sweetsunray Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 23 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said: some might think being "sarky" is cool, some of us merely want to discuss possible outcomes without mocking the people who support other theories...(debate is one thing; mocking is another). A bit like real life politics: very easy to join the "hate establishment" or "hate-anti establisment" as it might be a tadd harder to do it well yourself (rulling) lol This post is not aimed at people who disliked my predictions or even ships only at the ones who tried to ridiculed them LongRider's scene does not mock the people who support certain ships, but shows how the Tyrion-Sansa ship itself is plain ridiculous. The fictional scene says nothing about shippers, but makes a thorough point about the ship - that it is not viable for either Sansa or Tyrion, not personally, not politically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 17 hours ago, Joan Jett said: Yes, I agree that Sansa wants what GRRM wants her to want. That's true of all the characters. But that's like saying 'Meera will transform into a flamingo if GRRM wants her to!'. There is no evidence in the books that it will happen and no real reason why it would happen. Anyway in the books we already know who Sansa wants and that's Sandor. And it just so happens that in the show Sandor is heading North, where Sansa is. Excellent point. GRRM builds up to things, what happened in books 1 - 5 very much matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 13 hours ago, LongRider said: GRRM writes characters that stay consistent throughout the story. Yes, they grow and change, but within the framework he has given them. For Sansa to come to love Tyrion (and a Tryion/Sansa ship is all about Tyrion) would be inconsistent with Sansa's character. That said could Sansa and Tyrion work? Let's imagine a cozy night at home....... Fade into a cold evening by the fire: "Dear, remember when your mother kidnapped me and took me the Eyire?" "Oh yes dear, so glad you had a chance to meet her, before she was killed by your fathers plotting and violation of guest rights." "Yes, yes, darling, but thanks to that I was able to meet your vivacious Aunt Lysa. The accommodations at the Eyrie I will never forget, what stunning views from the sky cell she gave me." "Oh yes my darling, the views can be beautiful in summer. Did you meet my cousin Sweet Robin as well?" "Did I! He was so excited to have me get a 'birds eye' view of the place, but drat. It just didn't happen." She sows another stitch, "Oh yes, love. Remember our wedding? How I tried to run away, cried and refused to kneel for you? Good times, good times." "Yes, yes sweets, who could forget that, one of the defining moments of my life! But your declaration of never wanting to lie with me as husband and wife, which hasn't changed, well, perhaps one day?" "Oh dear no, why would I go back on my word to you? I'm your good wife. Oh, and darling, remember how your fathers vassals cut off my brothers head and put his dire wolf's head on the body, such creativity! Too bad the BWB and my zombie mother hanged them all. Tragedy really." "Well, well sweets, they were such good servants, it was too bad. I did enjoy killing my father tho." "Please husband! Don't say that aloud! As it is I can't be seen in good society because my husband is a kinslayer! That fact is such an embarrassment to me, but you're my husband, so I just smile and solider on through!" "But wait darling, is that as bad as when you betrayed me at my nephew's wedding and left me holding the 'you killed Joffery bag?' Cersei nearly had my head for that." "Yes, well, your older brother, who wasn't killed in violation of guest right, did you a good turn there when he let you escape." "Oh, ah well, gee, um......" "..." "Oh, and husband, sorry about my younger brothers showing up alive after all and reclaiming and rebuilding WF, best laid plans and all. Alas, they won't see me because I'm married into the family that killed their father, mother and eldest brother, and forced me to marry you. Such bad sports they are!" "..." "..." "Well I'm off to the local winesink for some sour red, all we can afford these days." "Very well, have fun with your whores tonight." "Bye." "Bye." *********************************************** Nope, too much baggage. Kinda tough to live with the man whose family killed yours and is a kinslayer to boot. It would be inconsistent for Sansa to fall in love with a man who forced was on her (he also agreed to marriage by the way) by the family that killed hers. Let me repeat that, Tyrion Lannister is a member of the family that killed Sansa's beloved mother, father and older brother. A member of the family who kept her as hostage, let her be tortured and humiliated by her fiance, and forced her to marry the least desirable and most physically repulsive man in the family to steal her claim to Winterfell. And Tyrion has gotten worse since she left KL. He's a kinslayer now, and in the show, and if it happens in the book as we expect, he will align himself with Dany which means he will be a traitor to the realm of Westeros. Not to mention, Sansa is from House Stark, and is the daughter of King Robert's most important bannerman. Dany, who will be Tyrion's liege, doesn't have warm fuzzy feelings for Robert, his rebellion or his bannermen. So the negatives just keep piling up and there is nothing, nothing, that Tryion can bring into a marriage for Sansa. Nothing. Excellent. Satire as a literary device, pointing out the flaws in the cultural attitudes in book and show verse, that a woman's own desires don't matter, and the shortcomings of political marriage, particularly a forcible one, this helps to point out the author's messages in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 14 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said: And it just so happens that in the show Sandor is heading North, where Sansa is. This is so true. It was obvious they are moving Sandor to where Sansa is because how and why would the BWB just randomly know about the WW's in the show? No one south of Castle Black knows. In the books Sandor will be moving to where Sansa is via another totally different set up, but the show does need to streamline, so they flipped the book story with the BWB in this case. Anyway, I can see how the show has set up a quick arrival of the Hound to