[Spoilers] Criticize Without Repercussion - one last time ;o)

[rayarts]

3 minutes ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

I am from Poland too, but it's not very important in this topic.

Game of Thrones have became blockbuster like transformers, but people don't want to admit that currently, this show is only entertainment for eyes and torture for brain. Special effects are good (when they use it), but writing is pure atrocity. I consider it horrific that normies think that arya's revenge on walder or sansa killing ramsay was badass and cool. It shows that in fact, they lack empathy and think that you all have right to torture and murder someone as long as he have killed someone you loved.

Dumb, Dumber and Cogman maybe don't smell their farts and call them awesome, but certainly they have people for this job.

I agree with everything. 

[Primalsplit]

On 30.06.2016 at 4:05 PM, rayarts said:

Maybe I am most frustrated about so many people JUST ENJOYING THIS CRAP and giving those who see the mistakes a hard time. Good for you, if you do not need logical writing and stuff actually happening onscreen (I drop my favourite Game Offscreen Thrones once again), but pleeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaase leave us, who actually look for some logic in all this mess, be. 

And guys, have you seen the reaction videos on youtube? E.g. at Burlington Bar? I was sickened  people cheering when hundreds go up in the explosion (most innocent), because what? Didn't Carol bring the Faith Militant onto herself??? And they ffs cheered, when Tommen jumped? WHUT??? Because a naive, poor boy jumping from a window after his whole world is destroyed is so freaking entertaining??? Or because you hate the Lannisters? Wait, didn't you just cheer FOR Cersei? And then when the Septa was tortured, they cheered again!! WTF?! This was a sickening scene (costing us precious screnetime, no less) - again, remember, how Cersei brought that upon herself??? And now what??? In the reactions of folks I can actually see, how humans can be so stupid as to follow ridiculous and evil leaders in real life... THEY TOTALLY LOST THEIR MARBLES. 

It's simple, because humans are animals who pretend to have morals. Most just act like they have morals because this is socially acceptable. Very few people actually think much about morality, good and evil, lesser evil and similar concepts. A considerable percentage of people think they're good, while they have a self-centered morality. This extends to protagonist-centered morality when engaging in fiction.

When you convince people that someone is enemy, whether justified or not; they will treat them like enemy. Slaughter them like butchers slaughter animals for their meat. For most people nowadays, zealotry is an enemy. It makes sense they cheer when a religious institution gets blown up, along with clergy and the inferior people who believe in them. It makes sense when a septa is tortured, who was torturing Cersei with their bigotry previously. And the audience loved Cersei's remark that septa was just torturing her just because she enjoyed it, not because it was her duty. While this was probably the truth, this fact is like sweet wine to such an audience. They would swallow it. Do you remember the arbor gold remark in the books? This one is similar.

As for Tommen, yeah people would definitely cheer at that. Humans just detest the weak. It does not matter that boy was 13 or lower. Just ask a bullied kid in school. Humans were using much younger people as emotional punching bags when they were younger themselves, when they were 7 or 8 years old. I had recieved my share of bullying, and once I was honest with myself I realised that I had committed my fair share of it. It's not even something you realise that it is something that is in you (as well as everyone) until you go through careful observation and deep analysis. I can perfectly understand how masses follow someone who "chooses violence".

This is my observation as someone who has dabbled in psychology

[Paxter Redwyne]

35 minutes ago, Primalsplit said:

It's simple, because humans are animals who pretend to have morals. Most just act like they have morals because this is socially acceptable. Very few people actually think much about morality, good and evil, lesser evil and similar concepts. A considerable percentage of people think they're good, while they have a self-centered morality. This extends to protagonist-centered morality when engaging in fiction.

When you convince people that someone is enemy, whether justified or not; they will treat them like enemy. Slaughter them like butchers slaughter animals for their meat. For most people nowadays, zealotry is an enemy. It makes sense they cheer when a religious institution gets blown up, along with clergy and the inferior people who believe in them. It makes sense when a septa is tortured, who was torturing Cersei with their bigotry previously. And the audience loved Cersei's remark that septa was just torturing her just because she enjoyed it, not because it was her duty. While this was probably the truth, this fact is like sweet wine to such an audience. They would swallow it. Do you remember the arbor gold remark in the books? This one is similar.

