grufolo Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 On 27/6/2016 at 6:08 AM, Donaldys I Trumpagar said: For one, he didn't/couldn't foresee Jon bringing a wildling army down to defeat Ramsay. Regardless, I never did get that plot line -- why give up Sansa at all, it helps cement his place in the Vale. He wrote the pink letter and caused the battle so that he could come and save the day. What he doesn't know is Jon's true parentage, and that would bite him in the a** eventually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilletteMace Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 his "one true goal" is a lie. first and foremost LF is a pimp, he lies to young stupid women and tricks them into love so he can manipulate them to make money. now with Sansa he wants to do the same trick, not for the money but for the power. as soon as she marries him he will kick her down the moon door. there are no emotions in LF, this is such a basic pimping rule its very easy to see in him. LF gives a shit about Sansa. dont be naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValrianSunni Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 On June 27, 2016 at 0:07 AM, Bran Snow said: His plan was to have Sansa being Warden of the North after taking care of the Boltons. That way he would have the North and the Vale behind him. With the rest of the country pretty much killing each other, he'd have a strong army to take the Iron Throne. Because this. Sansa is anyone's key to the North. By giving her to the Boltons he wipes out Stannis' claim to the North, and separates the Boltons and Lannisters weakening both. He can use Sansa as long as she stays alive, which she did. I don't think LF counted on Jon, or the North rising for Jon as King in the North, but still (true to form) LF is working to separate Sansa from Jon with all his comments to her about Jon as her "half-brother" and his proposal of Sansa by his side with him on the Iron Throne. What I found interesting was Sansa's response to LF's picture of them together. "That's a nice picture," she said. Then she walked away. Not yes, not no. I believe her when she tells Jon she will never trust LF. She threatened to have Brienne kill him, after all. Sansa is stringing LF along, using him as he is trying to use her. She has become smarter than her mother was. I think Sansa has a new appreciation for the North, for Winterfell, and for the real power that she holds there and there alone. I don't think Sansa has any interest in returning to Kings Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreOrLess Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 36 minutes ago, ValrianSunni said: What I found interesting was Sansa's response to LF's picture of them together. "That's a nice picture," she said. Then she walked away. Not yes, not no. I believe her when she tells Jon she will never trust LF. She threatened to have Brienne kill him, after all. Sansa is stringing LF along, using him as he is trying to use her. She has become smarter than her mother was. I think Sansa has a new appreciation for the North, for Winterfell, and for the real power that she holds there and there alone. I don't think Sansa has any interest in returning to Kings Landing. I wouldn't rule out her being prepared to go back to Kings Landing if needed but I'd say if her motivation differs from Jon's its likely not to be desire for power from its own ends but rather looking to counter threats from the sound and maybe seek some revenge. The key difference between Sansa and everyone but arguably Varys is that she knows he much better and doesn't underestimate him. That's really been where a lot of his success has come previously, Ned, Cersei, Tywin and even the Queen of Thorns knew he was a schemer but they had him down as a minor player in the game relative to themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rory Snow Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 2 hours ago, MoreOrLess said: The key difference between Sansa and everyone but arguably Varys is that she knows he much better and doesn't underestimate him. That's really been where a lot of his success has come previously, Ned, Cersei, Tywin and even the Queen of Thorns knew he was a schemer but they had him down as a minor player in the game relative to themselves. Yup, and it's that knowledge that might lead Baelish to try to kill her as soon as she stops being useful. Unless she's helping Pinkie to advance, she's a liability to him because she can expose his falseness at any time. Obviously Sansa is of great value to LF if thru her he controls Winterfell & The North, thus Jon is a major obstacle for him. As soon as Baelish concludes that he cant separate Sansa & Jon, Sansa's life may be in danger because for Pinkie's purposes, she needs to say silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroesAndVillains Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 On 7/3/2016 at 3:12 PM, Morgana Lannister said: Well, I never in books or show ever believed that "keep them guessing" thing. It is true that it is hard to see through all LF's complex motivations but for instance merely confusing people wasn't why he got rid of Joffrey. I am absolutely certain that he benefited from his death too in some way (although he had prospered under his reign), however, for one thing he keeps framing Tyrion time and time again. The only explanation I have for this (got to be more than Tyrion being in the wrong place all the time and hence an easy target for LF to frame). I have this crackpot theory that Tyrion has something big on Baelish and from the beginning of the series. Certainly after he became his successor as Master of Coin so he needs him out of the way so getting his head chopped off for Joffrey's murder served this purpose. Also of course, there is Sansa. I can't remember exactly how Tywin found out about the Tyrells' plans