either Winterfell or somewhere north where Sansa is just as she is trying to escape Baelish for good. The Hound will become the knight she always wanted and what he dreamed knights would be when he was a little kid. This is better than that gawd awful Missy-Worm invention that added nothing to the plot progression or main character development. Yes... I think that's been pretty clearly indicated. They are adapting the book story. And I think it will be a high point on the show, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 1 hour ago, sweetsunray said: LongRider's scene does not mock the people who support certain ships, but shows how the Tyrion-Sansa ship itself is plain ridiculous. The fictional scene says nothing about shippers, but makes a thorough point about the ship - that it is not viable for either Sansa or Tyrion, not personally, not politically. She's talking about the story. And let's also remember, Sansa called the marriage a "mockery of a marrage"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 14 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: 1 hour ago, sweetsunray said: LongRider's scene does not mock the people who support certain ships, but shows how the Tyrion-Sansa ship itself is plain ridiculous. The fictional scene says nothing about shippers, but makes a thorough point about the ship - that it is not viable for either Sansa or Tyrion, not personally, not politically. She's talking about the story. And let's also remember, Sansa called the marriage a "mockery of a marrage"... The book gives us plenty to go on, no need to make shit up and it can't be said enough 'The Lannisters killed the Starks', you know Sansa's family. Which is really what my post was about, why would Sansa love a person from the family that murdered hers? Why? She doesn't, hasn't and never will. Sansa's true love interest is Sandor and it's mutual. So in the show he's heading North, looking for his little bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Morgana Lannister said: some might think being "sarky" is cool, some of us merely want to discuss possible outcomes without mocking the people who support other theories...(debate is one thing; mocking is another). A bit like real life politics: very easy to join the "hate establishment" or "hate-anti establisment" as it might be a tadd harder to do it well yourself (rulling) lol This post is not aimed at people who disliked my predictions or even ships only at the ones who tried to ridiculed them It's true that all of those things listed in that post happened. Right? Tyrion did those things and Sansa did those things. What makes it funny is how it is laid out. I was complimenting a poster on a creative way to put it together. They never complained to me that I was being snarky towards them. Maybe they told you and you felt the need to tell me? I don't know but it wasn't meant as snark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 On 7/4/2016 at 0:03 PM, LongRider said: The book gives us plenty to go on, no need to make shit up and it can't be said enough 'The Lannisters killed the Starks', you know Sansa's family. Which is really what my post was about, why would Sansa love a person from the family that murdered hers? Why? She doesn't, hasn't and never will. Sansa's true love interest is Sandor and it's mutual. So in the show he's heading North, looking for his little bird. Yep. Sansa's desires actually matter, and they are focused on Sandor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Le Cygne said: She's talking about the story. And let's also remember, Sansa called the marriage a "mockery of a marrage"... It is a mockery of a marriage. Heck, even Tyrion thinks of it that way, without using those exact words: from the dragging Sansa to the altar under threat by two KG who beat her up in the court room, the ceremony, the feast, to the peas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Just one more thing. I have been thinking on some other comments posted that say Sansa needs Tyrion to bring down Littlefinger. I object to this as well. The main purpose of Sansa's arc, like Jon and Arya (Rickon?), is to be put into a situation that trains them for their own future. They need to survive these tests, learn from them and come out the otherside intelligent and independent from negative outside forces (but the pack survives). Sansa, book and tv, should be able to "kill off" LF on her own. Maybe not by wielding the blade herself, she learned from Petyr to never weild the blade yourself, but to outwit LF and bring him down using his own methods against him. Isn't that what the rape of the show was to do, empower her. And in the Vale Sansa is learning by other means. Littlefinger is Sansa's monster to slay. And in both book and show, again, the Hound is being geographically moved closer to Sansa. Tyrion isn't. If the two meet again, it won't be pleasant. Neither one has a reason to love, like or trust the other. And by then, so much of what could keep them together politically will have been decimated anyway, so there's no point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
permaximum Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Whatever. I hope we won't see Littlefinger - Sansa romance in the next season. I'm OK with Sansa and Tyrion but that simply won't happen. As a side note, I wanted Baelish and Margaery together. They could rule the Westeros and Essos combined and live happily ever after :D But now, that's off the table as well. Still, based on this scene it's probable they shared a few things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymaface Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 It would be nice to see them reunite and become proper friends. They could both use that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Under the sea, where the mermen feast, you’ll see the Tyrion/Sansa ship, because Sansa’s marriage to Tyrion was like a bad trip. I know, I know, oh, oh, oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstruck Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Tyrion and Sansa are NOT married in the show. There married was annulled due to the fact that it was unconsummated. That is why she was able to to marry Ramsay. Sansa was forced to marry Tyrion against her will. She was 14......SHE WAS 14. This was not romantic in any sense of the word. It was white slavery basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Moonstruck