Queen of Dragons Marrying King in the North

[Lord Friendzone]

Just now, Lady Sansa's Direwolf said:

The magic is specific. The witch told her she would bear children again, "When the sun rose in the west and set in the east." Unless the magic which brings down the wall spins the earth in reverse, I doubt Dany will bear children. But I could see Jon marrying her for political reasons yet marrying again for love. The world is going to be must less populated after this is over.

She miscarried in ADWD. They never mentioned it and who knows both of them are touched by magic. Daeny especially is representation of it as she is Unburnt. This season the mentioned that she will not bear any living child to anyone when Khal Moro wanted to take her.

[Tywin Tytosson]

13 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Whe people keep saying what Dany would want? 

What Danny (or Jon) personally wants ... does not matter.  If they are King and Queen, they have their realms and subjects to think of and put first.  We see the consequences of rulers doing what they want in this series.  Think of Robb.

[Tywin Tytosson]

Just to mention, in case nobody else did, intra-family marriage was normal for the Targs and the Valyrians.

Aunt and Nephew?  no problem.

Who did Danny's father marry?  His sister?  arent danny's own parents brother and sister?

Marrying a nephew would be no big deal.

[Tywin Tytosson]

13 hours ago, jrod said:

 

So the North, Jon would make some sense.  Renounce being KitN to be her king, let Sansa become Lady of Winterfell, in exchange Dany uses her dragon to kill off the army of the dead north of the wall since only fire can apparently kill the wights.  The Vale, Robyn is doomed with LF around, and no way Tyrion and Varys would allow Dany to marry LF, they know how manipulative he is.  So really Jon does make the most sense of the known Lords in Westeros, so unless the show introduces some other guy.

But my biggest question is yes Dany needs to marry for alliance reasons, but who would marry her knowing they wouldn't really be "king", but husband to the queen?  Dany isn't going through all of this to sit on the sidelines while her new husband rules Westeros.

Why would said Kingship be renounced?  Only reasons would be if Danny demands it (backed by threat of force) for unification purposes or the Kings own nobility does for their own reasons.  Each kingdom would still exist with its own nobility, institutions, structure, laws, and customs intact and separate entities from each other. 

[King Ned Stark]

I still don't see them getting married.  However, the show is running low on time, so maybe they use that angle to get to the same endgame.

Their arcs do parallel each other's, but with the nuance that Dany acts more like Stannis, always throwing around titles and claiming what is her's by rights.  She is bringing an army of former slaves, barbarians, and dragons to take Westeros by force.  She has embraced "fire and blood".

 Conversely, Jon has always been pushed into leadership (LC of Nights Watch, and now KitN).  I think now he will learn that there is no one else.  I don't believe he will kneel, I see Dany kneeling to him if it's not a mutual alliance.

As for the claim, I still see Jon as having the better/best claim.  Putting what pieces we have together, this is the only way I can make sense of the entire debacle that started at Harrenhal:

Rhaegar crowns Lyanna to show respect for her courage and honor, eventually Aerys finds out (someone always talks, I'm thinking Lonmouth) and sends to have her arrested.  Rhaegar saves her (grey girl on a dying horse), and word is put out by royalist that he kidnapped her to keep the north from siding with the Prince.  Eventually they do sleep together/fall in love and he marries her (See Robb Stark).  Now, Rhaegar demands that Aerys acknowledge the marriage but he refuses, causing the mysterious holdout of Rhaegar to return (there is a precedent of a prince taking a second wife, Maegor, interestingly enough his father, Aenys, does not annul the marriage, instead he exiles the Prince to appease the faith.  Aerys did not have this option, as he was desperate).  

It takes Ser Gerold to visit Rhaegar, to get him to return, presumably, by me at least, with a royal decree from Aerys giving Rhaegar what he wants, a legal second marriage and another heir.  It looked an awful lot to me in ep. 10 when Lyanna's dialogue becomes inaudible that her lips say "he saved me".  Which I have believed to be the case since reading TWoIaF.  I'm more convinced now than ever, not only is Jon a Targaryen, but he is legitimate.

Sure this is all conjecture, but all of these theories are, GrrM has simply not given us enough to definitively figure it out.  However, this tends to be in keeping with what we know of each characters behavior, from unreliable POV's, obviously.

