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1 minute ago, GilletteMace said:

i dont get why it is so hard for some to accept time compression to spare the viewer time that is spent uninteresting by filler events. he travels back to meereen whats the big deal? dont you think it will take a month or sth. to equip a fleet and let it finally sail? why do you accept movies spanning centuries but cant when there is a several days of travelling involved? non issue.

It's because of the way the scenes are interconnected. Like spaced out over 1 episode we have a couple of days in Jon's plot, a couple of weeks in Cersies and a couple of months in Dany's. The books did this to lesser degree but the show is getting bad at it.

Yes, I get why they do it, to make each narrative thread seem more intense - but it doesn't make sense when you are trying to think of an epiode as linear. That said, Bran can manipulate time - so who knows - perhaps Northern time is 7 times as fast as central time which is 4 times as fast as southern and Mereen time :D

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8 hours ago, Joe Pesci said:

:agree:I really don't get why this is such a difficult thing to accept. 

My issue with that is it still makes no sense for Varys to be in both places. His point of leaving Dany for Westros was to find allies and help pave the way for her invasion. 

First and foremost, it would be a massive waste of his time to travel all the way to Westeros then all the way back to Slavers Bay, only to travel back to Westeros. 

It would make a lot more sense for him to continue to work on and build a stronger Tyrell and Dorne alliance and grow homeland support for Dany, as well as gather more information from Westeros for her. 

If it made sense, such as Petyr teleporting to the north to have a conversation with Sansa, I don't have a problem with it. But Varys traveling the world several times over? There would be no reason for it, only needless danger. 

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8 hours ago, Pile-O-Starks said:

This again? Not every scene happens in exact chronological order in relation to scenes in other storylines. The feast at the Twins would obviously have happened well after Riverrun, and who knows how long before Riverrun Arya's Braavos arc ended? It doesn't matter for storylines that are parallel.

If you want to gripe, try explaining how Jaime got back to KL while it was still burning and the fire still hadn't gone out or spread. Easy to explain: he was on his way there before the bomb went off, and they showed the first Twins scene out of chronological order for dramatic effect.

7 hours ago, montey13 said:

 it's not hard to figure out .....Varys was sent to recruit Dorne and he got the Martells as well ....Danny sets sail and links up with the Dornish and Martells as they come through .....not that hard really .....do you really want them to show what would take 4 weeks of travel....I mean they only get a few minutes for a scene...lol

 

6 hours ago, Battle Kitten said:

Because an episode doesn't take a day. Stuff is shown out of sequence.  I really think viewers today are super lazy and expect everything to be drawn out and explained.  There is a thing called inference.

So here is the thing: I get that stuff happens out of sequence and that we have to skip some time lags for the sake of the story. I don't have a problem with that, just like I didn't have a problem with The North storyline in this season happening much faster and across way more space than other storylines. But the Varys thing was incredibly jarring because it defied the already established in story logic and didn't seem to actually have a purpose overall.

Dany's entire story is predicated on the fact that she is far away from Westeros. In the early seasons when people still remember that Dany is around and had married a warlord she is written off by people in KL because she's halfway around the world, theoretically so far that getting to Westeros would be a huge obstacle. In her story it's treated like this incredible distance, and when we see other people getting to her it feels that way. Remember Varys and Tyrion in season 5 taking half a season to get to her? Even Yara and the Iron Fleet had a stop in Volantis and a several episode journey to get between the Iron Islands and Mereen. Up until this point there has been at least a one episode gap between anyone leaving Mereen and returning (even Dany this season took several eps to get back, despite Drogon). So when Varys shows up both in Westeros and in Mereen in the same episode it just feels like it cheapens the narrative they've created about the distance between the two places, and it does it for no reason. We don't need Varys on the ship, we don't need the Martell and Tyrell ships as part of their fleet right now. All we needed was a moment for someone to inform Dany she had allies in the Tyrells and the Martells and for us to have that long awaited shot of the Targaryen ships sailing away from Slaver's Bay.

As it was we missed Dany finding out she had allies (A BIG MOMENT) and the whole world was considerably shrunk down in viewer space to make it look like sailing fleets between Slaver's Bay and Mereen is easy peasy, just another day's work. Internally and from a viewer's perspective it just didn't make sense, imho. 

4 hours ago, Dany's Golden Fleece said:

Disappointed we didnt get that scene where Dany and Varys meet for the first time :-( . 

