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tugela

Drink from the cup of ice....drink from the cup of fire...

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  I have been thinking about Daenerys's experiences in the house of the undying, and in particular, this part:

Quote

 

“I have come for the gift of truth,” Dany said. “In the long hall, the things I saw... were they true visions, or lies? Past things, or things to come? What did they mean?”
...the shape of shadows... morrows not yet made... drink from the cup of ice... drink from the
cup of fire...
...mother of dragons... child of three...
“Three?” She did not understand.
...three heads has the dragon... the ghost chorus yarnmered inside her skull with never a lip
moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air....

 

So what exactly does the "drink from the cup of xxxx" actually mean.

I was re-reading GoT Catelyn II, and came across this passage: 

Quote

 

     That brought a bitter twist to Ned's mouth. "Brandon. Yes. Brandon would known what to do. He always did. It was all meant for Brandon. You, Winterfell, everything. He was born to be a King's Hand and a father to queens. I never asked for this cup to pass to me."

      "Perhaps not," Catelyn said, "but Brandon is dead, and the cup has passed, and you must drink from it, like it or not"

 

So, what it appears that it is a metaphor for passing down responsibility through family. If the same metaphor is used for Daenerys, then the cup of fire and cup of ice must refer to her mother and father, and she is responsible for carrying on their legacy. The cup of fire would be Rhaegar, and the cup of ice would be Lyanna. Drinking from both would be accepting and carrying out the familial responsibilities of both houses. That is what she has to do.

Edited by tugela

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6 hours ago, tugela said:

  I have been thinking about Daenerys's experiences in the house of the undying, and in particular, this part:

So what exactly does the "drink from the cup of xxxx" actually mean.

I was re-reading GoT Catelyn II, and came across this passage: 

So, what it appears that it is a metaphor for passing down responsibility through family. If the same metaphor is used for Daenerys, then the cup of fire and cup of ice must refer to her mother and father, and she is responsible for carrying on their legacy. The cup of fire would be Rhaegar, and the cup of ice would be Lyanna. Drinking from both would be accepting and carrying out the familial responsibilities of both houses. That is what she has to do.

Good catch.  Could be.  But I'm not convinced of your interpretation   At the end of ADWD it seems pretty clear that Dany recognizes she is not made to rule and not made to settle down and grow life but conquer and bring revolutionary change to both Essos and Westeros.

"Drink from the cup of fire, drink from the Cup of Ice..."might mearly be interpreted as advice that Dany will need to utilize both these aspects at different junctures to succeed.

But it might be a reference to Jon as he physically embodies both Ice and Fire through his parents.  Could mean something as simple as "heed Jon's words" or  "marry Jon." 

Edited by TheReal_Rebel
Punctuation

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I have always been confused by the nature of those visions.  I have always wondered why the Warlocks would show her anything helpful to her.

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3 hours ago, TheReal_Rebel said:

 

But it might be a reference to Jon as he physically embodies both Ice and Fire through his parentage:  could mean something as simple as "heed Jon's words" or  "marry Jon." 

I like this.

But I think the two drinks are...

Fire = Aegon

Ice = Jon

She will marry both to unite against the long night.

 

Edited by Pastaeyes

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3 hours ago, gregg22 said:

I have always been confused by the nature of those visions.  I have always wondered why the Warlocks would show her anything helpful to her.

The Warlocks didn't.  They merely gave her the drink.  The visions came from Dany herself and/or Quaithe.

There is a theory that Quaithe is Dany's mother or  possibly another female related to Dany.  This has been postulated by Lady Gwen of Radio Westeros due to the fact Quaithe eyes are wet with tears when she meets  Dany.

 

Edited by TheReal_Rebel

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2 hours ago, Pastaeyes said:

I like this.

But I think the two drinks are...

Fire = Aegon

Ice = Jon

She will marry both to unite against the long night.

 

Not if Jon's real name is Aegon and Connington's is a Fake or FAegeon, as he is generally considered.  If he's a Blackfyre Targaryean and Ilyrio's son it is unlikely Dany will make a marriage alliance with him.