At this point, it seems to me that arguing against Jon's importance is starting to come across as just plain wrong.

But, maybe that's just me.

[PirateVergo]

4 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

What incest? They aren’t siblings or parents/children.  Incest is first-degree relations getting it on, not others.

You're joking right? She's his aunt it still is incest, I'm more disgusted by aunt/nephew than I'd be by siblings or cousins, all are disgusting quite obviously but at least we know that Cousin Incest is common in Westeros since Ned's parents were cousins and so were Joanna/Tywin.

[PirateVergo]

4 hours ago, DragonDreamer said:

Marriages between uncles and nieces were not uncommon in Middle Ages which is why Westeros is based n. There is nothing wrong with that in their wild. 

1) That would disgust the fanbase. This is a mainstream show, incest wouldn't be well received at all and we're not talking the controversial decisions D&D made about the plot, it is another matter here.

2) Jon hate kinslayers and already said he feel disgusted by Axell Florent who commited the same sin as Dany : Watch his own brother get burned alive.

And don't even try to tell me Viserys deserved it, Jon would never let a kin of him get burned alive before his eyes and do nothing to prevent it.

2 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

The name of the freaking series is "a song of ice & fire" ffs; Jon Snow  and Daenerys the un-burnt. I mean hello?

You realize that Jon could be both as he's both Stark and Targaryen?

It says "his is the song of ice and fire" so the Prince that was promised doesn't share it as it belong to him and only him.

 

[Lord Friendzone]

5 minutes ago, PirateVergo said:

1) That would disgust the fanbase.

2) Jon hate kinslayers and already said he feel disgusted by Axell Florent who commited the same sin as Dany : Watch his own brother get burned alive.

And don't even try to tell me Viserys deserved it, Jon would never let a kin of him get burned alive before his eyes and do nothing to prevent it.

You realize that Jon could be both as he's both Stark and Targaryen?

It says "his is the song of ice and fire" so the Prince that was promised doesn't share it as it belong to him and only him.

 

It's not story about Jon. He's part of it.

You keep saying kingslaying, People in the Westeros doesn't give a damn and Jon got his own things to sort out. If they ever brought it up, he'll know full extent of this story.

That would disgust the fanbase? Tons of people ship them or at least acknowledge the possibility. We got evidence for it. Let's be honest Jon is destined to band his family member either way. Val is not important and show proved it. If she was, she would've made it to the show. Ending for Jon and others should be same for books and show. We're talking about Jon, Tyrion, Bran, Daeny, Arya and Sansa.

[PirateVergo]

12 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

You keep saying kingslaying, People in the Westeros doesn't give a damn and Jon got his own things to sort out. If they ever brought it up, he'll know full extent of this story.

 

People in Westeros do give shit about it, Jon put Melisandre into exile for what she did to Shireen and he'd have killed her if she hadn't brought him back. Melisandre wasn't even a kinslayer so not as bad as what Dany did.

Knowing the full extent of the story won't change a damn thing, Dany watched Viserys die, his head being melted in front of her eyes and did absolutely nothing to help him out or stop what was happening.

Jon would be disgusted by it as he was disgusted when he learned what Ser Axell Floret had done, Jon wasn't even that angry at the people who actually burned Alester, just at his brother for being a kinslayer who wouldn't do a damn thing for his own bood.

If you think Jon would ever let any of his "siblings" get burned alive you're kidding yourself, no matter what they've done to him or others he wouldn't allow it. He was raised by Ned Stark a man of honor and he's more Stark than he'll ever be Targaryen.

 

12 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

That would disgust the fanbase? Tons of people ship them or at least acknowledge the possibility. We got evidence for it. Let's be honest Jon is destined to band his family member either way. Val is not important and show proved it. If she was, she would've made it to the show. Ending for Jon and others should be same for books and show. We're talking about Jon, Tyrion, Bran, Daeny, Arya and Sansa.

Well first and foremost I definitely do not ship them and have never understood why people do, they've never met, have nothing in common outside of being Targs. I've said before that the only character in ASOIAF Jon has any chemistry with/could end up with is Val but shes been cut from the show. Saying that show proved Val isnt important is delusional, Aegon VI isn't in the show, Arianne isn't in the show, are they not important either? The show is going to have a very different ending from the books. By the way since we're speculating I don't even think Jon will end up with Val in the books, I think he'll end up alone/won't have a romantic relationship.