Right? Especially since she knows he's the one that Jorah was reporting to and he wanted her dead at one point. I think that would have been a way more important scene to show. 

 

1 hour ago, The Lord of the Waters said:

I did have a real WTF!? moment when I saw Varys on the ship, fair enough there could have been a certain amount of time between when we saw him in Dorne etc. But really, it's just totally unnecessary to show him on that ship. Why do it?
And there were Martell sails amongst the ships of Dany's fleet... But the fleet is sailing to Westeros.. why would a dornish fleet sail all the way over the Meereen, just to come back to attack Westeros.. And where is Dany going to land her fleet? Surely Dorne might make a good place to start if they are her allies?

They basically did it just to have Varys on the ship, for visual 'wow' effect, like 'look how strong Dany's fleet/allies/advisors are'.
From a timeline point it's forgivable, but really it doesn't make sense if you think about it, there is no reason for Varys to travel back and fore for weeks at a time, and with a fleet or Dornish ships also.. it's just silly really.

Right? That's my thing like on top of how jarring it was, there wasn't a reason. We can establish alliances in much more satisfying ways, and there's no reason the fleet would have sailed to Mereen just to sail back again. 

1 hour ago, IamMe90 said:

The issue isn't that the timeline is unrealistic. The issue is that they didn't devote a mere fifteen fucking seconds to having Varys explaining to Dany (or Tyrion, whatever) that the mission was successful and that they had won over Dorne and house Tyrell to their cause. Then, BOOM! sail! 

Yes. That. 

 

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9 minutes ago, ummester said:

It's because of the way the scenes are interconnected. Like spaced out over 1 episode we have a couple of days in Jon's plot, a couple of weeks in Cersies and a couple of months in Dany's. The books did this to lesser degree but the show is getting bad at it.

Yes, I get why they do it, to make each narrative thread seem more intense - but it doesn't make sense when you are trying to think of an epiode as linear. That said, Bran can manipulate time - so who knows - perhaps Northern time is 7 times as fast as central time which is 4 times as fast as southern and Mereen time :D

i would recommend to adapt to the storytelling that the show delivers. it has made these jumpcuts all the time, so there really is nothing special about it. judging this as timetravelling or jetpacking is pretty childish. the cuts serve a purpose, to avoid fillerscenes. i think its better that way then to get bored all the time. (stuff like tyrion with these two idiots was boring enough...)

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1 minute ago, GilletteMace said:

i would recommend to adapt to the storytelling that the show delivers. it has made these jumpcuts all the time, so there really is nothing special about it. judging this as timetravelling or jetpacking is pretty childish. the cuts serve a purpose, to avoid fillerscenes. i think its better that way then to get bored all the time. (stuff like tyrion with these two idiots was boring enough...)

Well yea - that makes it worse. You can accept jump cuts if every scene is intense and meaningful but then we have stupid Tyrion beer fly jokes.

They can't have both. Fine, use jump cuts and non linear story telling but then cut out the boring crap. Seriously, imagine how much better this epiode would have been if there was no lame Dany Dhario scene, no lame Tyrion scene and instead we were given some context for Arya's kill and Vary's travelling.It would have been a 10/10 then.

And if people like us sitting on a forum can see it, why can't people who are paid big bucks to make the fucking thing see it?

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9 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

As I've said before, For the sake of narrative, I'm willing to assume that scenes are are sometimes shown out of sequence and that the 10 episodes don't take place over 10 consecutive days.

For things to look realistic, events that are far apart have to be far apart for the viewers as well.

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8 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Obviously, but it still looked bad the way it was shown. Couldn't they have shown Varys actually return, and inform Dany that he secured alliances with Dorne and Olenna?

Seems silly she wud accept varys so easily. I no he's done alot for her behind the scenes but surely their first meeting was worth showing. ..

8 hours ago, mafro987daboss said:

Is it me or has the show never dealt with the fact that Varys tried to kill Daenerys in season 1? She's never had a conversation with Varys or about the 'spymaster' that tried to kill her. Another ridiculous plothole considering she clearly just let him onto her ship.

Exactly 

5 hours ago, Dany's Golden Fleece said:

Disappointed we didnt get that scene where Dany and Varys meet for the first time :-( . 

