[Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussions - First We Take King's Landing Edition

[Morvius]

4 hours ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

Varys negotiated the alliance with Dorne and the Reach without so much as mentioning it to anyone. He certainly wasn't authorised to do so by Dany who was totally absent. Luckily, the crazy ladies are only interested in revenge & bloodshed because he has no authority whatsoever to make any sort of promises.

Obviously Deadpan's cool with it, she's an even more hand's off ruler than St. Tyrion.

Speaking of which, she didn't even appoint St. Tyrion to rule Meereen in her stead, when she flew away last season (given her total control over Drogon it's even more questionable as to why she didn't come straight back), Daario appointed him (who also had questionable authority at best). I guess it's ironic that he's now had the city dumped on him?

I want a scene midway through next season of President of Meereen for Life Daario hunched over a table full of paperwork muttering to himself. Suddenly, he launches himself back from the desk, asking aloud, "What the fuck am I doing?" Then storming out to resume his life as leader of a mercenary band.

I'll be surprised if we ever see anything to do with Meereen again, actually I'll be surprised if anything to do with Meereen is ever mentioned again. Oh well Deadpan renamed Slaver's Bay so I guess that solves the massive political, social and economic upheaval she caused. I mean she burnt some guys with her dragons so there's no way the slavers will try anything ever again with her dragons and everything else on another continent.

What was the point of Meereen in the show anyway? Daenerys did not seem to have learned anything. She did not need to face any really tough choices. Also it seems to validate the idea that Western interventionism in the form of come (bomb?) and go is a viable solution. 

[Neds Secret]

4 hours ago, thehandwipes said:

Stabbed by a small child, no less.  As in, minimal upper body strength.  Think of the lives he could've saved if he's just gotten up and hobbled his ass over to that candle, which definitely would've taken less effort then dragging yourself across the floor with your arms.  Pathetic.

The skills whoever did that candle set up posesses, and the steady hand and confidence that the candles would not fall over when you were lighting them or the flame would not flicker over, first rate pyromancer there, maybe one of Ramsays 20 good men knew how to set it?

[lostcause]

Speaking of the wildfire - I know nothing about explosions - was it believable that it blew up like that with such concussive force? I wondered if it would have been more fire and less instant destruction, if that makes sense?

[Neds Secret]

On 27 June 2016 at 1:09 PM, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

Like I said, this is just a bigger scale version of Dorne. Cersie is Ellaria, killing the guy in charge is all you need to rule.

So if some random walks up and stabs Cersei do they get to be King/queen? It's like that episode of. Futurama where the water people King was replaced daily by people drinking them and such, does anybody know the episode I mean? Where fry accidentally drinks the King and becomes King?

[Darkstream]

7 minutes ago, Neds Secret said:

So if some random walks up and stabs Cersei do they get to be King/queen? It's like that episode of. Futurama where the water people King was replaced daily by people drinking them and such, does anybody know the episode I mean? Where fry accidentally drinks the King and becomes King?

Great comparison, It was an expected occurrence that as soon as you were legitimized as the king, Your predecessor would immediately begin plotting to off you.  I think d$d must have been inspired by this episode.

[Aryya Stark]

On June 27, 2016 at 5:38 AM, Ser Quork said:

I can't believe Tommen's death went for nothing.  Even Cersei's didn't care! 

lol...EXACTLT! ...It was truly terrible.

On June 27, 2016 at 6:18 AM, Cas Stark said:

House Glover:

We've fought with House Stark for 1000 years, except the last 3 episodes.  LMAO.

In a vacuum, sure it's a lovely scene if you don't think about it.

It was so obvious...as soon as the kid started talking I knew she was the one who would change everyone's opinions...the whole scene was childish and immature...grown men one minute say one thing and the next the absolute opposite....swayed by a 10 year old child....lol....so DUMB.

 

On June 27, 2016 at 6:20 AM, Lady Fevre Dream said:

He's just got the new Teleporter 2000  Fuck Batfingers, that's old news.  Hahahaha

lolz

[sweetsunray]

6 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

It sure looks like everyone is at the trial... so then, where did Cersei get this new audience that was in attendance at her special Prom Queen crowning while (I think?) the sept and part of Kings Landing is still burning.

