How did marrying Sansa to Ramsay help Littlefinger achieve his 'one true goal'?

[Rubicante]

2 hours ago, LordPathera said:

Because the plot says so

To take it a step further, because the Texas Rattlesnake, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin said so.

This is how D & D should deal with people who question any plot holes dealing with Littlefinger.  Send Stone Cold to keep them quiet.

[xjlxking]

By marrying Sansa to the Boltons he would call on the vale to save her from the abuse. 

By saving her, he might get the north by either the crown or by taking sansas hand.

With the north and the vale being commanded by him, I'm sure he would declare war on the crown or use Dorne + Tyrell's to declare war.

 

i think he was just betting on Sansa saying yes 

[Sigrid]

On 6/27/2016 at 8:21 PM, GOTFanatic said:

He did it to manipulate the Crown / Cersei into essentially defriending the Bolton's, he wanted the North for himself. His plan, as discussed with Cersei, was to let Stannis and the Bolton's fight, then come and clean up afterwards to get rid of them both. Cersei promised to make him Warden of the North if he followed through. If he didn't do this Lannister forces may have aided against Stannis' army, and he wouldn't have claim to the North at all. Of course he didn't forsee Jon's uprising and taking back of his home, so his plan didn't go according to .......plan!

It was genius and pivotal to the plot, how did people miss it?

But again, isn't he know risking the wrath of the Lannisters by openly proclaiming himself for house Stark once he follows through on those plans?  

On 6/27/2016 at 8:53 PM, LordPathera said:

They don't miss it, they just rightly point out that it was stupid, unnecessary and that LF could have thought of a way better plan than hand Sansa over to get raped and tortured by the Boltons. And it's made more ridiculous by the notion that someone as well-informed and intelligent as Littlefinger wouldn't know about the Bolton's true nature or what he was throwing Sansa into.

 

On 6/27/2016 at 8:53 PM, Bazil said:

In the show they made him more power hungry and less of a pedophile than he is in the books. Quite frankly I don't think he'll do anything similar in the books.  It seems out of character for him.  Obviously he wanted Sansa ever since Caitlyn (his 1st one sided love) was lost.  Except with this one he has all the control (as he engineered) and he knows she's still a maiden.  It seems to me he wouldn't let a dog eat off his dinner plate before him (so to speak).  Sansa isn't just a pawn to him, she's the (proxy for) the love of his life.

I always found it very hard to believe that LF would have let go of Sansa for these exact reasons.  He wouldn't give his prize away to someone with the reputation of the Boltons, especially not Ramsay.  Beyond feelings for Sansa, the Boltons are clearly not reliable.  They are too unpredictable for him to give away an asset as valuable as the last known living Stark that by the way he has the hots for.  He either ends up with an damaged Sansa who hates him, or a dead Sansa, neither of which are much use to him.

I find it impossible to believe LF would not know the kind of things Ramsay was capable of.  In other discussions on this topic I've been told by people arguing away his stupidity that according to the actor/showrunners LF was supposed to have been sincere when he said he did not realize what would happen to Sansa.

I agree, it was LF's plan to let the Boltons and Stannis slug it out and then ride in and the opportune moment with what everyone thinks is the last living Stark, but to me that moment had not occurred yet.

It really all comes from Sansa taking over Jeyne Poole's storyline in the books. That plan was actually Tywin's brainchild and the Lannisters, Boltons, and possibly LF (don't totally remember) are all in on the fact that it's a fake Arya.  Sansa taking it over means that not only is Sansa's character arc irreparably changed, but several other characters have to change in the plot direction and character motivation.

On 6/27/2016 at 9:35 PM, Winter Is Overdue said:

I still don't get why show-LF wants the Iron Throne. It doesn't fit for me. I've always thought of LF as someone who wants to be the ultimate puppetmaster, not the puppet. He'd want someone on the throne that he can manipulate and control, not to be on the throne himself.

I completely agree with this.  The show having him outright say his goal is the Iron Throne rang false to me.  LF doesn't want all of the trappings of royalty, he wants the power.  

[Iron Mother]

LF had to court whoever was in power at that moment.  He courted Bolton successfully AND Cersei at the same time on two opposing matters. 

It all leads to him staying afloat to BE THERE when the opportunity for the Iron Throne makes itself known.  Positioning takes time and patience.  Your immediate goal is hardly ever your end goal.  It only sustains you until final goal shows itself in your reach.