Also yes that would disgust the fanbase, you think the casual fan who watch Game Of  Thrones would think it's alright that a nephew and an aunt marry or have a romantic relationship? Well I doubt it, I know many people who watch the show casually and felt disgusted by Jaime/Cersei.

Incest is disgusting and no matter what pairing you can come up with I doubt it would satisfy most of the viewerbase.

[GravyFace]

48 minutes ago, PirateVergo said:

1) That would disgust the fanbase. This is a mainstream show, incest wouldn't be well received at all and we're not talking the controversial decisions D&D made about the plot, it is another matter here.

2) Jon hate kinslayers and already said he feel disgusted by Axell Florent who commited the same sin as Dany : Watch his own brother get burned alive.

And don't even try to tell me Viserys deserved it, Jon would never let a kin of him get burned alive before his eyes and do nothing to prevent it.

You realize that Jon could be both as he's both Stark and Targaryen?

It says "his is the song of ice and fire" so the Prince that was promised doesn't share it as it belong to him and only him.

 

There's nothing about Jon really that is "fire". Just because Rhaegar is his father doesn't mean that he has that fire in him.

 

On top of that, D&D have called Jon and Dany "ice and fire". Going all the way back to 2012.

 

And more recently, in the behind the episode videos and interviews this season, they directly mention how they paralleled Jon and Dany. How they wanted to mirror Jon's rebirth in ice, and Dany's rebirth in fire.

[Lord Friendzone]

5 minutes ago, GravyFace said:

There's nothing about Jon really that is "fire". Just because Rhaegar is his father doesn't mean that he has that fire in him.

 

On top of that, D&D have called Jon and Dany "ice and fire". Going all the way back to 2012.

 

And more recently, in the behind the episode videos and interviews this season, they directly mention how they paralleled Jon and Dany. How they wanted to mirror Jon's rebirth in ice, and Dany's rebirth in fire.

Jon is Ice and Fire but doesn't mean the whole title is about him. It could mean other explanations. Multiple meanings but he has Fire from his father's side.

They parallel each other but I expect this to be loveless marriage at first, maybe later on it could develop. But then Jon might not be King for long and marriage wouldn't make sense. He has to be King  or his parentage needs to be revealed.

[permaximum]

17 hours ago, Daniel Tarly said:

Also, the Vale Knights were chanting "The King in the North" So:

If we assume that Jon has the North and the Vale, he has probably 10k troops at least, 15k at most. He might be able to get 20k if he takes more from the Vale.

 

 

 

Jon has 0 soldier from the Vale. Why does everyone suddenly think an entire kingdom of the Vale submitted to Jon and the North because some ranked soldiers in the army of the vale was going along with King in "the North" chants and not King in "the Vale".

The Vale and the North are allies now. Acting Lord of the Vale Baelish and King in the North Snow are allies too as they are the rulers of the allied dominions.

[daemonTheBlack]

Its funny how people are so confidently dismissing this as something that can never happen in the books. Have you lot actually read the books?

This has been prophesied in the books. Search for the "bride of fire" visions. If anything its more likely to happen in the books than the show.

The only way it does not happen in the books now is, due to the massive amount of accurate theorising (thanks to GRRM's 'leisurely' writing speed a lot of fans have had a lot of time to discuss and scrutinize) GRRM now changes his original just to make it "less predictable".

[GeorgeIAF]

Ice and Fire.

[Iron Mother]

21 hours ago, Adam Shanks said:

It's gonna happen! Thoughts?

It is pretty Obvious the Song Of Ice And Fire mixes the two........ that would pretty much seal the deal on this

Would Daenerys get aroused when her actual kin exists?  She wants that Targaryen dynasty back.  Cersei will want to marry Jaime I can see that coming.  He won't want to tho.  I think Cersei was wearing a CASTERLY ROCK ring in episode 10.  Declaring first of her name.  I mean, it's a little much but I no longer see who is going to stop her or WHY they would, why they would even care at this point.  Except Dany's group.  The Iron Men are the ones really really militant about female rule.   In the book that's what started the whole King's Moot idiocy.  TOTALLY just that.  If Theon were alive, none of that would be happening.  But in the book he's not even there standing by Yara/Asha.  The show, they want crowseye for, what exactly?  JUST for being an alternative to a woman pretty much. 

