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28 minutes ago, Nami said:

Targaryens don't really have white hair though, it's more of a platinum blonde

Even so blonde hair is recessive as well, so either way dark hair should trump the Targaryen hair.

6 minutes ago, Ice Spider said:

R+L=J

End of story already. Grimm Partnered with D&D because they got this part right, remember? Or has everyone forgotten?

Yeah this is true. Well technically they got the mother right (which was confirmed to be Lyanna in the show) George didn't really ask them who the father was, just the mother. HBO has also released a historic infograph which confirms Rhaegar to be Jon's father. Doesn't mean that part is correct in the books but lets be honest there is way too much evidence supporting it so I think at this point it is universally accepted that Rhaegar is in fact the father in the books as well.

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On July 24, 2016 at 8:34 PM, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

Even so blonde hair is recessive as well, so either way dark hair should trump the Targaryen hair.

Yeah this is true. Well technically they got the mother right (which was confirmed to be Lyanna in the show) George didn't really ask them who the father was, just the mother. HBO has also released a historic infograph which confirms Rhaegar to be Jon's father. Doesn't mean that part is correct in the books but lets be honest there is way too much evidence supporting it so I think at this point it is universally accepted that Rhaegar is in fact the father in the books as well.

You don't know what all was discussed because you weren't there. None of us were.

I cannot imagine they let the conversation end with, "Lyanna", after George's question. Seriously. Have you ever had that conversation with a friend... a show-only friend? One who bugged you enough for the spoiler that you let fly? 

I have.

And there is no dropping the subject after saying, "Lyanna Stark is Jon's mother." when most people still think Ned is his father.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/27/2016 at 5:40 AM, Banner Without Brothers said:

I don't see any denial. How is saying that it's 99% Jon denial. It's actually true. They could have confirmed it outright yet they chose not to. That's fact, if you dispute that perhaps you are the one in denial.

Who could it be? It could be Aegon/young Griff. They've left him out until now but they've brought back a load of stuff this season that was unexpected, stuff that had already happened in the books a long time ago. Again I'm not saying it's likely, I'm saying it's possible. 

Because that's what this thread is about the slim 1% chance that the story actually has a twist left in it. I thought it would be a bit of light relief for those, like me who think that the story of a messiah reclaiming his birth right with his flaming cock is not what we were reading. Anyway not buying the hair excuse or the eyes. Make up your mind bad casting or good casting? Either it's bad casting, why not just get a baby with black hair. Or good casting they got a baby with the right eyes. 

i do believe it is confirmed, like you said 99%. i guess we could see another flashback to young Ned going to Starfell to return the sword, and giving the baby to Ashara to raise, ala Young Griff, and she takes JonCon as protection (or something like that). i just don't know why Ned would then take a different baby to raise as his own, if no one survived knowing there was ever a baby in the first place, except those involved. i was thinking Ned wouold take a baby by Ashara or someone, but as i was typing, i realized there would be no reason for Ned to bring anu baby with him if he have Lyanna's up.

 

so who knows.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 1:59 AM, Banner Without Brothers said:

R+L=J is not confirmed.

Now I'll probably get some hate for this and I have to start by saying that it is about 99% confirmed. But for anyone like me who hates the idea of Jon "Jesus" Targaryan being the magical Chosen royal blood Prophecy fulfiller I want to offer some hope, no matter how small. 

First big one the hair. We know how important hair is in the story. That baby is so blonde I think it would be more accurate to call it silver. If they wanted to 100% confirm Jon they would have had a baby with black hair. Of course babies hair can darken as they grow older but by the time that Ned brought him back to Winterfell? It's definitely a deliberate hole that will have to be filled in with either secret constant hair dye or magic, a glamour perhaps. https://youtu.be/dkvkT5D3fF4?t=280

No name. Why keep the name a secret? Is there really any need. Yes it was nicely done, the cut from the babies eyes into Jon's but we still could have had the name. Perhaps they could have had the "name is...." bit as the cut to Jon was happening. It's another deliberate hole 

Ah screw it, that's all I got if any other like minded optimists have anything else I'd love to hear it. But it's still enough for it to not be confirmed. It's just very, very, very likely that R+L=J.

Valar Morghulis R+L=D 

OMG, Reeeeeeeeally:blink:

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15 minutes ago, MtnLion said:

@Panther2000 There will always be doubters, even when we see the actual details happening onscreen.  "Maybe that wasn't really Rhaegar, but Mance Rayder with a glamor."  "The joke's on him, though, that was Lollys Stokeworth with a glamor."  :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

So True.  ;).   I mean some of the theories are really great.  I just can't see Ned & Halen bouncing back & forth across a country with a new born baby switching babies.   Jon is his Blood, & I am sure that he would want to keep an eye on his nephew to make sure that he is safe.  He would not trust anyone to look after Jon.