[Ranger Kragin]

On 27 June 2016 at 6:15 AM, lancerman said:

It didn't because Sansa choose to back Jon. It's pretty clear the one thing LF didn't anticipate was that Sansa would escape. Had she stayed there, he could have just recued her with the Vale army. Installed her in the North and married her as the guy who rescued her. Then he could feign everything and say he gathered his troops and went to rescue her as soon as he found out what Ramsay was doing. LF wasn't anticipating a Sansa and Jon team up.

Otherwise he would have been fine. Even if Sansa died he could take the Vale to Winterfell and Cersie would install him as Warden.

 

 

What LF didn't anticipate was Sansa to survive Ramsay. For a once brothel's keeper it seems unlikely to me that the man wasn't informed on Ramsay's particular proclivities.

Then: why should Cercei would want LF to help Sansa? Cercei hates Sansa. She wants her dead. With her death, LF would have had to attack the Boltons (on the "order" of Sweet Robyn, they are cousins after all) and take Winterfell with Cercei's blessings.

I believe that was his plan. Sansa beat him to it by escaping alive and seeking for Jon's help.

By the look on her face at the end of the episode, when the North started to remember and pledged for Jon except LF, she realizes that she has now won a treacherous enemy for Jon.

 

[GOTFanatic]

22 hours ago, Sigrid said:

But again, isn't he know risking the wrath of the Lannisters by openly proclaiming himself for house Stark once he follows through on those plans?  

He didn't plan on Jon coming with an army, he didn't anticipate that he would be proclaiming for house Stark. After the Boltons and Stannis were disposed of, he was suppose to be made Warden of the North. The Lannisters simply wanted the North as an ally, they want the kingdoms to be loyal to the crown and the realm to be stable. First plan was to wed Tyrion to Sansa, new plan was to have Baelish, someone they trust, as the Warden. 

[Sigrid]

2 minutes ago, GOTFanatic said:

He didn't plan on Jon coming with an army, he didn't anticipate that he would be proclaiming for house Stark. After the Boltons and Stannis were disposed of, he was suppose to made Warden of the North, in legal terms, and Sansa would be his wife (or so he planned).

And he would be in big trouble with the Lannisters for marrying the person that is wanted for Joffrey's murder.  That's why the Lannisters felt betrayed by the Boltons in the first place.

[GOTFanatic]

1 minute ago, Sigrid said:

And he would be in big trouble with the Lannisters for marrying the person that is wanted for Joffrey's murder.  That's why the Lannisters felt betrayed by the Boltons in the first place.

I edited my post, I believe I was mistaken. I think he actually may have planned for her to die either by Ramsay or by the battle that would ensue. 

[MtnLion]

33 minutes ago, GOTFanatic said:

I edited my post, I believe I was mistaken. I think he actually may have planned for her to die either by Ramsay or by the battle that would ensue. 

He could have planned to masquerade her death, too, if she survived.  His plans always play both ends, to elevate his position.  In season one, Varys knows Littlefinger's heart's desire.  He says so, as Littlefinger is staring longingly at the throne. 

[zalim]

well nothing suddenly happens in the show weeks and months pass between some scenes so lilfinger went to KL months ago...

anyway you have a very good point i can only theorize this 

D&D had a plane (maybe according to them a good one) so maybe that is why they married sansa to ramsay and also introduced SS and dorne so late in the show, they thought maybe SS and Dorne would be a hit with the fan since it is very interesting in the books but it failed miserably, they thought they will introduce dorne and SS and drag the show up till maybe full 8 or 9 seasons yet the failue of it cause the blunders of season 6 killing of so many good characters so quickly and early... and now we are barely getting 15 more episodes to watch.

 

They might have plane something different for sansa and ramsay after their marriage, maybe more games full of plotholes yet failue of dorne forced them to shorten all of it,  if dorne was a hit with the fan, we might have seen lannisters vs dorne war or something but as i said failure of the dorne made them change all of their planes... so that is why it all seems useless sansa marrying ramsay and all and killing of so many characters and all, now to correct their past mistakes, they didnt let us suffer dorne so much and turn them into useless characters and tbh thats what they are the only scene i liked was SSs tits which she showed to bronn rest was all BS

[Tchzaelous]

How did marrying Sansa to Ramsay help Littlefinger achieve his 'one true goal'?

