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[Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussions - First We Take King's Landing Edition

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3 minutes ago, Karmarni said:

^^ This, well said. Very well said. It all is a bunch of hogwash at this point. Their lazy writing and loose ends are absolutely horrific. They just don't care, imo. They'll move forward, no matter the inconsistencies.

I utterly and completely hated the long, paused held moments by some of the actors, like someone said, "Wait, hold it right there. Count, one, two, three, four, five" bang, whether something happens (High Sparrow) or not (Arya).

And the music for KL was terrible. Cheesy horror movie, what could be up, viewer? Anything bad? No, never. Nothing bad, relax. Right.

That was the only part I managed to watch before falling asleep and I thought it was very boring and predictable. Agree on the music too.

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11 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

Well, first I think it would diminish the dramatic impact of converging all the storylines too quickly. Second, the Riverlands are in absolute chaos with roaming bands of Lannisters and sellswords. The Twins will be a legitimate issue in regard to the up and downward movement of armies [until the Trident freezes] and by scripting it so the Riverlands are more or less the BwB, Sandor and Arya's issue to deal with gives them some oomf when either the Northern or Southern branch of the narrative finally gets there. 

I agree. There will be action there and it's probably a good spot for a clash of armies. The episode definitely made the holder of the Twins something of a contention point too.

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Quote

What could this Something Fucked be???? I’m kidding; this show is as subtle and nuanced as neon green, building-obliterating explosives shoved beneath a city and referred to three times per episode.

...

For some reason, the Little Birds descend on Pycelle, Children of the Corn–style, and stab him to death. An interesting and old-fashioned choice to make when you’ve got cases upon cases of radioactive explosives, but OK! I’m not here to judge.

...

Cersei is as upset about having three dead children as I am when I realize the crab wontons are missing from my Seamless order.

...

Gilly and Sam and Aryan Sam (who has aged at least a year, don’t worry; time is a construct)

...

He confronts Melisandre and asks her to confess to her unspeakable crime. She’s like, “My bad! I had bad intel.” Melisandre is George Bush. Jon kicks her out of Winterfell and tells her never to return. I see how it is. Jon and Davos want Melisandre to convene and bargain with malevolent demon gods when it’s CONVENIENT for them, but not when it offends their delicate non-child-burning sensibilities.

...

So Lady Olenna is in Dorne. She has already heard about the deaths of Margaery and Loras — I don’t even want to know how Game of Thrones would explain the logistics of this — and is plotting revenge with Ellaria Sand. Ellaria reveals the ace up her sleeve: Varys, who has somehow made it to Dorne even though it took Sam multiple episodes to get to his library and Bran is still in the middle of the forest.

...

Speaking of vast leaps in logic and time and space, Daenerys’s ONE THOUSAND SHIPS are almost ready. That’s right. One thousand ships, all of which have been built in the span of two episodes. The structural integrity of these ships is worrisome to me, but I am not a magical ship-builder, so.

...

Now Tyrion is looking at her like he loves her. Now we have to deal with an unrequited Tyrion/Dany non-fuck plot.

...

Uncle Benjen is dropping off Bran and Meera at another tree and leaving them there to do god knows fucking what, they’re not his problem.

...

Ned neither asks why Lyanna is bleeding to death nor makes any immediate moves to stop said bleeding, other than bark at a random woman to bring her water. Ned is more interested in flirting with his dying sister than saving her.

...

Cersei — who, judging by the age of Aryan Sam and the thousands of ships and the fact that Olenna is already in Dorne and it’s winter now for real, should really have longer hair by now — is queen.

...

Varys is somehow back on one of the ships, which, what the actual fuck? Clearly Varys has access to some kind of sound-barrier-smashing motor scooter.

Rachel Handlerr, MTV.

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13 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

Well, first I think it would diminish the dramatic impact of converging all the storylines too quickly. Second, the Riverlands are in absolute chaos with roaming bands of Lannisters and sellswords. The Twins will be a legitimate issue in regard to the up and downward movement of armies [until the Trident freezes] and by scripting it so the Riverlands are more or less the BwB, Sandor and Arya's issue to deal with gives them some oomf when either the Northern or Southern branch of the narrative finally gets there. 

But that doesn't make sense for Arya to not go home knowing Jon and her sister are there? She doesn't need anyone to escort her there as well. So why would she choose to hang around with BoW (people she doesn't get along with) and not return home? 

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10 minutes ago, CrastorsLivingSon said:

From io9 review: Bold is mine.

Here’s what I think is most astonishing about “The Winds of Winter”—the fact that so much happened, that so many characters died, that so many stories got resolved, that everyone and everything pivoted to look forward to the series’ final act—and yet it never felt rushed or unsatisfying.