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Hell even if there were video evidence of the play by play Rhaegar and Lyanna doing the nasty and following the sperm that won, followed by the 9 month long documentary of Jon growing in Lyanna's womb and being born followed by a DNA Test and paternity test complete with 12 witness signatures and a royal notarization there would still be those who would say it was not confirmed.

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3 hours ago, Slaysman said:

Hell even if there were video evidence of the play by play Rhaegar and Lyanna doing the nasty and following the sperm that won, followed by the 9 month long documentary of Jon growing in Lyanna's womb and being born followed by a DNA Test and paternity test complete with 12 witness signatures and a royal notarization there would still be those who would say it was not confirmed.

So True, they would want a certifications of agencies handling the DNA, and or Film companies for the video's, a notarized affidavit from Ned, Lyanna & Rhaegar, along with a lie detector test, etc..........  

 

I just know when every it is confirmed by GRRM( hopefully in Winds of Winter) they still won't believe it.  They will then say because the show did it this way, GRRM had to change his story & do the same to match it.  That or some other lame excuse to justify why they still don't believe it. 

I can understand why Dani fans want it to be her( Why:wacko:, everyone knows that she is a targ).  Jon haters, just don't want to believe.  There is a reason why Jon is so important in this story.   GRRM could have sent him to the wall & be done with him, like Benjen.  For Jon being a Bastard(coughcoughcough) and still be able to rise above it, and put into positions of power and never asking to be put into these places, It says a lot about him.  Jon doesn't take things for granted.  He did at the start of the series, but (show) tyrion put him on the right path( like he is doing with Dani now).

I do agree that Jon may not be the smartes bulb in the box, but he does things out of the goodness of his heart for others, not for power & money. 

 

Feagon, I see him as Edward IV's youngest son.  1 of the 2 princes locked in the tower.  Years after their disappearance, a boy shows up claiming to be the long lost prince.  Things did not go well for him.   The John C & Feagon, storyline in the book, for me was just more filling in an over stuffed pie already.   Same goes for 80% of the Meereen storyline. Ok Free a City of 2 & keep it moving.  Ok, now I am off the rails here.

 

Lets just say that the haters will be backtracking at WARP speed once GRRM, says Yeah the show got it right, along with 95.9% of the fan base. ;)

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On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 11:54 AM, Slaysman said:

Hell even if there were video evidence of the play by play Rhaegar and Lyanna doing the nasty and following the sperm that won, followed by the 9 month long documentary of Jon growing in Lyanna's womb and being born followed by a DNA Test and paternity test complete with 12 witness signatures and a royal notarization there would still be those who would say it was not confirmed.

I don't need any of that. Just someone in the show to say Jon, Rhaegar is your father

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On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 3:28 PM, Panther2000 said:

So True, they would want a certifications of agencies handling the DNA, and or Film companies for the video's, a notarized affidavit from Ned, Lyanna & Rhaegar, along with a lie detector test, etc..........  

 

I just know when every it is confirmed by GRRM( hopefully in Winds of Winter) they still won't believe it.  They will then say because the show did it this way, GRRM had to change his story & do the same to match it.  That or some other lame excuse to justify why they still don't believe it. 

I can understand why Dani fans want it to be her( Why:wacko:, everyone knows that she is a targ).  Jon haters, just don't want to believe.  There is a reason why Jon is so important in this story.   GRRM could have sent him to the wall & be done with him, like Benjen.  For Jon being a Bastard(coughcoughcough) and still be able to rise above it, and put into positions of power and never asking to be put into these places, It says a lot about him.  Jon doesn't take things for granted.  He did at the start of the series, but (show) tyrion put him on the right path( like he is doing with Dani now).

I do agree that Jon may not be the smartes bulb in the box, but he does things out of the goodness of his heart for others, not for power & money. 

 

Feagon, I see him as Edward IV's youngest son.  1 of the 2 princes locked in the tower.  Years after their disappearance, a boy shows up claiming to be the long lost prince.  Things did not go well for him.   The John C & Feagon, storyline in the book, for me was just more filling in an over stuffed pie already.   Same goes for 80% of the Meereen storyline. Ok Free a City of 2 & keep it moving.  Ok, now I am off the rails here.