By making it easier for the writing staff to merge storylines. Nothing in-story makes sense.

[Zorral]

12 minutes ago, Tchzaelous said:

How did marrying Sansa to Ramsay help Littlefinger achieve his 'one true goal'?

By making it easier for the writing staff to merge storylines. Nothing in-story makes sense.

Particularly as in the novels THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN.  So show, writers, audience -- screwed.

[Coldfins]

I think his focus is on Kings Landing and not the North. By breaking down the Bolton-Lannister alliance he isolated the Lannisters, made them paranoid about who they can trust and pushed Cersei into a corner, with predictable results. Tywin was confident that the Boltons and Freys would be loyal no matter what because of the Red Wedding and the rewards, but Littlefinger's actions showed that up. 

Cersei not being able to trust the Boltons increased her dependence on the Tyrells, LF's erstwhile allies. She hated that and more chaos was created.

[illinifan]

LF wants Sansa as the replacement Cat.  He thinks he can have both.. power and the replacement Cat.  He may have love Cat once but would sell her out now and will sell out her daughter.  LF would burn the world down to be king of the ashes.

And I think that LF will survive.  He will become head of the Iron Bank or something.  I would like a chilling discussion where LF states to Jon Targaryen or Tyrion Lannnister, the Hand, how he controls everything with money.

[jandslegate]

On 6/26/2016 at 11:31 PM, Into the Weirwood said:

Yeah... I don't buy this "I love Sansa" thing. To me that's what interesting about LF: he wants power and at this point he won't allow his feelings (if they do exist) for anyone to be a weakness of his. If Sansa comes along with it then fine, if not so be it.

 

Exactly...and to quote LF himself 'only Cat.'

[SerMixalot]

He had the woman he wanted beside him on the Iron Throne marry Ramsey?  What if Ramsey lived a long long time? 

 

Speaks for itself.

[brightflame princess]

On 6/26/2016 at 7:48 PM, Fox of House McCloud said:

He gained nothing from his brief "alliance" with the Boltons. Even though he managed to get Cersei's approval to attack the Bolton's and become Warden of the North (by marrying Sansa to Ramsay, then using it as proof of the Bolton's betraying the crown), that doesn't count for anything when he immediately declares for Sansa anyways. Was there any point to it at all, or was it just nonsense thrown together by the showrunners to try to hit a book plotline?

I don't think LF was being totally honest with sansa about what his end goal really is. He just came right out and said it.. When has LF ever been honest to anybody? 

I think he sees her as a pawn. He doesn't love her, he would be glad with any queen, as long as he is king. Maybe he does want the iron throne.. but I'm certain he only wants sansa because he can use her to get there. I think he really thought sansa would go for it, and it shook him up quite a bit when she denied him. 

So to answer your question, he does and says whatever he can to get his end goal, which could definitely be the iron throne, although that could be a lie. Giving sansa to the boltons furthered that goal somehow. 

Or d & d really wanted sansas character to get more action, so they made her marry ramsay. (That wasn't in the books, as you probably know) they seem to do a lot of silly things in the show without thinking about it in depth.. All they can think about is viewer ratings.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

No one here seems to remember that Stannis was also a factor.  Not only did LFs plan cause a rupture between the Lannisters and Boltons, but it also put a huge target on Ramsey's back for Stannis, who I think LF would have known was at the wall.  Stannis needed Sansa as much as anyone to hold the North. 

So another aspect of the plan that is SO Littlefinger.  Stannis and Boltons will weaken each other giving him the chance to ride in with The Vale with minimal losses.  It was possible that Stannis would win, or the Boltons would.  Didn't matter for LF plans too much.  Either way he gets to ride in like a hero.  Which he STILL did, of course.  

And whether he knows about Ramsey doesn't matter too much.  I think he didn't ask too many questions so he could have plausible deniability.  Whether he's an asshole or a great guy LF will make sure he dies somehow.

[Sandor Clegainz]

I guess Littlefinger also planned on Ramsay killing Roose. Or at the very least Roose being dead. Because even with the mounted knights he could never take Winterfell unless they met him on the field. Roose wouldn't be lured out like Ramsay was.

[Chib]

I am puzzled by the Show LF. Writers have made my favourite characters much less than he actually is in the book. But well at least I like the actor.