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Tyrion + Sansa potentially Reunite

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2 hours ago, brightflame princess said:

I didn't say you were mean, just that you could be nicer.

It's funny because you think I'm forcing my own opinion to fit with the video, but that wasn't my opinion to start with. I don't care if sansa and tyrion meet up again. Tyrion can do much better. So no, I formed that opinion when I read the post and watched the video.

Why is it funny that I think that when this is your statement?

Quote

You.didn't see his little nod? It's so obvious what he is thinking when.Sophie says that! 

It is not obvious in the slightest, you are either projecting your own thoughts, or your thoughts are being influenced by other posters who are projecting.

...and nice is an antonym of mean, if you're telling me to be nicer, your implying that I'm being mean. 

Edited by Darkstream

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6 hours ago, brightflame princess said:

Tyrion can do much better.

Well it's a good thing this will never happen because your right, I'm not sure how the stunted legged, junting foreheaded, no nosed, demon monkey, with a bulbous purple cock that has been shoved inside every whore from Casterly Rock to Volantis, wanted for kin slaying and regicide, would ever be able to manage being stuck with the beautiful lady of house Stark. My gods, hasn't Tyrion suffered enough? GRRM would have to be a sadist to inflict that kind of misery on the poor sap.

Edited by Darkstream

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7 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

Yes, yes, I’m okay. You’re okay. Everyone is Okay. Nobody’s opinions or actions should every be criticized, or subjected to scrutiny, because golly that’s “bashing” or somebody’s feelings might get hurt or something.

Saying that a public figure’s statements, like Ms. Turner, are off limits is like saying it’s inappropriate to criticize some well known politician's public statements or pronouncements because you might “bash” them. Of course, that is just preposterous.

I have nothing against Ms. Turner and I really know little about her. I’m sure she is a fine young woman. That said, some of her comments about GOT, ASOIAF, or the character of Sansa Stark does at times cause me to raise my eyebrow. I am just not quite confident that she really knows what she is talking about or is any kind of persuasive authority on the character of Sansa Stark.

If Ms. Turner’s statements are going to be used as “evidence” regarding Sansa Stark, then surely it is appropriate to delve into her prior statements or actions to assess her general level credibility on that matter. And surely it’s appropriate to look at the surrounding context of which those statements were made. And surely it’s appropriate to inquire whether particular statements she has made have been consistent over time.

It’s like you want to submit a piece of evidence to make your case and then when somebody seeks to question it, the response is “you can’t do that! That’s bashing! You can’t touch my evidence here!”. What a bunch of horseshit.

I do not get what you mean, your comment must be directed at someone else.

i did not even read those interviews but I know what I see on screen. And Turner has so very much improved as actress, by now.

A politician's job is to make statements, her or his statements and pronouncements are what we judge them by. And getting "bashed" for them is part of a democratic process, criticizing is in turn the job of opposition politicians. An actor's job though is to act. Do I care about Brad Pitt's twenty children or Sophie Turner's interviews? I care about the acting I see on screen or on stage.

Comparing a politician's job in public to an actor's is, say, taking everything around celebrities a little too seriously. Not my thing but enjoy.

 

Edited by Woman of War

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5 minutes ago, Woman of War said:

I do not get what you mean, your comment must be directed at someone else.

LOL. I think you do.

 

5 minutes ago, Woman of War said:

A politician's job is to make statements, her or his statements and pronouncements are what we judge them by. An actor's job is to act. Do I care about Brad Pitt's twenty children or Sophie Turner's interviews? I care about the acting I see on screen or on stage.

The point is that if Ms. Turner's statements are going to be used as proof of an assertion, then surely those statements are subject to scrutiny.

In fact, any statement she makes regarding Sansa Stark or GOT is fair game for scutiny.

Edited by OldGimletEye

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Old Gimlet, you are definitely talking to someone that is not me. You might want to look up if I ever mentioned any interview. But then you know what? I do not care. Go on but I won't. 

Edited by Woman of War

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18 minutes ago, Woman of War said:

I do not get what you mean, your comment must be directed at someone else.

i did not even read those interviews but I know what I see on screen. And Turner has so very much improved as actress, by now.