said: Tyrion and Sansa are NOT married in the show. There married was annulled due to the fact that it was unconsummated. That is why she was able to to marry Ramsay. Sansa was forced to marry Tyrion against her will. She was 14......SHE WAS 14. This was not romantic in any sense of the word. It was white slavery basically. Moonstruck: Correct. On the show, Tyrion and Sansa are not married. I posted a link to the part in the show where Littlefinger explains this to Roose. But weirdly the issue of Sansa being a virgin or not has no consequence??? https://youtu.be/-dcs4lnXebY?t=76 In general for marriage: In the books we learn that a High Septon can do the annulling at the request of one of the couple, even if they are not there. Here George talks about how Sansa herself would have to request the annulment... and we know what else that infers if it is Sansa doing the requesting. Kind of a fun, quick little read. And makes you think why would George plant that information in the books or interview??? So yeah, politically it would make ZERO sense to have Sansa and Tyrion "stay" married. By the time Sansa or tv Sansa and Tyrion have a chance to meet, there will be NO political reason alive that would require such a union. The political side is off the table. To think otherwise is being ignorant to the entire picture. On their personal levels, well, they have nothing in common except death or incarceration in each others family. Aah, fun times Neither has thought fondly of the other. Tyrion not beating Sansa does not make him a good man. His much broader actions speak to that. Sansa not lying back and thinking of Westeros because she is a young bride, even by book standards, does not mean she is a bad wife. She did not want to be there. In general: And since the original post of this thread asks this, "Is anyone excited about the fact that Tyrion and Sansa may potentially be reunited???, it is asking for opinions, NOT agree with me or leave me alone. It does not specify if that is a romantic relationship or a political one. Of course, when you answer one way or the other, it is expected that you back your reasoning up because, let's face it, answers that just say, "because", really aren't answers. All conversations drift and sidebar a little when you are trying to get the entire picture in there, not just one piece of personal fan-fiction. There are many reasons and connections within the ASOIAF world that have to be included in other character arcs. You simply cannot talk about one part and not have it affect other areas of the story. If you remove one part of the web, the entire structure falls to shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmarni Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 I am surprised, to say the least, that there are those on this thread who want to run other posters down, call them obsessive, unreasonable and childish; then tell them to stop posting. That's not friendly, not polite and does not help keep an open discourse. Being told to NOT post anywhere on this forum IS, IN AND OF ITSELF, completely unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 As far as the OP, I'm excited for almost nothing to do with show Sansa, because the show hasn't put forth a particularly consistent or convincing character (although some of her personalities are fun in isolation). Given the completely lack of any sort of serious personal relationship (of any sort, let alone romantic) between Tyrion and Sansa, I don't see why anyone would be excited for a possible reunion? Or is this amazing relationship supposed to have happened off screen? Wouldn't be the first time I've seen that excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 On 7/4/2016 at 3:54 PM, sweetsunray said: LongRider's scene does not mock the people who support certain ships, but shows how the Tyrion-Sansa ship itself is plain ridiculous. The fictional scene says nothing about shippers, but makes a thorough point about the ship - that it is not viable for either Sansa or Tyrion, not personally, not politically. Fair enough, okay btw, I was without internet connection yesterday hence my late reply. Mayhaps I acted "super sensitive" because in my experience this pairing always brings about controversy. As for any pairing being ridiculous, well, it would depend on how it is written and that alone... Let's take Dany/Khal Drogo; you cannot get a bigger cultural divide there; people shagging up the arse in plain view for her wedding lol his culture... and yet... George wrote them convincingly in love by the time he died... Being devil's advocate, take, randomly any two, say Olenna Redwyne and Podrick Payne; ridiculous yeah (will it happen? probably no because it does not serve a plot) possiible, doable??? by a skilled writer yes (IMHO); okay say she is an old crone and he is in the books kind and inexperienced (unlike show), I would take a wagger to write a one shot and make it plausible (if not full blown sex, at least affection of political marriage or something if he had the right standing...) to me no pairing is ridiculous. It is only so if written unconvincingly. Basically, the point I am making is that no pairing is ridiculous within this story if written convincingly... I have no means to know what George would do in the end and I am sure whatever he decides it will be potentially convincing but yeah my wagger still on these too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rory Snow Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Seems odd that aside from her family, the two men that treated Sansa the best were the Imp and the Hound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 1 minute ago, Rory Snow said: Seems odd that aside from her family, the two men that treated Sansa the best were the Imp and the Hound. and I think George wants us to pin for one or the other; has planted clues both ways, although I have to say having to look at symbolism all the time distracts me from the enjoyment of the books, but hey, yes, neither are perfect and she is growing darker and darker (mainly in the show) but what the show has done with little direction will be okay, different, but important still. I agree that both are potentials. Okay, leaning towards the Imp because of a purely personal preference but Hound could work too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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