 

Edited by TheReal_Rebel

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6 hours ago, tugela said:

  I have been thinking about Daenerys's experiences in the house of the undying, and in particular, this part:

So what exactly does the "drink from the cup of xxxx" actually mean.

I was re-reading GoT Catelyn II, and came across this passage: 

So, what it appears that it is a metaphor for passing down responsibility through family. If the same metaphor is used for Daenerys, then the cup of fire and cup of ice must refer to her mother and father, and she is responsible for carrying on their legacy. The cup of fire would be Rhaegar, and the cup of ice would be Lyanna. Drinking from both would be accepting and carrying out the familial responsibilities of both houses. That is what she has to do.

Or the cup of ice is Ned and the cup of fire is Ashara Dayne, her real parents. Add all the wolf references in her tent visions, and for me it is more plausible.

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6 hours ago, Scorpion92 said:

Or the cup of ice is Ned and the cup of fire is Ashara Dayne, her real parents. Add all the wolf references in her tent visions, and for me it is more plausible.

The problem with that is the Daynes have nothing to do with fire as far as we know. Their big schtick is the falling star.

Also, if Daenerys came from Ned/Brandon and Ashara, there would be no link to the Targaryens, and it would be hard to explain how she came to be the apparent daughter of Rhaella. That becomes more reasonable if Rhaegar has passed on the cup of fire to her.

There is also the "child of three" reference, implying that she has three parents. Obviously that is not physically possible, but it could mean that she is the child of a union hatched up by three people, two of who would be Lyanna and Rhaegar, with Ashara possibly as the third.

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On 6/25/2016 at 4:48 AM, tugela said:

  I have been thinking about Daenerys's experiences in the house of the undying, and in particular, this part:

So what exactly does the "drink from the cup of xxxx" actually mean.

At the HotU, Dany drank shade of evening that enabled her too see the visions.

Quote

Long and low, without towers or windows, it coiled like a stone serpent through a grove of black-barked trees whose inky blue-leaves made the stuff of the sorcerous drink the Qartheen called shade of the evening

Black and Blue. The effects experienced by Dany upon drinking this are italicized.

Quote

Upon it rested a slender crystal glass filled with a thick blue liquid: shade of the evening, the wine of warlocks. “Take and drink,” urged Pyat Pree.

“ Will it turn my lips blue?”

“ One flute will serve only to unstop your ears and dissolve the caul from off your eyes, so that you may hear and see the truths that will be laid before you.”

Dany raised the glass to her lips. The first sip tasted like ink and spoiled meat, foul, but when she swallowed it seemed to come to life within her. She could feel tendrils spreading through her chest, like fingers of fire coiling around her heart, and on her tongue was a taste like honey and anise and cream, like mother’s milk and Drogo’s seed, like red meat and hot blood and molten gold. It was all the tastes she had ever known, and none of them...

The Warlocks wanted to steal Dany's dragons (it is implied).

In ADWD, Bran drinking the weirwood paste is remarkable similar, and seems to have opposing elements. Instead of black barks and blue leaves, we have white barks and red leaves.

Quote

 She had a weirwood bowl in her hands, carved with a dozen faces, like the ones the heart trees wore. Inside was a white paste, thick and heavy, with dark red veins running through it. “You must eat of this,” said Leaf. She handed Bran a wooden spoon.

The boy looked at the bowl uncertainly. “What is it?”

“A paste of weirwood seeds.”

Something about the look of it made Bran feel ill. The red veins were only weirwood sap, he supposed, but in the torchlight they looked remarkably like blood. He dipped the spoon into the paste, then hesitated. “Will this make me a greenseer?”

“Your blood makes you a greenseer,” said Lord Brynden. “This will help awaken your gifts and wed you to the trees.”

Bran and Dany's reactions, before and after eating the magical substances, ring similar. Initially the drinks taste foul, but later they taste like everything(every good thing in Bran's case) they ever tasted. Dany and Bran had grown up in totally different surroundings, but both of them have tasted honey.