What the actual eff.  Not reading the rest.  Feel free if ya like.  http://io9.gizmodo.com/winter-has-finally-come-on-game-of-thrones-and-now-the-1782654557

 

Well, it's io9. That explains everything. They are one step below EW when it comes to being a lap dog.

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1 hour ago, DutchArya said:

But that doesn't make sense for Arya to not go home knowing Jon and her sister are there? She doesn't need anyone to escort her there as well. So why would she choose to hang around with BoW (people she doesn't get along with) and not return home? 

It makes sense to me. Sandor was telegraphed widely as someone she no longer hated. Thoros is on her hit list. Melisandre, also on her list, is headed that way, and Brienne is somewhere thereabouts, I'd wager. So I think Arya gets to tick off two more names. All that's left for the show is Cersei and the Mountain then.

I don't think Arya goes south to KL though. I think she and Sandor will go North. Beric needs to die, Thoros, and Mel are on the hit list. So, there goes the BwB, at least the named characters. No sign of Anguy.

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5 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

But that doesn't make sense for Arya to not go home knowing Jon and her sister are there? She doesn't need anyone to escort her there as well. So why would she choose to hang around with BoW (people she doesn't get along with) and not return home? 

Of course it doesn't make sense-- but the showrunners have to work with what they got. It would have made sense for Arya to suss out the northern situation and head there first to reunite with Jon and Sansa. But what the showrunners have done is make her return to Westeros focus first on her revenge arc. So she's currently in the Riverlands, as are Sandor and the BwB. In my opinion, one ought to make that significant and play on the inverted Sandor/Arya relationship while doing so. 

It makes sense at this point, is what I mean. 

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1 minute ago, JEORDHl said:

Of course it doesn't make sense-- but the showrunners have to work with what they got. It would have made sense for Arya to suss out the northern situation and head there first to reunite with Jon and Sansa. But what the showrunners have done is make her return to Westeros focus first on her revenge arc. So she's currently in the Riverlands, as are Sandor and the BwB. In my opinion, one ought to make that significant and play on the inverted Sandor/Arya relationship while doing so. 

It makes sense at this point, is what I mean. 

Whatever makes creative sense because they want it to happen.

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2 minutes ago, Karmarni said:

It makes sense to me. Sandor was telegraphed widely as someone she no longer hated. Thoros is on her hit list. Melisandre, also on her list, is headed that way, and Brienne is somewhere thereabouts, I'd wager. So I think Arya gets to tick off two more names. All that's left for the show is Cersei and the Mountain then.

I agree they will likely run into eachother. I don't think they'll focus her story on the Riverlands though. Beric/Thoros are heading North with the Hound. So is Arya. They most likely will run into Mel on the way up. This could be the perfect time to have Jon's resurrection known to Arya and with Beric there for good measure. Hopefully Arya also reunites with her Direwolf as well. Mel will either die or continue South to Dany. 

Tyrion or Jamie will take care of Cersei. A Dragon or something will kill the Mountain. All crossed off  her list. 

At some point Jon will have to move South to gather forces and meet Dany...etc. 

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53 minutes ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

Oh and Brienne hasn't made it back to Winterfell yet, proving her mission to recruit the Tully army was pointless in the first place (well if time & space were in any way coherent on the show that is).

Her teleportation device is obviously malfunctioning, she should give LF or Varys a call.

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10 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

Of course it doesn't make sense-- but the showrunners have to work with what they got. It would have made sense for Arya to suss out the northern situation and head there first to reunite with Jon and Sansa. But what the showrunners have done is make her return to Westeros focus first on her revenge arc. So she's currently in the Riverlands, as are Sandor and the BwB. In my opinion, one ought to make that significant and play on the inverted Sandor/Arya relationship while doing so. 

It makes sense at this point, is what I mean. 

I totally get what you mean. What makes sense doesn't automatically mean D&D will see the logic. :) We shall see. 

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1 hour ago, imaginepageant said:

It seemed obvious enough to me. I guess I don't need a montage to figure out that getting from point A to point B takes time. It's pretty simple logic.

Let's say Varys wasn't there in that closing scene. The Martell and Tyrell ships still were, and needed to be, or else there wouldn't have been enough ships for Dany to set out for Westeros in the first place. That alone implies that time has passed between Varys making the alliance with the Martells and Tyrells in Dorne and the Martell and Tyrell ships getting to Meereen. Or would everyone then be upset that the ships themselves magically teleported to Meereen? It's a fairly obvious chain of events: Varys gets to Dorne, the alliance is forged, the Martell and Tyrell ships sail back to Meereen, Dany's now-complete fleet sets out for Westeros. And again, it's pretty simple logic that this would have taken time.