for her but either way, he needed her free but incriminated (and then easy to dominate forever) by making her an accessory in this murder. Also because of the Tyrell's involvement he has their secrets too. Basically I think he is just building up power against anyone he thinks may be or may grow into becoming a threat. Now, okay this plot re Sansa/Ramsay is a complete departure from the books but as the show goes I could venture to guess that he had made Sansa too potentially dangerous by letting her into the mystery of the Purple Wedding, also despite the fact that she lied to protect him, she knows how Lysa died... She needed her out of the way, although granted I don't think he wanted her killed or abused in such a horrible way. He understimated Ramsay but he has made very fundamental mistakes with her. Also I think he never expected Tyrion to survive and certainly not raise to power again (albeit on a different team). I would be very worried if I were Petyr because I reckon the chickens are definitely going to come home to roost soon. I reckon sometime in book 6 or beginning or 7... Tyrion is just an easy target, he's exploiting Cersei's blind hatred for him as well as other people's apathy for Tyrion which is a huge. Could be possible but if Tyrion had that information surely he would have played that card when he was soon to be executed? I agree, he made a mistake with the Ramsey marriage because perhaps when it comes to Sansa he acts less shrewdly? Remember Varys' speech in the fourth season where he says to Oberyn that desire is a weakness. Varys and Littlefinger are both master manipulators but unlike Varys Littlefinger possesses desire (for Sansa) and it will probably be things related to her where he will make his worst mistakes and will be his ultimate downfall. Yeah he definitely didn't want her hurt but probably really wanted the north for her and himself and made this idiotic mistake to get it. Hah yeah he is definitely getting his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 On 7/7/2016 at 0:11 AM, HeroesAndVillains said: Tyrion is just an easy target, he's exploiting Cersei's blind hatred for him as well as other people's apathy for Tyrion which is a huge. Could be possible but if Tyrion had that information surely he would have played that card when he was soon to be executed? I agree, he made a mistake with the Ramsey marriage because perhaps when it comes to Sansa he acts less shrewdly? Remember Varys' speech in the fourth season where he says to Oberyn that desire is a weakness. Varys and Littlefinger are both master manipulators but unlike Varys Littlefinger possesses desire (for Sansa) and it will probably be things related to her where he will make his worst mistakes and will be his ultimate downfall. Yeah he definitely didn't want her hurt but probably really wanted the north for her and himself and made this idiotic mistake to get it. Hah yeah he is definitely getting his. Still thinking George has something up his sleeve re Tyrion/Petyr... it might be something so obvious that the Imp cannot fathom it yet... but there is something or else why put so much emphasis (George) on LF framing Tyrion time and time again? Okay, yeah, to create tension between the Starks and the Lannisters... but to me, like when LF claimed he just wants to act "unpredictably" it doesn't feel convincing enough. Tyrion is not stupid, has some knowledge already and has so far failed to act on it re LF... I think something is definitely brewing but the time hasn't been ripe yet. Okay, I confess that I am very taken with the idea that the Imp and Sansa will take him down (or massively "tame" him together) and I could well be wrong but, to me, is just too tempting an idea to let it pass if I were the author... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Capicola Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 On 6/27/2016 at 0:24 AM, Stannistician said: The other side of the handshake with Cercei is that after LF took out the Boltons with the Vale army, he was supposed to bring Sansa's head to Cercei - and then, and only then would he be named Warden of the North. LF would be reneging on his deal with Cercei if he seated Sansa as Lady of Winterfell. He would at that point be an enemy of the crown and would lose most of what he has gained. I'm sure Littlefinger realized things would be coming to a head in the capital with the Lannisters, Tyrells, and the Faith. He knew that there was a good chance that a Lannister crown would either be in no position to threaten him with the North and the Vale behind him or Tyrells who are team Sansa would be in power. 2 things I think he miscalculated, the North rallying behind Jon and Cersei going jihad on the Faith with the Tyrells as welcome collateral damage. It also is odd that LF seems to be oblivious to Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 2 hours ago, Hot Capicola said: I'm sure Littlefinger realized things would be coming to a head in the capital with the Lannisters, Tyrells, and the Faith. He knew that there was a good chance that a Lannister crown would either be in no position to threaten him with the North and the Vale behind him or Tyrells who are team Sansa would be in power. 2 things I think he miscalculated, the North rallying behind Jon and Cersei going jihad on the Faith with the Tyrells as welcome collateral damage. It also is odd that LF seems to be oblivious to Dany. I really agree with you here especially on LF counting on the fact that the Lannisters rule in KL will be short lived. Just like when Tywin was telling Tyrion that the Boltons would not be a long term thread to him (by his marriage to Sansa) getting Winterfell. I think all the players know that the Iron Throne will pass onto someone else's hand in not such a long period or time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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