claim in exchange for her help in the war against the WW, and The North being made independent after said war.

If both live, we'll be left open to whether or not it was a happy and loving marriage, or a bitter distorted one in the years after the shows end.

[Raeslewolhn]

On 6/25/2016 at 11:11 AM, Cron said:

@Aegonzo The Great:

Lots of good stuff in your post, but Jon against Dany? Why would that happen?  Dany wants the Iron Throne, and Jon has no interest in that and never has had any interest in that.

Also, in addition to the good food for thought you raised, let's not forget that Barristan Selmy told Dany (in Season 5, I believe) that the Mad King was in fact crazy and bad (which Dany acknowledged she understood just last week in Episode 609, when she was talking to Tyrion, Theon, and "Yara" and said something like they all had bad fathers).  I believe Dany's understanding of that took a lot of the wind out of her "revenge" sails anyway (not that that will change her belief that the Iron Throne is hers by right, though)

Exactly. One house she doesn't have to worry about. Likely Lannister, Frey and whoever they conquered or brought into the fold will fight her. Everyone else will be open and then see she is reasonable and just. She just has to keep the dragons under control and everything will be fine.