 

ADDING: Sorry if this has already been asked. It just popped into my mind because her crowning scene is bugging me and I think that is why.

Was the first thing I thought during the crowning scene.... wait! what? didn't they all blow up with the sept?

[Aryya Stark]

What the hell was that Arya scene with the Frey Pies? First the whole scene was very stupid. Secondly, I would think she would show a little emotion avenging her mother and brother. The way she just slit his throat all happy....really? No anger? No vengeance?

[Aryya Stark]

5 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Was the first thing I thought during the crowning scene.... wait! what? didn't they all blow up with the sept?

I think they assume the audience is dumb and won't notice.

[sweetsunray]

Regarding the handling of the wildfire and the CGI blast...It was pretty ridiculous. It's made clear in S2 how volatile and unstable the stuff is, how it keeps burning and is hot enough to melt someone in his boots. And you can't put it out either (otherwise the wildfire couldn't have been burning like it did in the bay, in water). The amount of wildfire stashed underneath the sept would pretty much have blasted away that whole hill, flung wildfire kms around in a city that's basically all wood. Half the city should be in ashes.

[Aryya Stark]

5 hours ago, Morvius said:

What was the point of Meereen in the show anyway? Daenerys did not seem to have learned anything. She did not need to face any really tough choices. Also it seems to validate the idea that Western interventionism in the form of come (bomb?) and go is a viable solution. 

There is also the ethical question. Would Dany want to ally with the Dornish women who killed Lord Doran and Trystane for no reason? They committed murder and kinslaying to rule Dorne, I can't believe Dany would want to ally with them after that.

[SeanF]

The Kings Landing scenes worked for me.  Whoever planned to set off the wildfire would want to be well out of the vicinity before it went off.  Hence the candles.

Cersei can get away with mass murder (in the short term) because there are Lannister soldiers in Kings Landing, and people would be terrified of her, and numb with shock over what happened.  Of course, I don't think it will do her any good in the long run. The attendees at her coronation would be whatever important people hadn't been present at the Sept.  I doubt if many of them had any desire to be there (in fact, there wasn't much enthusiasm for Cersei being proclaimed Queen).

My criticism is somewhat different.  We know that Cesei is a villain, because she killed the Tyrells, who are sympathetic.  But if Daenerys or Ellaria Sand had pulled off a similar stunt, would we be expected to see them as "badasses?"  And, I could very easily imagine Daenerys or Ellaria, as they're portrayed in the Show, doing something similar.  Ellaria murdered her brother in law and his son.  Daenerys is increasingly ruthless, and decreasingly empathetic.  Show Daenerys could easily have invited hundreds of Masters into the Great Pyramid to discuss peace, and then set off wildfire, consuming them and those of her own people she was prepared to write off as collateral damage, while watching impassively from a distance.

[SeanF]

6 minutes ago, Aryya Stark said:

There is also the ethical question. Would Dany want to ally with the Dornish women who killed Lord Doran and Trystane for no reason? They committed murder and kinslaying to rule Dorne, I can't believe Dany would want to ally with them after that.

My enemy's enemy is my friend.  Dany in the books is likely to end up allied to some very unsavoury people.

[SeanF]

14 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Regarding the handling of the wildfire and the CGI blast...It was pretty ridiculous. It's made clear in S2 how volatile and unstable the stuff is, how it keeps burning and is hot enough to melt someone in his boots. And you can't put it out either (otherwise the wildfire couldn't have been burning like it did in the bay, in water). The amount of wildfire stashed underneath the sept would pretty much have blasted away that whole hill, flung wildfire kms around in a city that's basically all wood. Half the city should be in ashes.

Kings Landing in the books is mostly built of wood.  But, Kings Landing in the Show is mostly built out of stone.

[sweetsunray]

3 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Kings Landing in the books is mostly built of wood.  But, Kings Landing in the Show is mostly built out of stone.