As for Tommen, yeah people would definitely cheer at that. Humans just detest the weak. It does not matter that boy was 13 or lower. Just ask a bullied kid in school. Humans were using much younger people as emotional punching bags when they were younger themselves, when they were 7 or 8 years old. I had recieved my share of bullying, and once I was honest with myself I realised that I had committed my fair share of it. It's not even something you realise that it is something that is in you (as well as everyone) until you go through careful observation and deep analysis. I can perfectly understand how masses follow someone who "chooses violence".

This is my observation as someone who has dabbled in psychology

Your analysis is quite accurate. I just wanted to add that most people have problems to feel empathy and therefore they don't try to look from other person perspective. Therefore people dislike those who are different than them or have different opinions, what have case in average watchers hating us, poor book readers for pointing out all flaws, because they don't want to accept someone's else opinion. 

[rayarts]

13 hours ago, Primalsplit said:

It's simple, because humans are animals who pretend to have morals. Most just act like they have morals because this is socially acceptable. Very few people actually think much about morality, good and evil, lesser evil and similar concepts. A considerable percentage of people think they're good, while they have a self-centered morality. This extends to protagonist-centered morality when engaging in fiction.

When you convince people that someone is enemy, whether justified or not; they will treat them like enemy. Slaughter them like butchers slaughter animals for their meat. For most people nowadays, zealotry is an enemy. It makes sense they cheer when a religious institution gets blown up, along with clergy and the inferior people who believe in them. It makes sense when a septa is tortured, who was torturing Cersei with their bigotry previously. And the audience loved Cersei's remark that septa was just torturing her just because she enjoyed it, not because it was her duty. While this was probably the truth, this fact is like sweet wine to such an audience. They would swallow it. Do you remember the arbor gold remark in the books? This one is similar.

As for Tommen, yeah people would definitely cheer at that. Humans just detest the weak. It does not matter that boy was 13 or lower. Just ask a bullied kid in school. Humans were using much younger people as emotional punching bags when they were younger themselves, when they were 7 or 8 years old. I had recieved my share of bullying, and once I was honest with myself I realised that I had committed my fair share of it. It's not even something you realise that it is something that is in you (as well as everyone) until you go through careful observation and deep analysis. I can perfectly understand how masses follow someone who "chooses violence".

This is my observation as someone who has dabbled in psychology

This is nothing new, I have observed the same and experienced unfortunately the same, even the bullying.

But let's go back to the show - at this point the show brought up the worst in the audience - cheering for stuff you shouldn't cheer for if your moral compass was intact and/or you get all the plot(holes). 

And: Have you seen the reactions to Preston Jacobs newest video "GoT S6 E10 Serious Q&A"? He received so much hate in the comment section, just because he critisized the last episode. It's ridiculous.

Guys, it seems that GoT has split it's audience in those who worship it, just in a good Faith Milititant manner, and sceptics on the other side.

It will never be the same... T__T  Now GoT fans hate each other. 

[teemo]

I had a few people on my FB feed write stuff like, "THANK GOD TOMMEN IS DEAD!!!!" lol.  I admittedly haven't watched much of this season, but has he turned into a monster or something?  

[Darkstream]

4 minutes ago, teemo said:

I had a few people on my FB feed write stuff like, "THANK GOD TOMMEN IS DEAD!!!!" lol.  I admittedly haven't watched much of this season, but has he turned into a monster or something?  

Not unless you consider a meek and tractable young boy who does nothing but pout and sulk a monster. His one undertaking was, under the sway of the High Sparrow, to abolish the custom of trial by combat, forcing Cercei to be tried by the Seven in a hearing. Apparently to some people, with obviously questionable morals, this is ground to justify wanting to see a young child commit suicide. 

[Deatheye]

I don't understand how people can say that this was the best season ever. Sure, it was better than season 5, but it just seemed off.. character-wise especially.

Littlefinger was made into a moron.

The Hound is a full meme now, kills 4 innocent BwB members and no one even cares.

Euron's kingsmoot dialogue was butchered (I still hope that they'll do something interesting with him in s07).

Arya storyline would be dumbest thing that ever appeared in GoT, if Dorne didn't exist.

Varys was completely white-washed, no aDwD epilogue, little birds still have their tongues, no Aegon and JonCon and the worst thing, Dany somehow doesn't care that he spied on her and that he send an assasin to kill her and her child, even though she was pretty angry with him in s03.

