Jump to content

Will Jon be known by any other name?


Recommended Posts

Jumping in a bit late, but... I can imagine him going by the moniker "Jon the Bastard". After all if he would start to use it, he takes it away as an insult :) And there were a few rulers in the history of Earth who bore the same moniker and were so badass they did not mind (for  example certain William the Bastard... Well, he changed it to Conqueror down the road, but still ;))

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

So too is Dany. She's half Targaryen and half Blackwood, just like her parents and grandparents. After all she only had two great-grandparents instead of eight.

I think GRRM was incredibly crafty when he did this because it gives just enough overlap of characteristics to each of the three so the reader can't draw easy conclusions. 

Damn George (shakes fist at sky) :thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the end, I think he'll be called Jon Targaryen.  There will be news of a secret marriage between Lyanna and Rhaegar (probably through a Bran vision), legitimizing Jon as a Targaryen. Jon Stark would be predictable, and we know how George likes to avoid that.

A further thought... Once this news of Jon finds its way to Dany, it will be the final straw in her devolution into madness.  The fact that there's a Targaryen out there with a more legitimate claim to the throne, after all she's done and been through to get to that throne, will be enough to send her aboard the crazy train. I don't see it being Jon and Dany teaming up to defeat the White Walkers and then everyone lives happily ever after, instead they will be warring against each other. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/24/2016 at 4:31 PM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

The name for a noble bastard from the Crownlands is Waters. But he'd still be Snow because he was raised in the North, even if it became known he was Rhaegar's bastard. If he's not a bastard at all, then it depends on what he wants to be called, really.

Wasn't he born in Dorne (and if R+L didn't marry), so he would be Jon Sand?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Jon has always considered himself a Stark at heart. Even if/when he finds out who is father is, I'm about 100% sure that'll he'll most likely keep Stark. I'd think that if Lyanna and Rhaegar weren't married he'd still have to keep the bastard name (Snow or Sand). Though he is a King now so it doesn't really matter he could just legitimize himself. If it is find out that Lyanna and Rhaegar were married than he could still take on his mothers house I'd assume without even needing Legitimized because he wouldn't be a bastard in this case, unless that only counts through matrilineal marriages. IDK its all very confusing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since he's king now, it doesn't matter whether he is considered a bastard or what his name is.  Bastardy only matters for purposes of inheritance of titles, lands, and property. There is no higher title than king. And once you're the king you get to make any rules you please.

There can be no question that he's now THE Stark in Winterfell, no matter who his non-Stark parent happens to have been. This is exactly what the North needs now that winter is upon them and the Others stalk the long, cold night: a leader for everyone who's left to rally around.

I seem to recall that Martin once said that even though Jon would eventually learn who his parents were that by the time he does so it won't matter much to anyone else. He'll still be king. Being the ruling Targaryen's only surviving male heir isn't going to change anything one bit as far as Jon's being King in the North is concerned. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 27 giugno 2016 at 0:04 PM, LastManStanding said:

So with the North rallying behind him, Sassy Lady of Bear Island basically calling him a Stark, and the whole R+L thing, do you think Jon will ever be known or recognised as a Stark or Targaryen in the next couple of seasons? Or will he forever be Jon Snow? 

I know you were talking about the surname, but I've heard somewhere people claiming that they read the actress' lips and that Lyanna told Ned (the part we weren't supposed to hear) that the baby's name was Jhaenerys (which might explained why Ned called him 'Jon', somehow similar but not a recognizable Targ name as Jahenerys). No idea whether they're making this up or not.

Assuming for a moment they're right, If GRRM wanted to build a John - King Jahenerys parallelism and make a wise long terrm ruler out of him, then Jon will likely end up on the throne with Davos as his Hand (King Jhanerys had a lowborn as Hand and for a fortnight Aerys as well). In this scenario, I'd say Daenerys and Tyrion would both be dead: Denerys, because she's either Queen or dead I think (she wouldn't be 'the king's wife' and if she was the ruling Queen and Jon just her husband, the Jhaeneys-Jon parallelism wouldn't work) and I can't see Davos being Hand if Tyrion lives.

Not saying this is the most likely scenario, of course (I would find it cheap, honestly...and Jon is honorable but totally unfit to rule).

Tyrion is my fave character by far but I honestly think he's got higher chances of dying than most people think (and I'm used to see my fave dies... in HP both my faves - Dumbledore and Snape - died so that younger, hotter people could live).

Another guess would be a less 'strict' Jahenerys - John parallelism, so that Jon would keep being king in the north (or at least lord of Winterfell) and Davos his advisor.

Again, I'm not saying that's what's going to happen, just speculating because of that 'Jhaenerys' thing, assuming it's correct.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 6:12 PM, Elisabetta Duò said:

I know you were talking about the surname, but I've heard somewhere people claiming that they read the actress' lips and that Lyanna told Ned (the part we weren't supposed to hear) that the baby's name was Jhaenerys (which might explained why Ned called him 'Jon', somehow similar but not a recognizable Targ name as Jahenerys). No idea whether they're making this up or not.