A politician's job is to make statements, her or his statements and pronouncements are what we judge them by. And getting "bashed" for them is part of a democratic process, criticizing is in turn the job of opposition politicians. An actor's job though is to act. Do I care about Brad Pitt's twenty children or Sophie Turner's interviews? I care about the acting I see on screen or on stage.

Comparing a politician's job in public to an actor's is, say, taking everything around celebrities a little too seriously. Not my thing but enjoy.

 

But nobody is talking about Sophie's private life or the clothes she wears or who she dates....but what her interpretation is of the character she plays...

I tend to find Sophie's understanding of Sansa Stark is quite limited, but I can't see how her interpretation of the character she plays isn't relevant.

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12 hours ago, Woman of War said:

I see no reason to bash Sophie Turner (apart from seeing no reason to bash anyone)

Might I inquire as to who this comment was directed at, or why you felt it was necessary?

Edited by Darkstream

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3 hours ago, Woman of War said:

A politician's job is to make statements, her or his statements and pronouncements are what we judge them by. And getting "bashed" for them is part of a democratic process, criticizing is in turn the job of opposition politicians. An actor's job though is to act. Do I care about Brad Pitt's twenty children or Sophie Turner's interviews? I care about the acting I see on screen or on stage.

Comparing a politician's job in public to an actor's is, say, taking everything around celebrities a little too seriously. Not my thing but enjoy.

 

It's actually a part of Sophie's job to do these interviews and promotional appearances. She probably gets paid more to do one fifteen minute interview than I make in a week. If she cannot be bothered to read the books, or at least do a little research so that she doesn't come off as being completely clueless about the very character that she is being handsomely paid to portray, then any criticism directed towards her is warranted. If I was as unknowledgeable about my job as she seems to be, I wouldn't be so lucky as to be just criticized online over it, I would be fired.

 

...Oh, and I see no reason to bash Kermit the Frog (apart from seeing no reason to bash anyone)

Edited by Darkstream

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14 hours ago, Woman of War said:

The showmakers for sure know more than we do.

Oy!...and talk about bashing people, none of us deserve to be insulted in this viscous of a manner.

Edited by Darkstream

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On 7/4/2016 at 5:06 PM, Harakiri said:

It's true that all of those things listed in that post happened. Right? Tyrion did those things and Sansa did those things.  What makes it funny is how it is laid out. I was complimenting a poster on a creative way to put it together. They never complained to me that I was being snarky towards them. Maybe they told you and you felt the need to tell me? I don't know but it wasn't meant as snark :dunno:

lol I haven't visited this thread in months, and first of all, not sure how I got all wound up since it is a long time back but I didn't mean to be antagonistic to you at all.  I guess I have had pretty bad experiences when defending certain characters and I was possibly a little defensive.  I hope you can accept my apologies.

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On 7/4/2016 at 5:03 PM, Nasty LongRider said:

The book gives us plenty to go on, no need to make shit up and it can't be said enough 'The Lannisters killed the Starks', you know Sansa's family.  Which is really what my post was about, why would Sansa love a person from the family that murdered hers?  Why?  She doesn't, hasn't and never will.

Sansa's true love interest is Sandor and it's mutual.  So in the show he's heading North, looking for his little bird.

To me the whole point of however the ending might turn out to be is to "build bridges."  So far in the books Dany still seems a little hell bent on calling people "usurpers" (although in theoretical politics they were in fact "usurpers" but not any more than her ancestor when he conquered lol) and so on.... The series would not have an ending unless a compromise is reached.  Granted, doesn't have to involve Tyrion/Sansa... but at least some marriages bringing peace amongst warring houses.  Not that I even think it will happen but, for argument sake, a Baratheon/Targ marriage could aid a lot... although kind of almost out of candidates but that is the way my mind is working on this.  Refusing to give someone a chance, either partly, because of what his/her family did to yours perpetuates the conflict and heck the WWs are there for a reason IMHO (to make them forget how important those feuds were in view of a much stronger and deadly common enemy).  My two cents.  Although, it has been pointed out the story is very "character centric" (yes we get Sandor and Tyrion and LF's sad stories et al) you cannot write a political story without "the Realm" being the main and central character, I don't think...