Jon can apparently die and rise again, but he can't develop his own personality.

Sansa basically doesn't even care that Rickon died, heck no one cares that Rickon died.

Dorne was... well, we all know what Dorne was.

Overall, this season had some pretty nice moments cinematic-wise (Battle for Winterfell in e09 especially) but the writing that allowed them to happen was horrendous and made little sense. On the plus side, I think that s06 (aside from Bran's story) didn't spoil tWoW that much. I'm kind of glad that there are only 13 episodes left and that D&D won't milk the show into oblivion.

 

[Ruhail]

21 minutes ago, Deatheye said:

I don't understand how people can say that this was the best season ever. Sure, it was better than season 5, but it just seemed off.. character-wise especially.

Littlefinger was made into a moron.

The Hound is a full meme now, kills 4 innocent BwB members and no one even cares.

Euron's kingsmoot dialogue was butchered (I still hope that they'll do something interesting with him in s07).

Arya storyline would be dumbest thing that ever appeared in GoT, if Dorne didn't exist.

Varys was completely white-washed, no aDwD epilogue, little birds still have their tongues, no Aegon and JonCon and the worst thing, Dany somehow doesn't care that he spied on her and that he send an assasin to kill her and her child, even though she was pretty angry with him in s03.

Jon can apparently die and rise again, but he can't develop his own personality.

Sansa basically doesn't even care that Rickon died, heck no one cares that Rickon died.

Dorne was... well, we all know what Dorne was.

Overall, this season had some pretty nice moments cinematic-wise (Battle for Winterfell in e09 especially) but the writing that allowed them to happen was horrendous and made little sense. On the plus side, I think that s06 (aside from Bran's story) didn't spoil tWoW that much. I'm kind of glad that there are only 13 episodes left and that D&D won't milk the show into oblivion.

 

Which stories/characters do you like/look most forward to?

[Tywinelle]

Most of the points I hated about this ep have been mentioned by others.

Here are a few that I want to add.

1/ HS asks Loras if he will fight for the faith and has the 7 pointed star cut into his forehead meaning he's a member of the Faith Militant BUT when Marge confronts the HS, he says "once the queen mother's trial is concluded brother Loras is free to leave."  Hang on a minute.  If he's now part of your goon squad how can he be "free to leave"?

2/ Mace tries to stop Loras getting mutilated, Marge stops him but then she complains to the HS "you mutilated him".  Did she forget about "faith being the only way" in the space of a few minutes and if she had a problem with it why did she wait to say something after it was already done?

3/ Pycelle not being at the Sept.  Major event in the city and he's shagging a whore?

4/ Again, major event in the city and the streets outside the Sept are deserted.  A queen they hate is supposed to go on trial and they aren't hanging outside waiting to hear the verdict and/or see her punished?

And that's just the opening of the ep.  As Lady Crane said "the writing is no good".

[Deatheye]

1 hour ago, Ruhail said:

Which stories/characters do you like/look most forward to?

In the show? Well, as I said, I hope that they'll do something interesting with Euron - it'll just be sad if he gets Doran'd. Another character I'm curious about is Randyll Tarly, he's bound to chase Sam and Heartsbane to Oldtown. If the show is going to do what the books are doing, then Euron should attack/raid/capture Oldtown, so that means they could meet. I don't know what could happen then, maybe they'll fight against one another or maybe they'll become allies - there are some book theories that Randyll is one of JonCon's friends in the Reach so Euron/Randyll alliance could be show version of this. Why do I think this could happen? Well, we have seen in s06 that Randyll hates wildlings and Dany's dothraki are basically wildlings on steroids. I think that what he said about wildlings was to foreshadow how he'll feel about the dothraki, but eh, maybe I give D&D too much credit. Anyway, Euron has to attack Dany because she has allied with Yara and Randyll could be one of his allies, but it's all probably just my bullshit theory (though I wouldn't mind seeing it come true).

I'm also curious about Littlefinger, Jaime and Qyburn - LF could mess the things up there in the north, Jaime should be more similar to his book self now that he sees that Cersei is insane and I want to know if Qyburn has some hidden intentions. Oh, and BwB going north, I wonder if they'll actually get there or if they meet Wolverine on the road (who has both Beric and Thoros on her little list) and she kills them. I hope that the former is true, because Beric Dondarrion is one of my favourite minor characters. White walker story will probably have a lot of expensive CGI, but since it seems they're just pure evil in the show, I'm not really interested in their story, I just hope their scenes will look good.