Assuming for a moment they're right, If GRRM wanted to build a John - King Jahenerys parallelism and make a wise long terrm ruler out of him, then Jon will likely end up on the throne with Davos as his Hand (King Jhanerys had a lowborn as Hand and for a fortnight Aerys as well). In this scenario, I'd say Daenerys and Tyrion would both be dead: Denerys, because she's either Queen or dead I think (she wouldn't be 'the king's wife' and if she was the ruling Queen and Jon just her husband, the Jhaeneys-Jon parallelism wouldn't work) and I can't see Davos being Hand if Tyrion lives.

Not saying this is the most likely scenario, of course (I would find it cheap, honestly...and Jon is honorable but totally unfit to rule).

Tyrion is my fave character by far but I honestly think he's got higher chances of dying than most people think (and I'm used to see my fave dies... in HP both my faves - Dumbledore and Snape - died so that younger, hotter people could live).

Another guess would be a less 'strict' Jahenerys - John parallelism, so that Jon would keep being king in the north (or at least lord of Winterfell) and Davos his advisor.

Again, I'm not saying that's what's going to happen, just speculating because of that 'Jhaenerys' thing, assuming it's correct.

Except, that isn't a Valyrian name nor is it a name that has ever come up in the story.. I think the name people are thinking of is Jaehaerys. Besides, Eddard name Jon after Jon Arryn still seems reasonable, especially, when you consider the names of his 3 trueborn sons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/9/2016 at 1:29 PM, Aegonzo The Great said:

"This is Daenerys Stormborn of the House Targaryen, the Unburnt, the First of Her Name, Queen of Meereen, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lady Regnant of the Seven Kingdoms, Protector of the Realm, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons."

"This is Jon The White Wolf of House Stark, the Revenent, the Third(?) of His Name, King In The North, Lord of Winterfell, Leader of the Free Folk and Those Beyond-The-Wall The Sword in the Darkness, The Watcher on the Walls, The Fire that Burns Against the Cold, The Light that Brings the Dawn, The Horn that Wakes the Sleepers, The Shield that Guards the Realms of Men, The King of Winter, and Quite Possibly The Prince Who Was Promised and/or Azor Ahai Reborn, Depending on Which Crackpot Theory You Prescribe To."

You forgot to add "the Ice Dragon" in there someplace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Lord Lyman said:

Except, that isn't a Valyrian name nor is it a name that has ever come up in the story.. I think the name people are thinking of is Jaehaerys. Besides, Eddard name Jon after Jon Arryn still seems reasonable, especially, when you consider the names of his 3 trueborn sons.

Yes I meant Jaehaerys... thanks for correcting me.

I guess I didn't explain myself, I never said meant to imply it was a Valyrian name or a name who came up in the story...as I didn't meant to imply Jon being named jaehaerys by Joanna would be of any significance when it comes to his surname (Snow/Stark/Targaryen), I only meant that GRRM wrote the history of Westeros and what we know of King Jhaenerys is (that's just a wiki summary):

Quote

Jaehaerys brought to the realm a time of great peace and prosperity, aided by his beloved sister-wife, Good Queen Alysanne ... Alysanne was Jaehaerys's great love, while his greatest friend was Septon Barth. Barth worked in the Red Keep's library due to his keen intelligence ....Jaehaerys eventually raised him to be his Hand of the King, an office no commoner had ever held before, nor would hold after. Barth proved more than capable and served as Hand for 40 years.

With Barth's aid, Jaehaerys reformed the realm more than any king who lived before. Jaehaerys created a unified legal code, so that from the North to the Dornish Marches the realm would share common law. Great works were implemented to improve King's Landing ... A vast network of roads was built and became known as the Kingsroad and the king and queen were known to stay at the inn at the crossroads during their journeys, so much so that afterwards it was called the Two Crowns... he even managed to negotiate a truce and bring fifty years of peace between Houses Bracken and Blackwood, two houses whose animosity has lasted for well over two thousand years. Jaehaerys was known for his love of travel ...His grandson Viserys told his own grandchildren a tale of Jaehaerys flying north to defeat a vast host of wildlings, giants and wargs at the WallIt was during Jaehaerys's reign that the Night's Watch castle Deep Lake was built...

 

So if Jon's' true' name (the one Lyanna gave him) was Jaehaerys, then it might - or it might not - be meant to build a parallelism between these two and, if so, it might be significant when it comes to Jon's endgame, which if the parallelism works would be = defeat the WW with the help of wildlings & co (times have changed), marry Arya or Sansa, have Samwell and Davos close (Septon Barth looks like a mix of them both) as Hand and Maester.

I don't think it's the most likely outcome + I wouldn't even like this outcome at all to be honest, if he's alive at the end (50% open), I would see Jon in the North (Night's Watch or Winterfell) but not in King's Landing as King of the 7Kingdoms, as I wouldn't like for Jon to marry one of his 'sisters' and I don't even think Jon would make a good King (he's honorable but he's at loss with politics and without a good Hand making all the political hard work + peace in the realm, he would end up killed in one year...it would be the usual 'the Hand rules, the King takes all the credit'). Still, the fact I wouldn't like it, doesn't allow me to ignore it as one of the many possible outcomes. Of course it's just pure speaculation based on what these people claim they heard...for all we know Lianna told Ned that Rhaegar married her after discovering his previous marriage was invalid for whatever reason, or whatever elese. So just take it for what it is, a simple speculation.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...