Quote

It had a bitter taste, though not so bitter as acorn paste. The first spoonful was the hardest to get down. He almost retched it right back up. The second tasted better. The third was almost sweet. The rest he spooned up eagerly. Why had he thought that it was bitter? It tasted of honey, of new-fallen snow, of pepper and cinnamon and the last kiss his mother ever gave him.

When Dany drank the Shade of Evening, she felt fire-tendrils coiling around her heart. It was a like a tree of fire was growing inside her. But in Bran's case, the paste was used to wed him to the trees. He became part of the weirwood network. Did Bran drink from the cup of ice? There is this quote - cold preserves, fire consumes. The Shade of Evening appears to have a negative effect on the health of individuals who take it regularly, and Bloodraven is 'preserved' (in a better state than the warlocks, at least).

We have two magical drinks, one taken by a Stark  and another by a Targaryen, both rendering the the drinker the ability to see through past, present and future. Are they the cups of Ice and Fire respectively? I don't know. The 'cups' may not even be actual cups, but something metaphorical.

While on the topic of magical things that causes the consumer to remember their favorite things, there is one more example, this one to do with sense of smell rather than taste.

Quote

“Those who come to drink from the black cup are looking for their angels. If they are afraid, the candles soothe them. When you smell our candles burning, what does it make you think of, my child?”

Winterfell, she might have said. I smell snow and smoke and pine needles. I smell the stables. I smell Hodor laughing, and Jon and Robb battling in the yard, and Sansa singing about some stupid lady fair. I smell the crypts where the stone kings sit, I smell hot bread baking, I smell the godswood. I smell my wolf, I smell her fur, almost as if she were still beside me.

“I don’t smell anything,” she said, to see what he would say.

“You lie,” he said, “but you may keep your secrets if you wish, Arya of House Stark.” He only called her that when she displeased him.

One thing that connects all three places is death.

Edited by Hos the Hostage

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On 6/25/2016 at 3:18 PM, tugela said:

So what exactly does the "drink from the cup of xxxx" actually mean.

I think they are talking about a literal cup of ice or fire, as in a magic drink. Dany drinks shade of the evening to "open her eyes" as Pyat Pree explains to magic. So these cups probably refer to fire magic and ice magic concoctions. Dany is given a similar concoction in GoT by Mirri Maaz Duur. We know MMD was a fire maegi so this probably refers to drinking from the cup of fire. The shade of the evening may mean drinking from the cup of ice, because the Undying most likely services the Great Other or some similar god rather than a fire god. So Dany so far has drink from both the cups of ice and fire. At least, in the future she might end up entangled in an ice magic ritual, like the one MMD did, probably with Euron who seems to have a connection to the Undying's magic. 

Overall, this probably means being affected by both fire and ice magic in some manner. @Hos the Hostage gives a good explanation too. 

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One interpretation that I like follows:

Cup of Fire = Shade of the Evening

Cup of Ice = Weirwood Paste

Dany was asking for information and they seem to be saying this is what she must do in order to learn the truth.  

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13 hours ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

I think they are talking about a literal cup of ice or fire, as in a magic drink. Dany drinks shade of the evening to "open her eyes" as Pyat Pree explains to magic. So these cups probably refer to fire magic and ice magic concoctions. Dany is given a similar concoction in GoT by Mirri Maaz Duur. We know MMD was a fire maegi so this probably refers to drinking from the cup of fire. The shade of the evening may mean drinking from the cup of ice, because the Undying most likely services the Great Other or some similar god rather than a fire god. So Dany so far has drink from both the cups of ice and fire. At least, in the future she might end up entangled in an ice magic ritual, like the one MMD did, probably with Euron who seems to have a connection to the Undying's magic. 

Overall, this probably means being affected by both fire and ice magic in some manner. @Hos the Hostage gives a good explanation too. 

This is good.  Best explanation I've read.

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13 hours ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

I think they are talking about a literal cup of ice or fire, as in a magic drink. Dany drinks shade of the evening to "open her eyes" as Pyat Pree explains to magic. So these cups probably refer to fire magic and ice magic concoctions. Dany is given a similar concoction in GoT by Mirri Maaz Duur. We know MMD was a fire maegi so this probably refers to drinking from the cup of fire. The shade of the evening may mean drinking from the cup of ice, because the Undying most likely services the Great Other or some similar god rather than a fire god. So Dany so far has drink from both the cups of ice and fire. At least, in the future she might end up entangled in an ice magic ritual, like the one MMD did, probably with Euron who seems to have a connection to the Undying's magic. 

