Frey Pies, Fire and Blood, and Little Birds...oh my!

[Frimmel]

15 minutes ago, White Harbors Wrath said:

When did that explanation happen in the show? A throwaway scene from 3 seasons ago? I bet if you polled show watchers maybe 5% would recall that and maybe another 5% would confuse it with reading it in the book.

Bran telling the story is in the episode after the Red Wedding. Season 3 episode 10 or therabouts. It is also around there (same Ep. or first of season four) Sam shows them how to get through the wall leaving off the part about the magical protections in the wall. 

[White Harbors Wrath]

Yes, and who the hell outside of show-o-logists even remembers that. People I've talked to today were confused as hell. They can have a previously on segment about Dorne...like anyone will ever forget that segment for the rest of their natural lives...but no lead in to that? It didn't need to be there.

It's just another example of D&D trying to insert something in because they like it, regardless of it's actual value to the story. We could have easily cut out Grey Worm/Missandei romances and Tyrion/Grey Worm/Missandei wine drinking sequences over the past couple seasons and got a real northern plot and the pies. If it only takes NO setup except a small scene from three seasons ago for Arya it would have only taken 5 minutes to do it right.

She could have poisoned the Lothar and Black Walder and slit Walders throat. Same effect. No silly little girl serial killer somehow cuting up bodies and making pies in a kitchen with no one noticing story line needed.

[joaozinm]

That pie made me think that D&D wants us bookreaders to explain our show watcher friends the reason why that was awesome.

The Rat Cook history is often repeated inside the books in a way we know the sin the frey commited will be severely punished. The frey pie manderly did was only hinted if i remember and even so, we like the history because the connection.

But on the show, well... it was something Bran said some seasons ago that didn't catch. i watched with 2 friends and no one noticed the pie... I didn't care to explain... but they liked it anyway.

that connection could be more set up, it's something we love from the book and was not well brought. The way it was shown just seemed like Arya is a psychopath...something my friends liked as well.

[Bazil]

Well at least we know why the "serving lady" was eyeing Jaimie.  Now she knows where her next mark is, I bet she follows him back to King's Landing to check some more off her list.

[aryagonnakill#2]

I don't think any of those scenes did their book counterparts justice.  Aryas whole plotline has just been so rushed and this was no different.  She lets all the Lannisters go but then kills an entire castle of Freys?  Pycelle was about to die quickly, then Qyburn gives a speech about him not deserving to die slowly and alone, only to kill him slowly and alone?  And the wildfire plot was just so built up that the only real question was whether the fire spread to the rest of the city or not and when they had Gregor keep Tommen in his room that was answered, the rest was just waiting for what you knew was going to happen to happen.

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

On 27/06/2016 at 2:19 PM, Charles Stuart said:

In that frey death scene when he was sitting alone, I was sure he was going to die but I assumed it would be the brotherhood who would be behind it. Next minute when the face came off and arya revealed herself I was like "Oh sh*t!!"

I liked it though, a good way to wrap up Arya's arc this season as it would have been silly just to show her on a ship coming back from Braavos.

As soon as I heard "They weren't easy to carve.. Especially black walder..." I was like "(Sh*t)²" ARYA!! And then she revealed her face but I was already like 

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

On 27/06/2016 at 8:31 PM, Bazil said:

Well at least we know why the "serving lady" was eyeing Jaimie.  Now she knows where her next mark is, I bet she follows him back to King's Landing to check some more off her list.

So she added Jamie on her list... because he wasn't...

[Aedam Targaryen]

I wasn't a fan of the lack of setup with the pies. I know the rat cook story had been told, but the best part of the Frey pie story from the books was watching Frey's eat Frey's while singing and dancing and laughing, all the while Manderley is hilariously taunting them with subtle comments and song requests. You also have the talk of the missing Frey's throughout the chapters leading up to it. On the show, you didn't even know the others Frey's were missing until you saw a finger in the food.

And much as I love the Frey pie story, I think I would have preferred just slitting his throat without the pie, over the super condensed version that they gave us. 

[NutBurz]

We could write a decent small book with everything people here claim to be an atrocious D&D creation.

I also think some expect GoT to be some sort of teen flick about unbelievable people kicking evil´s ass, when the lowest point in the season was exactly Wolverarya.

The kid is screwed up since season 4. She smiles after killing people and kills one of the guys who was locked up with Jaqen mostly because he said offensive stuff to her. How´s that for a little psychopath? That´s nothing new.

 

And I truly don´t understand the complaint that it lacked setup and when there´s half an entire Bran scene about it. It was done the way it´s supposed to be done, the consequence for an act is estabilished when the act is commited, not when the consequence will come into play for the plot. Doing this latter makes it sound fishy. "Remember that bad guy who did something bad a long time ago? Yeah, we just remembered that this happens to guys like that, wouldn´t it be weird if this happened to him too? Oh, there you go."

[ShadowKitteh]

On June 27, 2016 at 7:36 AM, farm_ecology said:

I think it's more that there isn't the context in the show. Remember, kinslaying and breaking the guest right aren't a big deal in the show Westeros. 

From the perspective of the show, Arya just randomly learns how to bake pies and for the purpose of a particularly evil method of revenge.

You mean the context of Bran's telling of the Rat Cook story to Meera and Hodor before Sam and Gilly come up the well, in S3:10?

Arya knows how to blend poisons and shuck oysters, how do you know she never learned to make a meat pie? Just because you never saw someone teaching her? It isn't even a tiny step for me to believe Arya hung out in a kitchen from time to time, and saw how easy meat pies are to make.

But then I don't hate the show.

[Criston of House Shapper]

I thought the Frey Pies were fine.

The Little Birds felt out of place, but executed well.

Fire and Blood was just... yeah... definitely not the highlight of the episode. They wasted a talented actor on Doran Martell and then did nothing with him and instead misused his speech in an out-of-place, pseudo-dramatic, badly-written clusterfuck of a scene. I mean, the setup was Olenna saying "I want to avenge my house. How do I do that?", and the answer to that is... vengence? Well, yeah, the best solution for vengence is vengence.