Still a bastard (spoilers)

[princess_snow]

41 minutes ago, SixFeetUnder said:

I doubt Jon ever finds out who his parents are. 

nice troll.

21 minutes ago, SevasTra82 said:

Don't forget, the show also hints that Littlefinger seems to know a few of the secrets as well.

I do agree that everyone believing a random vision from Bran would be a little strange, so *someone* alive will need to expose this.

The obvious choice is Howland Reed, who was present for all of it.  Not to mention that I find it hard to believe the show will continue to ignore him (why wasn't he in Ep. 10 declaring for Jon?).  There is also the chance that Sam finds some sort of official marriage document (or something) at the Citadel, that is if they *did* get secretly wed.  Somehow I don't see the show doing this though..it's too deep of a plot twist for D&D to cook up.  (I can see GRRM doing it, however).

So my money is still on Howland Reed exposing it.  It's the only logical reason for why D&D are keeping him absent from the show.  They'll be some sort of big Bran/Jon/Meera/Howland scene next season, I bet.

Yes where is Howland ?! I hope youre correct as that is why he hasn't shown up in the books yet. I just re watched the ep and noticed they did pan on to that girl with the dark skin for a moment. Is this Wylla ? Will she feature later ? 

[SixFeetUnder]

2 minutes ago, princess_snow said:

nice troll.

Yes where is Howland ?! I hope youre correct as that is why he hasn't shown up in the books yet. I just re watched the ep and noticed they did pan on to that girl with the dark skin for a moment. Is this Wylla ? Will she feature later ? 

Wow, a troll. That's a first. Because I suggest he might not ever find out his true lineage. Maybe there is a reason I've avoided this forum for so long. 

Seems people can't handle a normal conversation. I'm just throwing it out to see what others think. Maybe, you should look at your self before throwing out judgements. 

[princess_snow]

1 minute ago, SixFeetUnder said:

Wow, a troll. That's a first. Because I suggest he might not ever find out his true lineage. Maybe there is a reason I've avoided this forum for so long. 

Seems people can't handle a normal conversation. I'm just throwing it out to see what others think. Maybe, you should look at your self before throwing out judgements. 

ok, my bad. Been a few very odd posts etc lately. Probably should have put a smiley in as I wasn't being vicious it just seemed a bit trolly.  

First of all I'm fairly sure GRRM said Jon would learn of his parentage and also I think its very important that he does as hes always wanted to know who his Mother is and what she knows of him etc. I cant see it not happening I'm my opinion.

[SixFeetUnder]

2 minutes ago, princess_snow said:

ok, my bad. Been a few very odd posts etc lately. Probably should have put a smiley in as I wasn't being vicious it just seemed a bit trolly.  

First of all I'm fairly sure GRRM said Jon would learn of his parentage and also I think its very important that he does as hes always wanted to know who his Mother is and what she knows of him etc. I cant see it not happening I'm my opinion.

Thanks, now that makes a little more sense. If he does find out who his parents are, does the rest of the world need to know? And how will they find out? Doesn't seem like it would be easy to truly prove this to others. 

[princess_snow]

3 minutes ago, SixFeetUnder said:

Thanks, now that makes a little more sense. If he does find out who his parents are, does the rest of the world need to know? And how will they find out? Doesn't seem like it would be easy to truly prove this to others. 

Yeah hard to say really as I'm not too sure at this point Jon is that ambitious in terms of taking the IT. Regarding proof well HOwland Reed and the two women who were in the room know at least. Bran too but that is a little more out there as stated above it would sound a bit odd coming from Bran I meanas far as everyone else who is Bran ? In terms of the new 3ER ? It will be very interesting to watch or read if it ever comes out soon how Jon will learn of this. Personally I think Bran and Howland will play a part in telling him. I'm not sure how that goes down in terms of the other regions. Its late here sorry if this doesn't make much sense I'm rambling.   

[WinterCloak]

I can't see there being a Dany v Jon Dance of Dragons because I can't see Jon caring about the Iron Throne. I see him pursuing a peaceful solution with Dany before/after the War for the Dawn.

[Dragon Seed]

1 hour ago, SixFeetUnder said:

I doubt Jon ever finds out who his parents are. 

I think he'll find out when they place Rickon in the Winterfell crypts. In the show, Jon said he would inter Rickon with Ned and I'm sure the evidence of his parents will be found in or near Lyanna's tomb. But then again, I'm also confident that D&D will make a mess of the whole affair.

[Rippounet]

36 minutes ago, princess_snow said:

First of all I'm fairly sure GRRM said Jon would learn of his parentage

Nope. He said WE would, which is quite different.

At this point, the show made it obvious that Jon Snow's parentge won't have much political importance. He became KitN as a bastard. If he ever sits the IT, his parentage will be but a footnote in the story.