There are tons of reasons why Sansa might always reject Tyrion but my point is still it would be a very useful political marriage.  Also, George seems to keep his world medieval like by showing to us how political marriages can work, i.e. Ned/Cat and how love alone marriages can have terrible consequences (Robb/Jeyne -Talysha in show) and book and show also make Dany marry politically (although not with the same ending but full democracy and "marry for just love or lust" won't be the trend.  I certainly predict a huge political change by the end but if George turned Planetos into a modern democracy that would be worse that Arya's recovery from her wounds in the show IMHO....

 

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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On 7/5/2016 at 8:16 PM, Harakiri said:

Thanks for the reply. I only have a minute (I'm on break at work) and just want to touch a few points here.

IF Sansa and Tyrion were to come face to face, then it would be unpleasant. It would not be a re-union, as the OP asks, because there was barely a union to begin with. I'm sure, as you somewhat mentioned, that it would be awkward at best. And then they would go their separate ways.

And, yes, ASOIAF boos are, indeed, in fact, character driven. GRRM has said so and he used his proof is one of the reasons why the outline is so different from today's books. The characters changed beyond what he had planned for them. The characters and their decisions dictated the story.

GoT the tv show, is plot driven. My quote by Cogman above explains that. Cogman says, basically, get X to X because that is where they want them. That is the definition of plot driven. Character development and consistency takes a back seat.

Here is the definition of character driven stories:

This is a more internal story, where we spend time reflecting with the characters and discover who they are as people. The nature of the characters and the decisions they make shape the plot and the final outcome of the story.

Character-driven plots are usually considered ‘literary fiction’ because their structures (especially their endings) are unpredictable and their characters are more in-depth. These books can seem more contemporary than plot-driven novels because they're not following a tried-and-tested traditional story structure.

 

And with Jon and Ygritte. Jon is very often most paralleled with Dany and her adventures. Each are given similar circumstances and it is how each character reacts and decides what to do next that develops the character and their arc. Both of them are being tested with a peach. And Dany and Jon have 100 more parallels beyond just love.

Ygritte was for duty, Val is for love.

Drogo was for duty, ? (Daario) is for love.

Tyrion was for duty, ? (Sandor) is for love.

Fair point if they believe that is what they are doing and I agree characterization is paramount and why we love books/show but hell the Realm is a main character too, the "main character".  If the realm turns less important than characters and romance I would certainly "bend the knee" then but not before.  lol it's hard to tell here on the net so I will just say not being sarcastic or patronizing, at least not on purpose. :)

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On 7/8/2016 at 0:09 AM, Darkstream said:

It's actually a part of Sophie's job to do these interviews and promotional appearances. She probably gets paid more to do one fifteen minute interview than I make in a week. If she cannot be bothered to read the books, or at least do a little research so that she doesn't come off as being completely clueless about the very character that she is being handsomely paid to portray, then any criticism directed towards her is warranted. If I was as unknowledgeable about my job as she seems to be, I wouldn't be so lucky as to be just criticized online over it, I would be fired.

 

...Oh, and I see no reason to bash Kermit the Frog (apart from seeing no reason to bash anyone)

In all fairness, that is the nature of being in a field like acting... Should she read the books? not sure if she does or doesn't but that is not her obligation.  When asked about her character, she can give her opinion based on her scripts, now you read the books I read the books too.. we don't have to take her word as gospel, it is just her interpretation and she owes us nothing other than her performance.  George is the one to answer but of course he doesn't have to...what she gets paid against what we do is just like complaining I might be highly trained as a lawyer and earning less than the President of the United States lol

BTW, do Sophie's jobs or any of the other actors come with a clause that says that they have to be authorities on their book counterparts...  No such contract... up to them to check it up or not and it is not just "Oh, the illiterate idiots; some prefer not to know to act more convincingly..." up to them "me thinks"

lol re-reading my post I sounded a bit anti-George, hell, not in any way!  It's his baby (or beast as it may be) and no, he doesn't owe us anything either... other than perhaps for his own self-appreciation finishing it so that we can love him or bash him as it might be lol :)

 

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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On 7/5/2016 at 2:07 AM, Harakiri said:

Moonstruck: Correct. On the show, Tyrion and Sansa are not married. I posted a link to the part in the show where Littlefinger explains this to Roose. But weirdly the issue of Sansa being a virgin or not has no consequence???

https://youtu.be/-dcs4lnXebY?t=76

In general for marriage: In the books we learn that a High Septon can do the annulling at the request of one of the couple, even if they are not there. Here George talks about how Sansa herself would have to request the annulment... and we know what else that infers if it is Sansa doing the requesting. Kind of a fun, quick little read. And makes you think why would George plant that information in the books or interview???