As for tWoW: I'm looking forward to basically everything, but mainly I want to know what Stannis's story and fate is going to be (if he dies in the Battle for Winterfell, or if he survives and dies after the Wall falls or in a battle against Dany) and how much will JonCon and Aegon conquer down in the south.

[Le Cygne]

7 hours ago, Darkstream said:

Not unless you consider a meek and tractable young boy who does nothing but pout and sulk a monster. His one undertaking was, under the sway of the High Sparrow, to abolish the custom of trial by combat, forcing Cercei to be tried by the Seven in a hearing. Apparently to some people, with obviously questionable morals, this is ground to justify wanting to see a young child commit suicide. 

Also Cersei killed the one he knew as his father, Robert. He was all alone.

[Ruhail]

2 hours ago, Deatheye said:

In the show? Well, as I said, I hope that they'll do something interesting with Euron - it'll just be sad if he gets Doran'd. Another character I'm curious about is Randyll Tarly, he's bound to chase Sam and Heartsbane to Oldtown. If the show is going to do what the books are doing, then Euron should attack/raid/capture Oldtown, so that means they could meet. I don't know what could happen then, maybe they'll fight against one another or maybe they'll become allies - there are some book theories that Randyll is one of JonCon's friends in the Reach so Euron/Randyll alliance could be show version of this. Why do I think this could happen? Well, we have seen in s06 that Randyll hates wildlings and Dany's dothraki are basically wildlings on steroids. I think that what he said about wildlings was to foreshadow how he'll feel about the dothraki, but eh, maybe I give D&D too much credit. Anyway, Euron has to attack Dany because she has allied with Yara and Randyll could be one of his allies, but it's all probably just my bullshit theory (though I wouldn't mind seeing it come true).

I'm also curious about Littlefinger, Jaime and Qyburn - LF could mess the things up there in the north, Jaime should be more similar to his book self now that he sees that Cersei is insane and I want to know if Qyburn has some hidden intentions. Oh, and BwB going north, I wonder if they'll actually get there or if they meet Wolverine on the road (who has both Beric and Thoros on her little list) and she kills them. I hope that the former is true, because Beric Dondarrion is one of my favourite minor characters. White walker story will probably have a lot of expensive CGI, but since it seems they're just pure evil in the show, I'm not really interested in their story, I just hope their scenes will look good.

As for tWoW: I'm looking forward to basically everything, but mainly I want to know what Stannis's story and fate is going to be (if he dies in the Battle for Winterfell, or if he survives and dies after the Wall falls or in a battle against Dany) and how much will JonCon and Aegon conquer down in the south.

That last paragraph is basically me aswell.

[WSmith84]

2 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Also Cersei killed the one he knew as his father, Robert. He was all alone.

Jaime should have told him he was his father first. Then Tommen could jump out of the window screaming 'I'm so happy I'm an abomination born of incest and all of my enemies were totally rigggghhhhhhttttttt!!!!' when Jaime wasn't looking. Then Larry would be three for three.

I did cheer/laugh when Tommen died. For one, he reminded me so much of Renholm that I couldn't help it, but I also hated the character. Not like I hated Joffrey, but like I hated Ramsey. I thought that they were both crap characters and I didn't enjoy watching them on-screen. I just can't connect to the show characters anymore. Well, actually, I did feel a bit bad when Margaery died. Well done Natalie Dormer, you gave that character a lot, often with very little to work with. Diana Rigg too.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

On 7/1/2016 at 11:55 AM, Primalsplit said:

It's simple, because humans are animals who pretend to have morals. Most just act like they have morals because this is socially acceptable. Very few people actually think much about morality, good and evil, lesser evil and similar concepts. A considerable percentage of people think they're good, while they have a self-centered morality. This extends to protagonist-centered morality when engaging in fiction.

When you convince people that someone is enemy, whether justified or not; they will treat them like enemy. Slaughter them like butchers slaughter animals for their meat. For most people nowadays, zealotry is an enemy. It makes sense they cheer when a religious institution gets blown up, along with clergy and the inferior people who believe in them. It makes sense when a septa is tortured, who was torturing Cersei with their bigotry previously. And the audience loved Cersei's remark that septa was just torturing her just because she enjoyed it, not because it was her duty. While this was probably the truth, this fact is like sweet wine to such an audience. They would swallow it. Do you remember the arbor gold remark in the books? This one is similar.