Jon Snow's parentage can only be truly important for three reasons now:
- For him.
- For a possible marriage to Dany.
- For magical purposes (his blood, prophecy... etc)

But if he has the North behind him, he is de facto a ruler. He only needs to be good at diplomacy and war to claim the IT.

[princess_snow]

1 minute ago, Rippounet said:

Nope. He said WE would, which is quite different.

At this point, the show made it obvious that Jon Snow's parentge won't have much political importance. He became KitN as a bastard. If he ever sits the IT, his parentage will be but a footnote in the story.

Jon Snow's parentage can only be truly important for three reasons now:
- For him.
- For a possible marriage to Dany.
- For magical purposes (his blood, prophecy... etc)

But if he has the North behind him, he is de facto a ruler. He only needs to be good at diplomacy and war to claim the IT.

ah ok I thought he said Jon. Yes I agree with you here I do think he will earn the respect of Westeros due to the upcoming battle. I said it was important for him essential actually. Your other points def. I don't see how it wont play out for him to learn who his parents are.  

[Ihaveadognamedclegane]

3 hours ago, Saiyan said:

It's possible that they have married secretly before Jon was born.

He was already married to Elia Martell. How would that have been possbile?

[princess_snow]

23 minutes ago, WinterCloak said:

I can't see there being a Dany v Jon Dance of Dragons because I can't see Jon caring about the Iron Throne. I see him pursuing a peaceful solution with Dany before/after the War for the Dawn.

Yes I agree here.  

[Ihaveadognamedclegane]

3 hours ago, tugela said:

A secret marriage is not a marriage. They had no contracts or wedding registers in those days.

Commoners could just say their vows to each other behind a hedge and everything was cool, because no one cared what they did. Nobility on the other hand would have required witnesses of the appropriate social standing for such a wedding to take place, and if they were of sufficiently high rank, they would also require permission from the king.

They could not just say "Yay! We are in love! Lets get married!". It did not work that way.

A secret marriage was a marriage, ie Tyrion and Tysha.

[Mourneblade]

4 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

Nope. He said WE would, which is quite different.

At this point, the show made it obvious that Jon Snow's parentge won't have much political importance. He became KitN as a bastard. If he ever sits the IT, his parentage will be but a footnote in the story.

Jon Snow's parentage can only be truly important for three reasons now:
- For him.
- For a possible marriage to Dany.
- For magical purposes (his blood, prophecy... etc)

But if he has the North behind him, he is de facto a ruler. He only needs to be good at diplomacy and war to claim the IT.

Most of this is spot on.

 

However there will be consequences based on his legitimacy.  R and L were married plain and simple. The King's Guard would not have been there otherwise. Their duty, once the King died, was the next in succession. If Jon was a bastard, those King's Guard are at Dragonstone protecting Vicerian. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about this.

[Jayc]

1 hour ago, SixFeetUnder said:

I doubt Jon ever finds out who his parents are. 

Exactly

Or if he does find out its not going to matter much

[Ihaveadognamedclegane]

In the books, Robb Stark (KitN) declared that Jon Snow as heir to Winterfell and had all his lords bannerman attach their seal to it. That document is somewhere. That pretty much legitimizes Jon's claim, with or without Bran, Sansa or whomever. 

[DreadedNorwegian]

He is still a bastard yes, but at last one with Stark blood trough Lyanna, and now he is a targaryen bastard too, so he has some claim to both the north and the iron throne, even better claim than cercei at least. 

[blckp]

16 hours ago, WinterCloak said:

I can't see there being a Dany v Jon Dance of Dragons because I can't see Jon caring about the Iron Throne. I see him pursuing a peaceful solution with Dany before/after the War for the Dawn.

i cant see it cause he is bastard and he is so weeeeak compared to Daenerys, and WW coming

[Jdawg Laurence]

This just seems silly that you are even trying to say this.  There is no evidence to say that he is or isn't a bastard, so why are you even trying to make this "fact".  They could have easily been secretly married, which is already mentioned in the fan theory.

And seriously "despite his name not being Jon".  Pretty sure his given name does not change due to his family lineage.  Then you go on to correct yourself later.

Also: " The surname a bastard received appears to be connected to the location the child is raised" is generally true.  Though a different surname can be given, he is still likely to retain his Snow status, as all he knows is the North.

[princess_snow]

7 minutes ago, Jayc said:

Exactly

Or if he does find out its not going to matter much

It will matter to him. And as stated above he has more of a claim to the IT than Cersie. If that is the path he wants to go down.

[Hold_the_door]

So is it certain the final showdown is human v dead or could next season to be Team Targ v Team Lannister and Team Stark v Team Nights King.

The conclusion of this could leading to Bran, Jon & Benjen taking over the army of the dead from the evil Nights King but finding that the great other is a force of good and the antithesis of Rhllor, leading the final season of Team Ice (Stark, the dead, the North) to fight Team Fire (Dany) and thus no grand union of Jon & Dany.