Overall, this probably means being affected by both fire and ice magic in some manner. @Hos the Hostage gives a good explanation too. 

 

5 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

One interpretation that I like follows:

Cup of Fire = Shade of the Evening

Cup of Ice = Weirwood Paste

Dany was asking for information and they seem to be saying this is what she must do in order to learn the truth.  

Yes, to drink from the Cup of Knowledge is to learn the mysteries.  

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Posted (edited)
On 6/26/2016 at 1:25 AM, Hos the Hostage said:

At the HotU, Dany drank shade of evening that enabled her too see the visions.

Black and Blue. The effects experienced by Dany upon drinking this are italicized.

The Warlocks wanted to steal Dany's dragons (it is implied).

In ADWD, Bran drinking the weirwood paste is remarkable similar, and seems to have opposing elements. Instead of black barks and blue leaves, we have white barks and red leaves.

Bran and Dany's reactions, before and after eating the magical substances, ring similar. Initially the drinks taste foul, but later they taste like everything(every good thing in Bran's case) they ever tasted. Dany and Bran had grown up in totally different surroundings, but both of them have tasted honey.

When Dany drank the Shade of Evening, she felt fire-tendrils coiling around her heart. It was a like a tree of fire was growing inside her. But in Bran's case, the paste was used to wed him to the trees. He became part of the weirwood network. Did Bran drink from the cup of ice? There is this quote - cold preserves, fire consumes. The Shade of Evening appears to have a negative effect on the health of individuals who take it regularly, and Bloodraven is 'preserved' (in a better state than the warlocks, at least).

We have two magical drinks, one taken by a Stark  and another by a Targaryen, both rendering the the drinker the ability to see through past, present and future. Are they the cups of Ice and Fire respectively? I don't know. The 'cups' may not even be actual cups, but something metaphorical.

While on the topic of magical things that causes the consumer to remember their favorite things, there is one more example, this one to do with sense of smell rather than taste.

One thing that connects all three places is death.

Very nice. I agree with so much of this, escpecially the Dany/Bran comparisons because it seems as though Bran and Jon together will have to unit to fight the common "foe". All of the legendary "heroes" in the story all had companions. None of them fought alone.

One of the things that the blue men tell Daenerys is that some things are not yet made... which means in progress. Dany says (and George confirms) that by the end of ADWD in Daenerys' last chapter, she has chosen the words of her house, "Fire and Blood," which means Dany chooses the cup of fire.

A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys X

No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words.
"Fire and Blood," Daenerys told the swaying grass.

Just like Bran is wed to the trees (ice), Dany is the bride of fire:

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III

Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.
And the next day, strangely, she did not seem to hurt quite so much. It was as if the gods had heard her and taken pity. Even her handmaids noticed the change. "Khaleesi," Jhiqui said, "what is wrong? Are you sick?"
"I was," she answered, standing over the dragon's eggs that Illyrio had given her when she wed. She touched one, the largest of the three, running her hand lightly over the shell. Black-and-scarlet, she thought, like the dragon in my dream. The stone felt strangely warm beneath her fingers … or was she still dreaming? She pulled her hand back nervously.
From that hour onward, each day was easier than the one before it. Her legs grew stronger; her blisters burst and her hands grew callused; her soft thighs toughened, supple as leather.

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IX

"… don't want to wake the dragon …"
She could feel the heat inside her, a terrible burning in her womb. Her son was tall and proud, with Drogo's copper skin and her own silver-gold hair, violet eyes shaped like almonds. And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash. She wept for her child, the promise of a sweet mouth on her breast, but her tears turned to steam as they touched her skin.
"… want to wake the dragon …"

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IX

She should weep, she knew, yet her eyes were dry as ash. She had wept in her dream, and the tears had turned to steam on her cheeks. All the grief has been burned out of me, she told herself. She felt sad, and yet … she could feel Rhaego receding from her, as if he had never been.
Ser Jorah and Mirri Maz Duur entered a few moments later, and found Dany standing over the other dragon's eggs, the two still in their chest. It seemed to her that they felt as hot as the one she had slept with, which was passing strange. "Ser Jorah, come here," she said. She took his hand and placed it on the black egg with the scarlet swirls. "What do you feel?"
"Shell, hard as rock." The knight was wary. "Scales."
"Heat?"
"No. Cold stone." He took his hand away. "Princess, are you well? Should you be up, weak as you are?"