As for Tommen, yeah people would definitely cheer at that. Humans just detest the weak. It does not matter that boy was 13 or lower. Just ask a bullied kid in school. Humans were using much younger people as emotional punching bags when they were younger themselves, when they were 7 or 8 years old. I had recieved my share of bullying, and once I was honest with myself I realised that I had committed my fair share of it. It's not even something you realise that it is something that is in you (as well as everyone) until you go through careful observation and deep analysis. I can perfectly understand how masses follow someone who "chooses violence".

This is my observation as someone who has dabbled in psychology

 

It's an interesting idea--whenever we see all these anti-bullying PSA's to "end bullying"--the reason it will never happen is because so many truly despise the weak.

I've heard similar sentiments on podcasts that reference this episode--Joe Rogan's podcast for example. I don't know why I still listen to him except he gets interesting guests from time to time. But he brought up Tommen specifically the other day and called him a "weak bitch" or something close to that. I think it was right before episode 10. I'm sure he loved the outcome.

[Kyoshi]

After finishing the finale, my friend ran to my room to confirm that Jon truly is Robert's son.   I freaking hate this show.

[Le Cygne]

2 hours ago, WSmith84 said:

Jaime should have told him he was his father first. Then Tommen could jump out of the window screaming 'I'm so happy I'm an abomination born of incest and all of my enemies were totally rigggghhhhhhttttttt!!!!' when Jaime wasn't looking. Then Larry would be three for three.

Ha, that would have fit right in. Matching happy to be an incest baby scenes, and Jaime is 0 for 3.

2 hours ago, WSmith84 said:

I did cheer/laugh when Tommen died. For one, he reminded me so much of Renholm that I couldn't help it, but I also hated the character. Not like I hated Joffrey, but like I hated Ramsey. I thought that they were both crap characters and I didn't enjoy watching them on-screen. I just can't connect to the show characters anymore. Well, actually, I did feel a bit bad when Margaery died. Well done Natalie Dormer, you gave that character a lot, often with very little to work with. Diana Rigg too.

I don't take any of it seriously, but at the same time, I was sad because I like book Tommen. My first thought was for Ser Pounce, because I was never able to connect to show Tommen, or most of the other characters, like you said.

[Maid So Fair]

12 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

After finishing the finale, my friend ran to my room to confirm that Jon truly is Robert's son.   I freaking hate this show.

Well, the black hair does not help. I'm completely mystified why, after being so anvilicious with everything else, they haven't even bothered to mention Rhaegar. They haven't really made much of the KG being present either.

[WSmith84]

5 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Ha, that would have fit right in. Matching happy to be an incest baby scenes, and Jaime is 0 for 3.

I don't take any of it seriously, but at the same time, I was sad because I like book Tommen. My first thought was for Ser Pounce, because I was never able to connect to show Tommen, or most of the other characters, like you said.

I like book Tommen too. He's protective of Margaery, likes cats and is a proponent of anti-beet policies. What's not to like?

[LulaMae Barnes]

11 hours ago, teemo said:

I had a few people on my FB feed write stuff like, "THANK GOD TOMMEN IS DEAD!!!!" lol.  I admittedly haven't watched much of this season, but has he turned into a monster or something?  

Nope. Still just a very naive teenager totally in love with his older, hot wife - and very sad to see his mother killher and a lot of other innocent people...

But by now the show makes me somehow believe he killed himself because he knew about the prophecy of Maggy the (not so old and ugly) Frog - he probably eavesdropped on his loving mom & his funcle when they had this weird homecoming-reloaded-chat:"no, I knew this would happen, the witch told me years ago, she promised me three children, she promised me they'd die...and gold their shrouds...everything she said came true.You couldn't have stopped it. It's prophecy, it's fate.."

Knowing his siblings had already died and his mom didn't seem to care all that much about his sister's murder - because it was prophesied and all - he just took the opportunity to end his life as well - it seemed like a good point - so his mom didn't have to wait any longer...

[teemo]

Just woke up from a nightmare and I'm not kidding....for some reason I was being forced to watch seasons 2-6 of GoT back-to-back with a bunch of Unsullied who hated the books and me even more.  It was actually kind of terrifying, lol.