Yes. The time travel I can deal with. But Dany taking varys into her fold that simply seems off

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34 minutes ago, Rumy Stark said:

Dany's entire story is predicated on the fact that she is far away from Westeros. In the early seasons when people still remember that Dany is around and had married a warlord she is written off by people in KL because she's halfway around the world, theoretically so far that getting to Westeros would be a huge obstacle. In her story it's treated like this incredible distance, and when we see other people getting to her it feels that way. Remember Varys and Tyrion in season 5 taking half a season to get to her? Even Yara and the Iron Fleet had a stop in Volantis and a several episode journey to get between the Iron Islands and Mereen. Up until this point there has been at least a one episode gap between anyone leaving Mereen and returning (even Dany this season took several eps to get back, despite Drogon). So when Varys shows up both in Westeros and in Mereen in the same episode it just feels like it cheapens the narrative they've created about the distance between the two places, and it does it for no reason. We don't need Varys on the ship, we don't need the Martell and Tyrell ships as part of their fleet right now. All we needed was a moment for someone to inform Dany she had allies in the Tyrells and the Martells and for us to have that long awaited shot of the Targaryen ships sailing away from Slaver's Bay.

As it was we missed Dany finding out she had allies (A BIG MOMENT) and the whole world was considerably shrunk down in viewer space to make it look like sailing fleets between Slaver's Bay and Mereen is easy peasy, just another day's work. Internally and from a viewer's perspective it just didn't make sense, imho. 

Well said. It's supposed to be a huge distance, and every other journey between Westeros and Meereen has been much longer. Now it's no longer a journey, it's a trip.

And like Dany's Golden Fleece says, why no first-time meeting between Varys and Dany? At least give us ten seconds of a smirking Varys entering the throne room in the middle of a conversation about possible allies: "Perhaps I can bring some news ... my queen."

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People complain about Dany staying in Meeren for two season and now when she is finally going to Westeros it's suddenly to soon. What you want another three episode of preparations?

They should explain time pass, they needed 15 secunds to do so. For me it was clear that she is near Westeros and that time is pass, when I saw Martell and Tyrell ships, but I agree that is bit confusing.

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About this entire thread I read people saying: Varys should've sent a message to Dany telling him about the allies he found.
How? There are no ravens flying between Westeros and Mereen (heck, I doubt ravens would be able to fly over the narrow sea.
So the only way to do this, is by sending a ship. Varys would be the only one to send such a message, because he doesn;t trust anybody else with such a message.
And, if you are sending a ship with a message about allies, why not enforce that same message with some ships of the people you have allied with. That does emphasise that you're not telling bullshit.

To me it makes total sense.

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Yeah I'm usually very willing to give leeway to things like this, but this scene just seemed very jarring to me (and its not the only time). I'd be willing to forgive it if Dany didn't arrive in Westeros for the several episodes of season 7, giving Varys time to have gotten back. The distance between Sunspear and Meereen is immense in Medieval terms, especially when you take into account the fact that the road to Meereen from Sunspear is hardly a straight line.

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7 hours ago, TheWatcherofWatchers said:

There were Martell and Tyrell banners on those ships. He recruited them to serve under Daenerys and they're all heading for King's Landing.

I know that but still it doesn't make sense. It also breaks immersion, they had just shown him in Dorne 5 min later he is on a ship leaving Meereen towards.... Dorne.

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1 hour ago, OrcusOfUndeath said:

Yeah I'm usually very willing to give leeway to things like this, but this scene just seemed very jarring to me (and its not the only time). I'd be willing to forgive it if Dany didn't arrive in Westeros for the several episodes of season 7, giving Varys time to have gotten back. The distance between Sunspear and Meereen is immense in Medieval terms, especially when you take into account the fact that the road to Meereen from Sunspear is hardly a straight line.

Delaying Dany getting to Westeros for several episodes just to give Varys time to get back to Meereen? With only 14 (possibly) episodes left, there is just no time for anything like this, which is probably why Varys was on the ship. Could they have just left him in Dorne? Sure, but it gives the viewers a visual confirmation that Dorne and Highgarden are now committed allies with Dany. Also, Varys told Tyrion that if he found allies in Westeros that he would return. I'm sure if the ships of Dorne and Highgarden just appeared without Varys, it would get nitpicked to death about it being some huge plot hole. He showed up like he said he would, with allies. 