So yeah, politically it would make ZERO sense to have Sansa and Tyrion "stay" married. By the time Sansa or tv Sansa and Tyrion have a chance to meet, there will be NO political reason alive that would require such a union. The political side is off the table. To think otherwise is being ignorant to the entire picture.

On their personal levels, well, they have nothing in common except death or incarceration in each others family. Aah, fun times :cheers: Neither has thought fondly of the other. Tyrion not beating Sansa does not make him a good man. His much broader actions speak to that. Sansa not lying back and thinking of Westeros because she is a young bride, even by book standards, does not mean she is a bad wife. She did not want to be there.

In general:
And since the original post of this thread asks this, "Is anyone excited about the fact that Tyrion and Sansa may potentially be reunited???, it is asking for opinions, NOT agree with me or leave me alone. It does not specify if that is a romantic relationship or a political one. Of course, when you answer one way or the other, it is expected that you back your reasoning up because, let's face it, answers that just say, "because", really aren't answers.

All conversations drift and sidebar a little when you are trying to get the entire picture in there, not just one piece of personal fan-fiction. There are many reasons and connections within the ASOIAF world that have to be included in other character arcs. You simply cannot talk about one part and not have it affect other areas of the story. If you remove one part of the web, the entire structure falls to shit.

If you think WF and Casterly add nothing to the political plot, I would welcome an explanation lol  Granted, Jon has the north for now but I think his destiny is much larger.   Okay, evil me but I wanted Rickon dead and "out of their way" for no other reason than, unlike Bran, say, we know nothing about him, can't warm up to him for the very reason that he is an "absent character" throughout.  I can even feel where LF is coming from but Rickon, nope.  Never there... didn't get the chance as a reader to root for him... so "shame on me, loved the fact it was killed in the show."

 

 

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On 7/6/2016 at 11:22 PM, Princess of Ice and Fire said:

If I was writing a character driven story most definitely Sansa would have a great appreciation for Tyrion's abilities.  Mature Sansa would not be susceptible to the Hound and be much more likely to agree to a dynastic marriage to someone whose charater she could admire. 

Arya and the Hound could work. I hope she doesn't get married off to SweetRobin.

Good point actually; the gods old and new only know what George is doing with this but to my mind, and it is no secret that I relate to Tyrion a lot (good and bad- although hey never murdered anyone yet...) Arya is more suited for Sandor; they are both warriors, not that they have to be but Sansa was never good or interested in that sort of thing, Arya was... being infatuated with the "dangerous" or perceived as such is just the biggest cliche in well teenage anything... "the unkiss" to me is just that but hey might be wrong lol but the amount of posh friends I had who fancied a bit of rough lol...Only the ending will tell though... and in the meantime, thank you for keeping it polite...

By the way, Princess of Ice and Fire, i hope you realise I used your post but wasn't against your comments in any way :)

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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I would be excited to see Tyrion and Sansa meet again.  As far as I understand laws (both modern and medieval) they would still be married. The marriage was never anulled and now Ramsay is dead (at least on tv).

 I don't see Sansa and Tyrion as a love match, I don't think love is possible between them, but I wonder if they might work on the same side... perhaps defeating the White Walkers.  Maybe Sansa (or Jon) would be the one(s) to convince Danaerys to bring her dragons North. Tyrion would believe them, unlike Cersei who would be disinclined to believe anyone.

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On 2/5/2017 at 3:56 AM, ValrianSunni said:

I would be excited to see Tyrion and Sansa meet again.  As far as I understand laws (both modern and medieval) they would still be married. The marriage was never anulled and now Ramsay is dead (at least on tv).