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys X

[Bride of Fire]
She had sensed the truth of it long ago, Dany thought as she took a step closer to the conflagration, but the brazier had not been hot enough. The flames writhed before her like the women who had danced at her wedding, whirling and singing and spinning their yellow and orange and crimson veils, fearsome to behold, yet lovely, so lovely, alive with heat. Dany opened her arms to them, her skin flushed and glowing. This is a wedding, too, she thought. Mirri Maz Duur had fallen silent. The godswife thought her a child, but children grow, and children learn.
 
[and then a few paragraphs later, Dany confirms she is the bride of fire herself, that this was a wedding]
"You are khaleesi," Rakharo said, taking the arakh. "I shall ride at your side to Vaes Dothrak beneath the Mother of Mountains, and keep you safe from harm until you take your place with the crones of the dosh khaleen. No more can I promise."
She nodded, as calmly as if she had not heard his answer, and turned to the last of her champions. "Ser Jorah Mormont," she said, "first and greatest of my knights, I have no bride gift to give you, but I swear to you, one day you shall have from my hands a longsword like none the world has ever seen, dragon-forged and made of Valyrian steel. And I would ask for your oath as well."
"You have it, my queen," Ser Jorah said, kneeling to lay his sword at her feet. "I vow to serve you, to obey you, to die for you if need be."
 
{and next we have the union]

The Princess and the Queen

...Meanwhile, Seasmoke rolled and banked and looped. One instant he would be below his foe, and suddenly he would twist in the sky and come around behind her. Higher and higher the two dragons flew, as hundreds watched from the roofs of Tumbleton. One such said afterward that the flight of Tessarion and Seasmoke seemed more mating dance than battle. Perhaps it was.

A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys IX

Dizzy, Dany closed her eyes. When she opened them again, she glimpsed the Meereenese beneath her through a haze of tears and dust, pouring up the steps and out into the streets.
The lash was still in her hand. She flicked it against Drogon's neck and cried, "Higher!" Her other hand clutched at his scales, her fingers scrabbling for purchase. Drogon's wide black wings beat the air. Dany could feel the heat of him between her thighs. Her heart felt as if it were about to burst. Yes, she thought, yes, now, now, do it, do it, take me, take me, FLY!
Edited by The Fattest Leech
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Let me also present that the Cups are an allusion to the Holy Grail in Arthurian legend.  Dany has lofty goals:  stop slavery and retake her family's territory.  She must drink from these cups to get her holy grail.  The Cups give knowledge.

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Posted (edited)

Also, has anyone read The Glass Flower?

George is using this cup of fire imagery based on how he uses it in that story also with a girl who is very, very much a Daenerys-type... even down the the Lilith connection, life-death-life, silver hair, child-like body, purple eyes, and so much more.

This is how George uses his own themes. Let me find the quotes...

Here is part of it. This is but a small part, but if you read ACOK/Dany 4 and then this, wow...