It's such a givven Dany and Jon are the Ice and Fire, especially now.

 

[Destroyer of Nations]

I find it creepy as fuck. Why, oh why, does anyone support a coupling of an aunt and her nephew? By now, at least the Maesters must have realized that maybe, just maybe, the Targaryens fucking each other like its the most natural thing in the world, is the reason why every other generation they either have a mad man or a retard sitting on the throne.

By hooking those two up, I honestly believe they are just remaining in the same vicious cycle. Because if by some odd chance Dany conceives by her nephew, future generations will think its okay to marry within their family, and eventually another Aerys will pop up, causing another war.

I honestly thought for a second they were going the Jon/Sansa way, which is also creepy, and the Tyrion/Dany way, wchich I'd actually be okay with.

Also, it's not because she says she wants to be free for a political marriage, that it'll actually happen. She has the larger army, larger fleet, and... oh wait, three fookin' dragons. In the end she might decide to be with someone she loves.

Jon is not really fit to be a king, neither is Dany to be honest, a queen I mean, but at least she has Tyrion. Jon has no one besides Ser Davos, who does not exactly scream competence to me. Is Jon honourable? A semi-great commander? An all-round swell guy? Yes to all of them. But King? No. Let the guy live out his life in peace, without having to endure the mindnumbing politics of King's Landing.

If Jon was legitimised and Rhaegar and Lyanna were married (I just agged a little), Jon would still have a better claim than Dany, regardless of whether or not Viserys was named the heir. Women can't inherit the throne if there are male Targaryens running around. Though at this point claims no longer really matter, whoever wins the war will be monarch.

[Future Null Infinity]

She coming to Westeros to make a political marriage (it was pretty clear in the show, this is why she put Daario in the friendzone), Jon now is the only powerful man in the whole westeros suitable to danny, but Starks don't do incest, I can't just see Jon accept marrying his aunt, the only workaround to this dilemma is to make Jon the son of Arthur Dayne, which I think the purpose of the focus on Dawn the sword in Lyanna Stark's scene

[Lord Friendzone]

1 minute ago, Future Null Infinity said:

She coming to Westeros to make a political marriage (it was pretty clear in the show, this is why she put Daario in the friendzone), Jon now is the only powerful man in the whole westeros suitable to danny, but Starks don't do incest, I can't just see Jon accept marrying his aunt, the only workaround to this dilemma is to make Jon the son of Arthur Dayne, which I think the purpose of the focus on Dawn the sword in Lyanna Stark's scene

If Jon is Arthur's son then why to hide it and besides Lyanna said if you listen carefully that if Robert find about him, he'll hunt him down. Why would he try to hunt down Dayne? Dawn might be sword Jon will use and Ned might took him with him. Yeah, I know he should've returned him but it's D&D. Or simply it will play a part in Jon's arc.

[Chib]

5 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

She coming to Westeros to make a political marriage (it was pretty clear in the show, this is why she put Daario in the friendzone), Jon now is the only powerful man in the whole westeros suitable to danny, but Starks don't do incest, I can't just see Jon accept marrying his aunt, the only workaround to this dilemma is to make Jon the son of Arthur Dayne, which I think the purpose of the focus on Dawn the sword in Lyanna Stark's scene

 

I doubt that Dany will know of Jon's heritage (and Jon himself too) until the very end of the show. Maybe even in season 8.

[Future Null Infinity]

5 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Lyanna said if you listen carefully that if Robert find about him, he'll hunt him down. Why would he try to hunt down Dayne

I think (it's just an opinion nothing more) that Robert will hunt anyone, it doesn't matter who this person is, for Robert a man kidnapped Lyanna and this man must die, and the baby also must die, for Robert the baby is a product of a rape, a disgrace for Starks and Baratheons, I know that R+L=J is very important to book readers but as a show viewer (it's just an opinion nothing more) Rhaegar or Arthur is no not a big deal for me, they are both dead and gone, sure if this is where the plot is heading, it's just that for me Jon is too honorable to accept his aunt as a wife