 I don't see Sansa and Tyrion as a love match, I don't think love is possible between them, but I wonder if they might work on the same side... perhaps defeating the White Walkers.  Maybe Sansa (or Jon) would be the one(s) to convince Danaerys to bring her dragons North. Tyrion would believe them, unlike Cersei who would be disinclined to believe anyone.

It's a good possibility that Sansa and Tyrion reunited despite being a Lannister. Yes, she does hate the Lannisters but Tyrion's different. She will most likely to remember his kind treatment to her.

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On 7/6/2016 at 11:22 PM, Princess of Ice and Fire said:

If I was writing a character driven story most definitely Sansa would have a great appreciation for Tyrion's abilities.  Mature Sansa would not be susceptible to the Hound and be much more likely to agree to a dynastic marriage to someone whose charater she could admire. 

Arya and the Hound could work. I hope she doesn't get married off to SweetRobin.

I have to agree here; despite that Sansa, "typical good, high born girl" has a teen sort of what I consider infatuation but others think is love thing going on with Sandor (referring to the "unkiss" in the books).  I have encountered a lot of young girls of say, in our world wealthy and upper middle class backgrounds going for the "revel" what is perceived as dangerous and exiting but it is normally a passing phase, although not always.  I am more inclined to think that even if, say, Sansa was to end up with Willas (who is another heir of another important house) that would be more plausible in that world than Sandor.  I don't think it is just the difference in status but the difference in personalities.  Also I will get to Arya in a moment.  Tyrion is cunning, Sansa in both books and show is becoming astute too.  Okay, he appeared more relaxed in social situations until it all went to pot with that trial than she but they are both "courtiers" in away.  Now, love the fact that you have said that you find Sandor and Arya more suited.  I think so too.  Those two are both more visceral.  Clearly neither of these could be shaped into a courtier a la Margaery/Sansa/Tyrion/LF...  They will both evolve dramatically too I am sure (him with his time of reflection in Quiet Island and her with the Faceless) but they still will remain (in my humble opinion) pretty hard to tame.  They are also both more physical in terms of say what we would call today sports whereas Tyrion are Sansa are both more at ease in a posh, comfy room...  Superficial things I know but definitely I could see Arya and Sandor more easily than Sandor and Sansa (despite the fact that he wrapped her with his cloak etc).  I feel if Arya could finally let go (and just like Tyrion she will have to at some point for her arc to be complete) she will have to forgive Sandor.  

Both Sansa and Arya where children; the one with dreams of comely princes and chivalries the other with her own sort of chivary code (hence she seems to put too much of the blame on the executioner with both ser Illyn Payne and the Hound).  I think with maturity she will realise that Sandor could not disobey Joffrey's orders... hence it was not his fault.  I am not saying that I predict them to be together (more inclined towards Gendry actually) but I do hope they also meet again, especially after how she left him... and that there is forgiveness between them.

I personally think that a lot of this ending and the final acts are pointing at forgiveness between houses and even people.  That may actually be the sweet part.  We have the perfect set up for this since they got the huge "common threat" so if these warring houses don't unite they all die, end of story.

I hope Sansa and Sandor end up on a friendly basis too btw.  He has been good to her too but I think the part of her that fantasised about him didn't do so because he was good but because he seemed exciting and dangerous to a point (scene where he asks her to sing etc).  In fact I see their story, if they panned out more Robin Hood/Maid Marian than Beauty and the Beast (who many claim is the basis for this relationship) and to be honest, deluded or not I think Dany fits Robin Hood better here than any other character.

All in all, although I doubt it will happen, I would be relatively pleasantly surprised if there was an Arya/Sandor romance.  What sealed it to me was that she couldn't actually killing despite him being on her "list" but denying it to herself.  I know it doesn't make sense to put these facts together but with Tyrion/Sansa yes the fact that she mentioned the "forbidden" word "never."  Never is too final and well letting someone live when pretending to yourself this is the best revenge you could get...  As I said, I don't think I explained this very well though but for me their could be a certain parallel and they have all gone on important journeys since...