Spoiler

One by one they ascended unto me; through Wisdom to rebirth, or so they hoped.
High above the swamps, locked within my tower, I prepared for them in the changing chamber, hard by my unimpressive throne. The Artifact is not prepossessing; a rudely shaped bowl of some soft alien alloy, charcoal grey in color and faintly warm to the touch, with six niches spaced evenly around the rim. They are seats; cramped, hard, uncomfortable seats, designed for obviously nonhuman physiognomies, but seats nonetheless. From the floor of the bowl rises a slender column that blossoms into another seat, the awkward cup that enthrones ... choose the title you like best. Painlord, mindlord, lifelord, giver and taker, operator, trigger, master. All of them are me. And others before me, the chain rattling back to The White and perhaps earlier, to the makers, the unknowns who fashioned this machine in the dimness of distant eons.
If the chamber has its drama, that is my doing. The walls and ceiling are curved, and fashioned laboriously of a thousand individual pieces of polished obsidian. Some shards are cut very thin, so the grey light of the Croan'dhic sun can force its way through. Some shards are so thick as to be almost opaque. The room is one color, but a thousand shades, and for those who have the wit to see it, it forms a great mosaic of life and death, dreams and nightmares, pain and ecstasy, excess and emptiness, everything and nothing, blending one into the other, around and around unending, a circle, a cycle, the worm that eats its own tail forever, each piece individual and fragile and razor-edged and each part of a greater picture that is vast and black and brittle.

I stripped and handed my clothing to Rannar, who folded each garment neatly. The cup is topless and egg-shaped I climbed inside and folded my legs beneath me in a lotus, the best possible compromise between the lines of the Artifact and the human physique. The interior walls of the machine began to bleed; glistening red-black fluid beading on the grey metal of the egg, each globule swelling fatter and heavier until it burst. Streams trickled down the smooth, curved walls, and the moisture began to collect at the bottom. My bare skin burned where the fluid touched me. The flow came faster and heavier, the fire creeping up my body, until I was half immersed.
“Send them in,” I told Rannar. How many times have I said those words? I have lost count.
The prizes were led in first. Khar Dorian came with the tattooed boy. “There,” Khar said offhandedly, gesturing to a seat while smiling lasciviously for me, and the hard youth, this killer, this wild bloody tough, shrank away from his escort and took the place assigned to him. Braje, my biomed, brought the woman. They too are of a kind, pallid, overweight, soft. Braje giggled as she fastened the manacles about her complaisant charge. The hatchling fought, its lean muscles writhing, its great wings beating together in a dramatic but ultimately ineffectual thunderclap as huge, glowering Jonas and his men forced it down into its niche. As they manacled it into place, Khar Dorian grinned and the g'vhern made a high, thin whistling sound that hurt the ears.
Craimur Delhune had to be carried in by his aides and hirelings. “There,” I told them, pointing, and they...

And to add, much of this has been heavy on my mind lately, and I find it wonderfully exciting stuff to read about. I cannot wait for TWOW.

 

ADDING MORE: The second half of the flower metaphor that comes after the game of mind is played. This is a very telling passage. Good stuff.

Spoiler

In the game of mind, even more than in life, image and metaphor are everything.
The place beyond time, the endless fog-shrouded plain, the cold sky and the uncertain earth beneath us, even that is illusion. It is mine, all of it, a setting - however unearthly, however surreal - against which the players may act out their tawdry dramas of dominance and submission, conquest and despair, death and rebirth, rape and mind-rape. Without my shaping, my vision and the visions of all the other painlords through the eons, they would have no ground below, no sky above, no place to set their feet, no feet to set. The reality offers not even the scant comfort of the barren landscape I give them. The reality is chaos, unendurable, outside of space and time, bereft of matter or energy, without measurement and therefore frighteningly infinite and suffocatingly claustrophobic, terribly eternal and achingly brief. In that reality the players are trapped; seven minds locked into a telepathic gestalt, into a congress so intimate it cannot be borne by most. And therefore they shrink away, and the very first things we create, in a place where we are gods (or devils, or both), are the bodies we have left behind. Within these walls of flesh we take our refuge and try to order chaos.
The blood has the taste of salt; but there is no blood, only illusion. The cup holds a black and bitter drink; but there is no cup, only an image. The wounds are open and raw, dripping anguish; but there are no wounds, no body to be wounded, only metaphor, symbol, conjuring. Nothing is real, and everything can hurt, can kill, can evoke a lasting madness.
To survive, the players must be resilient, disciplined, stable, and ruthless; they must possess a ready imagination, an extensive vocabulary of symbols, a certain amount of psychological insight. They must find the weakness in their opponent, and hide their own phobias thoroughly. The rules are simple. Believe in everything; believe in nothing. Hold tight to yourself and your sanity.
Even when they kill you, it has no meaning, unless you believe that you have died.
Upon this plain of illusion where these all-too-mutable bodies whirl and feint in a trite pavane that I have seen a thousand times before, plucking swords and mirrors and monsters from the air to throw at one another like jugglers gone mad, the most frightening thing of all is a simple touch.
The symbolism is direct, the meaning clear. Flesh upon flesh. Stripped of metaphor, stripped of protection, stripped of masks. Mind upon mind. When we touch, the walls are down.
Even time is illusory in the game of mind; it runs as fast, or as slow, as we desire.