 

Lets just say that the haters will be backtracking at WARP speed once GRRM, says Yeah the show got it right, along with 95.9% of the fan base. ;)

GRRM is god in this universe. What he says goes. But until he (or Dave or Dan or the show), comes out with some sort of "Jon, Rhaegar is your father" line. It is not confirmed. At this point it is still just a highly probable theory.

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37 minutes ago, Lord Lyman said:

GRRM is god in this universe. What he says goes. But until he (or Dave or Dan or the show), comes out with some sort of "Jon, Rhaegar is your father" line. It is not confirmed. At this point it is still just a highly probable theory.

D & D all ready have stated it.   The day after episode 10, on HBO Website.  They did a graph with all the players in GOT.  On the graph and they stated for all he hear & see that YES R + L = J.    I think that we will be getting that Back story come this coming season.  I do think that we will see the Tourney @ HH will be shown in one of Bran's visions/Flashback.  

Another conformation is that NED is NOT Jon's father, so the A + N = J is over with.  The show/books has told us over & over again, that Ned will LIE in order to protect his family.  1) TOJ, & the fight there.    2) His bastard Son, 3) to his own wife, 4) To protect, Sansa & Araya( even at the cost of his own life), etc....

 

But, you are right nothing is 100% until GRRM says so, and I do believe that he will be saying so in the next book.

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7 minutes ago, Panther2000 said:

D & D all ready have stated it.   The day after episode 10, on HBO Website.  They did a graph with all the players in GOT.  On the graph and they stated for all he hear & see that YES R + L = J.    I think that we will be getting that Back story come this coming season.  I do think that we will see the Tourney @ HH will be shown in one of Bran's visions/Flashback.  

Another conformation is that NED is NOT Jon's father, so the A + N = J is over with.  The show/books has told us over & over again, that Ned will LIE in order to protect his family.  1) TOJ, & the fight there.    2) His bastard Son, 3) to his own wife, 4) To protect, Sansa & Araya( even at the cost of his own life), etc....

 

But, you are right nothing is 100% until GRRM says so, and I do believe that he will be saying so in the next book.

I have my reservations with the infographic. Do we know it was from Dave and Dan and not some intern? Did someone just see what the wanted to see like many fans did and created it? I know this is a theory that has been decades in the making and people just want it to be done with, but I just don't feel like we are all the way yet.

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On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 11:26 AM, Lord Lyman said:

I have my reservations with the infographic. Do we know it was from Dave and Dan and not some intern? Did someone just see what the wanted to see like many fans did and created it? I know this is a theory that has been decades in the making and people just want it to be done with, but I just don't feel like we are all the way yet.

You are right it is not over with yet because the story/books is on going.  We may have to wait another 7 or 8 years for the end of this book series.  But,  the show will be DONE in 2018, and with only 7 shows for Season 7, and 6 shows for season 8.  They don't have time to muck around and play games.  They have started with season 6 with closing in the circle.   They know that the fans have been waiting for almost 20 years with this theory and it is a shame that GRRM could not confirm this himself.  It is not fan service as some Jon haters may think,  remember the only reason why D & D got this job was because this is the question that GRRM asked them.   He could have asked them anything in the story, but he picked Jon.    And this was way before the show hit a sheet of paper, so D & D pandering to fans or lip service really doesn't hold any water( no you but some Jon Haters think this).   

 D & D  can't keep pushing this very important part of the story back and back.  time has running out it has get to told, and any of twist/plot or misdirection in this late in the game is crazy.  Once again, there is no TIME.  

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On 7/1/2016 at 5:10 AM, Lady Claire said:

I start by saying I believe R+L=J is proved, even if I don't understand why they left out the name if then they confirmed Jon is Rhaegar's son on HBO site. Maybe because in the series they didn't show much about Rhaegar, but in the end everyone knows who he is, so why not revealing the name? Just to have us wondering? Yeah, this is quite possible. 

They had to lie about Jon's death or goodbye cliffhanger, but this doesn't change the fact that they lied: yes Jon was really dead, but producers and actor also said that Kit wasn't going to come back but for the dead body scene. Harington even apologized to the fans for lying!

I hope they will explain how was the relationship of Lyanna and Rhaegar, beginning with "Did they marry or not?". Cause now I read a lot of comments considering Jon the legitimate heir to the throne or at least that he comes before Daenerys and this is clearly impossible if Lyanna and Rhaegar did not marry. I'm not sure if Rhaegar could have more than a wife, does it depend on the faith he followed?

 

as i read this post, something hit me for the first time, don't know why.....

 

what if Lyanna named her son after his father? and we didn't hear it because she said "Rhaegar", and they didn't want to totally give it away, for some odd reason.

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