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12 hours ago, Rumy Stark said:

Ok I know this show plays with time travel but how in the world was Varys with the fleet in that final scene???? We literally saw him in Dorne IN THIS EP.

 

I am just so confused right now. Why was it even necessary for him to be there? Like why couldn't he have just waited to welcome them in Dorne? I am confused. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Littlefinger and Varys have a Tardys or something.Sam took almost a year to arrive to the citadel,while Varys went from Mereen to Dorne and back to Mereen in a matter of what? Weeks? Not even the pirate lesbian was as fast as Varys.

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12 hours ago, Rumy Stark said:

Ok I know this show plays with time travel but how in the world was Varys with the fleet in that final scene???? We literally saw him in Dorne IN THIS EP.

Won't even go into the fact that Dorne has't had a Navy in hundreds of years.

 

God this is just awful.

12 hours ago, Rumy Stark said:

 

I am just so confused right now. Why was it even necessary for him to be there? Like why couldn't he have just waited to welcome them in Dorne? I am confused. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Yes. Your confusion comes from you trying to use what seems like a good, healthy and functioning brain. What you need to do is pretend, for a moment, you are a total moron. This will be difficult as having read your comments it seems very far from the truth. But, like a Buddhist monk who loses himself in meditation, try to pretend you are a moron...then think back on the scene and say "uhhhhduuuuhhhhhh look at all the ships. Yay dany!"

 

This is similar to how I predict show plots. For instance, I knew that Dorne would be involved because what I did was get myself into a mind frame where I was painfully stupid and then said "what do I think would be totally awesome"

In this respect, I was not surprised to see the sand skanks

 

I hope this helped

 

 

:)

 

 

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6 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

Won't even go into the fact that Dorne has't had a Navy in hundreds of years.

 

God this is just awful.

Yes. Your confusion comes from you trying to use what seems like a good, healthy and functioning brain. What you need to do is pretend, for a moment, you are a total moron. This will be difficult as having read your comments it seems very far from the truth. But, like a Buddhist monk who loses himself in meditation, try to pretend you are a moron...then think back on the scene and say "uhhhhduuuuhhhhhh look at all the ships. Yay dany!"

 

This is similar to how I predict show plots. For instance, I knew that Dorne would be involved because what I did was get myself into a mind frame where I was painfully stupid and then said "what do I think would be totally awesome"

In this respect, I was not surprised to see the sand skanks

 

I hope this helped

 

 

:)

 

 

Just forget it, I'm lost for words.

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Just now, Alan of Rosby said:

What is he doing, just hopping back and forth between Essos and Westeros willy nilly? Does he have special eunuch motor boat abilities?

Presumably he is using the same kind of super speed stealth power boat that the sand skanks used to get to kings landing to kill trystane.

 

However, it is also possible that in his travels Gendry has acquired the stealth technology from the dornish and the littlefinger teleportation secrets and has tricked out the row boat and is using it to ferry people all around.

 

The really odd thing is that Dorne has not had any ships since Princess Nymeria and her husband Lors Martell burned the fleet that brought Nymeria and the valyerian slaves to Dorne and proceeded to conquer Dorne.

 

 

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Just now, YOVMO said:

Presumably he is using the same kind of super speed stealth power boat that the sand skanks used to get to kings landing to kill trystane.

 

However, it is also possible that in his travels Gendry has acquired the stealth technology from the dornish and the littlefinger teleportation secrets and has tricked out the row boat and is using it to ferry people all around.

 

The really odd thing is that Dorne has not had any ships since Princess Nymeria and her husband Lors Martell burned the fleet that brought Nymeria and the valyerian slaves to Dorne and proceeded to conquer Dorne.

 

 

Am I getting this totally wrong? Maybe the order was mixed up, he was on the fleet with Dany and Tyrion and then went to Dorne on Dany's behalf. They showed the scene out of order for effect maybe.

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Just now, Alan of Rosby said:

Am I getting this totally wrong? Maybe the order was mixed up, he was on the fleet with Dany and Tyrion and then went to Dorne on Dany's behalf. They showed the scene out of order for effect maybe.

but in the last scene where Dany is sailing to westeros there are ships with her three headed dragon, ships with the Greyjoy kracken and ships with the sun and spear of martell so, apparently, the dornish navy (ugh) sailed to Meeren to rendezvous with dany so they could all go to westeros together.

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