 

Edited by The Fattest Leech
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Posted (edited)
On 25.06.2016 at 0:48 PM, tugela said:

So what exactly does the "drink from the cup of xxxx" actually mean.

"Sleep came hard, even when Daario came back, so drunk that he could hardly stand. Beneath her coverlets she tossed and turned, dreaming that Hizdahr was kissing her … but his lips were blue and bruised, and when he thrust himself inside her, his manhood was cold as ice."

Who is Dany's dead lover from her dream? -> Jon Snow.

Rhaegar: “He has a song,” the man replied. “He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.”

Thus Jon is both of those cups - half-Stark and half-Targaryen, dead and revived with Melisandre's kiss of fire, amidst salt and smoke.

On 25.06.2016 at 7:11 PM, TheReal_Rebel said:

There is a theory that Quaithe is Dany's mother or  possibly another female related to Dany.

Quaithe is Shiera Seastar, ex-lover of Bloodraven.

On 25.06.2016 at 5:24 PM, Pastaeyes said:

Fire = Aegon

Ice = Jon

She will marry both to unite against the long night.

She will be married three times:

"three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love "

1 - Drogo, 2 - Hizdahr, 3 - Jon.

Some things that the Undying showed to Dany, already happened, even prior she came to their House:

"three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed" - her first husband, and father of her child - Drogo;

"three fires must you light . . . one for life" - Drogo's funeral pyre, that gave life to Dany's dragons;

"three treasons will you know . . . once for blood" - Drogo's Ko kidnapping newborn Rhaego.

This is another clue about identity of Dany's third husband:

"A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire" - blue winter roses are symbol of Lyanna's and Rhaegar's love, same as their child. Thus the blue flower on a wall of ice is Jon, he is the fire/Azor Ahai, and Dany will be his bride.

While fAegon, the mummer's dragon, is one of lies to slay: "Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies "

First lie is that Stannis is Azor Ahai, and third is that Jon is bastard-son of Ned Stark.

So no, if fAegon will ever marry, it won't be with Dany.

On 26.06.2016 at 2:24 AM, tugela said:

There is also the "child of three" reference, implying that she has three parents. Obviously that is not physically possible

Those three are probably Aegon V - Jaehaerys II - Aerys II. When the woods witch/Ghost of High Heart gave the prophecy to Targaryens, those three Kings/future Kings were still alive, so Dany is a descendant of the three of them.

On 26.06.2016 at 8:25 AM, Hos the Hostage said:

At the HotU, Dany drank shade of evening that enabled her too see the visions.

She is able to see prophetic dreams, even without drinking the Shade of evening.

In AGOT she saw Rhaego's future, that he will be red priest and Azor Ahai (one of three) - "Her son was tall and proud, with Drogo’s copper skin and her own silver-gold hair, violet eyes shaped like almonds. And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash."

In ASOS she saw her own future - "That night she dreamt she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper’s rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened."

In ADWD, she dreamed about Jon - "kissing her … but his lips were blue and bruised, and when he thrust himself inside her, his manhood was cold as ice."

Many Targaryens were able to see prophetic dreams. Daenys the Dreamer saw the Doom of Valyria, and Second Long Night, she wrote the whole book of prophecies. Daemon II Blackfyre saw a dream about dragon appearing at Whitewalls, and Duncan the Tall becoming Kingsguard. Maekar's son Daeron saw death of prince Baelor, and that Dunk will be somehow involved in it. Maester Aemon saw return of dragons. Jon saw that he will fight against Undead Army, in armor of black ice, wielding blazing sword Lightbringer. Quaithe/Shiera Seastar seems to be the most gifted prophet, out of all dragonseeds. She foretold to Dany the coming of pale mare, Euron Greyjoy, red priest Moqorro, Tyrion Lannister, Quentyn Martell, fAegon, Jon Connington, and Illyrio.