You can't say there are no consequences in other areas of the world before those consequences have had a chance to happen. If, at the start of next season, the King's Landing storyline picks up exactly where it left off and it seems that little to no time has passed there before Dany's fleet arrives, then yes, that will be a problem. But chances are a good chunk of time will have passed unseen in King's Landing between season six and seven—just as it did between season three and four (established by Jaime commenting that he's been back for a few weeks in the first episode of season four). We also skip over a good chunk of time between season four and five (established by Tyrion's state upon arriving in Pentos, not to mention his full beard).

Also, we aren't necessarily on the same timeline all over the world. An event in King's Landing in episode four isn't necessarily happening at the exact same time as an event at the Wall in episode four; there might be days or even weeks between the two storylines. For example, Cersei's hair grew out some between season five and six, implying that a few weeks passed there, but no time at all passed at the Wall. That doesn't present a problem as long as the storylines and characters between the two locations aren't interacting with each other, or there isn't any explicit mention of time that would create an inconsistency. In the meantime, we can assume that the events that followed in King's Landing happened more quickly than those at the Wall, allowing for the Wall to "catch up" with them, so to speak.

I'm guessing the White Walkers are biding their time until Bran gets south of the Wall, when they will be able to use whatever silly magic now connects them. As for Little Sam, yeah, they really screwed up time with him. No excuses there.

Sure, getting from point A to point B takes time. The show could have a scene of Tyrion peeing off of the Wall and then in the next shot, he's sipping wine in the Red Keep. Viewers could probably conclude that he traveled by some undetermined manner over an unknown period of time to end up in KL. But it's still jarring, confusing and terrible storytelling.

Regarding the closing scene, I know that Martell and Tyrell ships were there because the showrunners had to tell me because the characters didn't. Just horrid.

As for consequences, I laughed out loud when the HS said that Cersei would show for the trial because she knew the consequences of not showing. Yet last week, we saw her refuse his summons and set a zombie upon his followers. Consequences, heh.

The fact that you acknowledge that,"we aren't necessarily on the same timeline all over the world," is more damning than anything I can say. Not only is time passing at different rates in different locations but neither of us has any idea what the given time is in any given location. That is a problem and it's a huge one, because of causality, especially in the world where the flow of knowledge is somewhere between miraculous (e.g. Olenna knowing what happened in KL) to non-existent (e.g. the Citadel not knowing about LC Mormont's death). Maybe in Sam's timeline, Mormont only died a few days ago and he still has to return to Castle Black to advocate for Jon being named LC. Who knows?

In any event, this is a rant thread rather than debate one, if you want to discuss it further, you should make a new topic about the importance of teleportation in good storytelling.

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I think the time jumps could have worked if they'd sequenced them differently.

Jumping from Jaime et al being with the Freys - to the Queen of Thorns in Dorne [in black and cognizant of what happened in KL] - then back to Jaime et Bronn arriving on the outskirts of KL to observe a demolished Great Sept... it was bad scripting and/or editing that undermined any [possibly] logical passage of time.

Even Varys from Dorne to Dany's fleet could've been handled better by establishing him actually leaving Dorne [with purpose served] by ship and focusing a little more on the Martell sails in the fleet.

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25 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Hopefully Arya also reunites with her Direwolf as well. Mel will either die or continue South to Dany. 

That would be nice, but given their track record on direwolves, I am not too hopeful. Nymeria will probably be hangin out with Ghost somewhere, wherever direwolves go.

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1 minute ago, OldGimletEye said:

That would be nice, but given their track record on direwolves, I am not too hopeful. Nymeria will probably be hangin out with Ghost somewhere, wherever direwolves go.

Better there than up in the north. They all seemed to get killed up there.

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Just now, OldGimletEye said:

That would be nice, but given their track record on direwolves, I am not too hopeful. Nymeria will probably be hangin out with Ghost somewhere, wherever direwolves go.

Hopefully with less episodes in s7, they'll have budgeted for the Direwolves instead. Her pack plays a role later on in the series, d&d cannot be that ridiculous. We can do without the Dragons for a couple of eps. 

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47 minutes ago, Karmarni said:

I agree. There will be action there and it's probably a good spot for a clash of armies. The episode definitely made the holder of the Twins something of a contention point too.

I think they'll just scrap it and have Sandor and the BWB move north... to the little bird.

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I just want to clarify something, in show it is not confirmed that Jon is a Targaryen, right? only that he is the son of Lyanna.  Has the relationship between Lyanna and Rhaeger even been breached, ever?

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