As for character driven, I can see it of course but not exclusively.  The fact that we are debating like this here means that characters have been made to be "very important to us all" (regardless of which ones are our favs), however this is overall an epic which will culminate with the battle Living -v- Death and the kingdom reconstruction afterwards so much as it may be character driven you cannot end an epic with characters getting their sweethearts without a proper political and administrative structure in place.  Could it happen even with the couples that are more popular?  Yes, but alliances will have to be made and to me one of the foreshadowing elements is that George since to bang into us the Ned/Cat relationship and that was not love at first sight... but as I keep saying "we shall see..." :)

Re Sweet Robin, I have a tin foil theory lol.  I think Sansa is also showing complexity there at the Vale.  She dislikes the way the boy is but she knows why that is (Lysa lol) but has some sort of family feelings or compassion towards him or something.  Also he is still an impossible brat but better than he was... I think she will not marry him but save his life, for I bet you anything she will realise soon that he is being poisoned slowly.  She is not like to antagonise LF or stand up to him.  I think she will go behind the scenes and save him somehow.  Now, marrying him could be a double edge sword situation.  It would not remove Harry's ambition... more likely to get Harry involved (indirectly) in the poisoning...  however the only political value to her marriage to Harry is there if Robin is dead,so she will definitely (I think) try to postpone marriage to Harry.  Since some Lords of the Vale are very against LF, whilst some in his pocket I think this is the game she will play.  She will rally allies for Robin discreetly.  I expect Miranda Royce to play a part and I think Sansa might be willing to fork out dowry for her to marry Harry if in a position to do so (at the moment not the case) without LF's knowledge or something of that ilk.    Out of the two options, marrying Robin or Harry, marrying Robin is more like to save Robin's life but I don't think it will work out like that.  I think somehow Sansa will get his trust, respect and gratitude when he is a bit older...

 

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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On 7/7/2016 at 5:37 PM, permaximum said:

Some of you need to accept that there won't be any Tyrion-Sansa or even Sandor-Sansa relationship in the future.

I must admit I like LF as a complex character and I don't like Sansa. Because of that I don't like LF around Sansa but everything points to their marriage or partnership. Sansa will be together with LF and when the time comes she will choose him over her family in the end and they will both die eventually.

George RR Martin's letter about the original ending reveals one person from each family (the Starks and the Lannisters) is destined to betray his/her family. They are Tyrion and Sansa. Tyrion already did that. As for Sansa, in the original ending she was supposed to marry Joffrey and give birth to his child and eventually choose Joffrey over her family. It's obvious that LF replaced Joffrey in that betrayal plot.

I have a feeling Arya may kill Sansa, after killing LF and putting his face on :)

Okay, none of us know, for sure... but what would be the character or plot development in this story with your predicted ending?  Fair enough, I said earlier in the thread that the oddest things if well written could work.  A brief marriage of convenience (for her, or for her to save others could do it...) but this would be unsatisfactory.

To me the story is a sad one about warring houses.  All houses, even the Freys have characters that can be sympathetic.   In the show specially the Walda and baby thing got me; nearly as much as Shireen lol

 A little like say, right wing, left wing, fundamentalist Christians, Jews and Muslims please come together because people from Mars are throwing meteorites at us... lol only saying this because this is how I see the overall series; the main thread is the WWs.  Everything else is the personal story of the many involved.  A bit like watching, say a WWII movie with a few personal stories to add the human touch, but ultimately this is a battle.  Okay some battles can be won by diplomacy... but not this one; the diplomacy will make it possible for all living to go against the dead though, I think....

 LF is Sansa's mentor as the Faceless are Arya;s IMHO.  But there are other minor ones in the books, I reckon Miranda Royce is there for a reason too, Arya will find someone on the road apart from the ones she already found in Westeros...

Whether character driven or plot ridden, LF/Sansa marriage could only be short term.  Okay, like with Tyrion she could learn to "quietly" have a nice cup of wine and discuss a book I guess with him for the man is literate and stuff but she knows what he is... she lied about Lysa's death to stay alive herself and probably even felt a little grateful for Lysa well... was trying to kill her... but still she remembers.

What naive Sansa did at like 11 I wouldn't hold over her for ever.  Arya and Tyrion have done far worse say, as has Jaime and nearly everyone lol.  Being stuck in family wars is what George wanted us to do from the beginning but the ending cannot continue to be yet another Lannister/Stark/Targ feud or the story will end incomplete plot wise.

 

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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