So, the same as in Bran's case, what makes her a seer is her own blood, and not something that she drunk. That drink just made her vulnerable to the Undying, and they became able to feed on her power. Same as the weirwood is sucking life-force and souls, out of whoever it is connected to. When Bran ate that paste, he fell asleep, and the weirwood roots will grow thru his body, and chain him to the cave's floor. So he will warg into Hodor, rip out those roots from the ground, disconnect himself from the cave, and they will escape thru underground river.

Edited by Megorova

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9 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

One interpretation that I like follows:

Cup of Fire = Shade of the Evening

Cup of Ice = Weirwood Paste

Dany was asking for information and they seem to be saying this is what she must do in order to learn the truth.  

We can count on Dany eating the same paste from the children of the forest.  It's a mind trip drug but it also opens the mind's eye.  

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On 6/25/2016 at 5:48 AM, tugela said:

I have been thinking about Daenerys's experiences in the house of the undying, and in particular, this part:

Quote

 

“I have come for the gift of truth,” Dany said. “In the long hall, the things I saw... were they true visions, or lies? Past things, or things to come? What did they mean?”
...the shape of shadows... morrows not yet made... drink from the cup of ice... drink from the
cup of fire...
...mother of dragons... child of three...
“Three?” She did not understand.
...three heads has the dragon... the ghost chorus yarnmered inside her skull with never a lip
moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air....

 

So what exactly does the "drink from the cup of xxxx" actually mean.

I was re-reading GoT Catelyn II, and came across this passage: 

Quote

 

     That brought a bitter twist to Ned's mouth. "Brandon. Yes. Brandon would known what to do. He always did. It was all meant for Brandon. You, Winterfell, everything. He was born to be a King's Hand and a father to queens. I never asked for this cup to pass to me."

      "Perhaps not," Catelyn said, "but Brandon is dead, and the cup has passed, and you must drink from it, like it or not"

Who knows?  GRRM never gives us enough to figure anything out unequivocally.  What I can say, however, is that being induced to drink from that 'cup' is likely to be a 'bittersweet' experience...

 

 

Bitter Sweet Symphony

The Verve

Cause it's a bittersweet symphony this life
Trying to make ends meet, you're a slave to the money then you die.
I'll take you down the only road I've ever been down
You know the one that takes you to the places where all the veins meet, yeah.
No change, I can't change, I can't change, I can't change,
but I'm here in my mold, I am here in my mold.
But I'm a million different people from one day to the next
I can't change my mold, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

Well I never pray,
But tonight I'm on my knees, yeah.
I need to hear some sounds that recognize the pain in me, yeah.
I let the melody shine, let it cleanse my mind, I feel free now.
But the airwaves are clean and there's nobody singing to me now.

No change, I can't change, I can't change, I can't change,
But I'm here in my mold, I am here in my mold.
And I'm a million different people from one day to the next
I can't change my mold, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

Cause it's a bittersweet symphony this life.
Trying to make ends meet, trying to find some money then you die.
I'll take you down the only road I've ever been down
You know the one that takes you to the places where all the veins meet, yeah.
No change, I can't change, I can't change, I can't change,
but I'm here in my mold, I am here in my mold.
But I'm a million different people from one day to the next
I can't change my mold, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
I can't change my mold, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
I can't change my mold, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

It justs sex and violence melody and silence
It justs sex and violence melody and silence (I'll take you down the only road I've ever been down)
It's just sex and violence melody and silence
It's just sex and violence melody and silence
It's just sex and violence melody and silence (I'll take you down the only road I've ever been down)
(It's just sex and violence melody and silence)Been down
(Ever been down)
(Ever been down)
(Ever been down)
(Ever been down)
(Ever been down)

Songwriters: Keith Richards / Mick Jagger / RIchard Ashcroft

 

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