Well, Half the city should be rubble then. A hill exploding and a building like the sept... the wildfire + all that stone flinging around. It's pretty much the equivalent of a volcano exploding.

[Sir Loin Steak]

6 hours ago, Morvius said:

What was the point of Meereen in the show anyway? Daenerys did not seem to have learned anything. She did not need to face any really tough choices. Also it seems to validate the idea that Western interventionism in the form of come (bomb?) and go is a viable solution. 

Absolutely, they gutted any meaning and character development and ended up sending a message completely counter to the one in the books. They simplified the storyline to the point where all intrigue and politics were gone, they cut or killed off characters that were necessary to Dany's supporting cast and ended up padding it out with with some of the most pointless scenes on the entire show.

Tyrion strolling through Meereen's empty streets with Varys was practically a visual metaphor for what they did with the place. Then they followed that up by having multiple scenes of him having nothing to say to only two remaining supporting characters in the area. Utter incompetence.

[SeanF]

7 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Well, Half the city should be rubble then. A hill exploding and a building like the sept... the wildfire + all that stone flinging around. It's pretty much the equivalent of a volcano exploding.

I should think quite a lot of the city is smoking rubble.

[Aryya Stark]

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

My enemy's enemy is my friend.  Dany in the books is likely to end up allied to some very unsavoury people.

Perhaps, but Dany in the books is an entirely different person from Dany in the show. In the books she has a conscience and principles, like her stance on slavery. We still don't know how she will receive Tyrion...in the books kinslaying is a big deal...the only thing Tyrion has going for him is that it was Tywin he slew. But Prince Doran? He was sort of related to Dany through Rhaegar...they were in-laws. As time passes Dany's character in the books is becoming more complex, more developed, she wants to change the ugly realities around her and create a better world...in the show she just seems to be badass with no purpose but to sit the IT. How does that make her different from Cerise in the show?

I just think it will be very sad if she allies with just anyone for the Iron Throne, especially since the reason Varys gives to Kevan for his support of Aegon is that he will be a better ruler, is sympathetic to the commoners, just, etc. Therefore, in the books it matters to some of the characters what sort of ruler sits the IT. In the books we now know (sort of) that people are more loyal to honorable men like Ned after their deaths than to ruthless men like Tywin. Therefore, these things still count for something in the books.

[dustette]

6 hours ago, Morvius said:

What was the point of Meereen in the show anyway? Daenerys did not seem to have learned anything. She did not need to face any really tough choices. Also it seems to validate the idea that Western interventionism in the form of come (bomb?) and go is a viable solution. 

She didn't need to learn anything because show Dany can always burn her way out. But she did learn to make some incredibly boring speeches. At least book Dany is acutely aware of the problems with colonial rule and sometimes questioning the hypocrisy in her anti-slavery revolution. 

[SeanF]

Just now, Aryya Stark said:

Perhaps, but Dany in the books is an entirely different person from Dany in the show. In the books she has a conscience and principles, like her stance on slavery. We still don't know how she will receive Tyrion...in the books kinslaying is a big deal...the only thing Tyrion has going for him is that it was Tywin he slew. But Prince Doran? He was sort of related to Dany through Rhaegar...they were in-laws. As time passes Dany's character in the books is becoming more complex, more developed, she wants to change the ugly realities around her and create a better world...in the show she just seems to be badass with no purpose but to sit the IT. How does that make her different from Cerise in the show?

I just think it will be very sad if she allies with just anyone for the Iron Throne, especially since the reason Varys gives to Kevan for his support of Aegon is that he will be a better ruler, is sympathetic to the commoners, just, etc. Therefore, in the books it matters to some of the characters what sort of ruler sits the IT. In the books we now know (sort of) that people are more loyal to honorable men like Ned after their deaths than to ruthless men like Tywin. Therefore, these things still count for something in the books.

Daenerys in the books certainly has a conscience.  I expect to see her performing some pretty dark deeds to attain power, but she'll always agonise over them.  And, I'm sure she'll agonise over some of the people she's allied to, and who serve her. 

Daenerys in the Show had a conscience, but I'm not at all sure if it still exists.  But, in the Show, having a conscience is for wimps.