Why did the Show discard Robb's will, only to arrive at the same outcome less credibly?

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

9 minutes ago, Boarsbane said:

And he lost miserably, it seems the supposedly harsh Northmen are just satisfied if you try. Risking your life doesn't mean as much when the guy your fighting probably intended to kill you regardless, the battle was as much self preservation as "just cause" against Ramsay.

He won Winterfell, which is true because he and his army (well technically Wun Wun)  broke the gate first. It's the medevial rule unless you want to say otherwise. Vale army can come and camp around Winterfell for 6 months and couldn't get through the gate as Ramsay closed it down. Let's not forget they can last for 6 months without interaction with outside. Jon also won Ramsay on 1-1 fight. There is no doubt the north people appreciate that. 

The thing is, ep 9 was stupid because D&D want to build up sibling rivalry for next season and empower Sansa and give her character more screen time For the fanbase.

Sansa both in the book and in the show are not fit to rule in a war against WW. That's it. She isn't chosen as queen because the final battle is against the enemies who have no fxxx to give about politics. 

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

3 minutes ago, David Selig said:

Jon was a moron on the show way before that episode. Hell, he is quite the dumbass in the books too.

He isn't that stupid in the book. In fact in the book he has made some deals that benefit NW. He has good negotiation skills in the book too. Actually in season 5 Jon wasn't too bad. Season 6 his character is totally wtf. 

[David Selig]

3 minutes ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

He won Winterfell, which is true because he and his army (well technically Wun Wun)  broke the gate first. It's the medevial rule unless you want to say otherwise. Vale army can come and camp around Winterfell for 6 months and couldn't get through the gate as Ramsay closed it down.

Oh, come on. If Wun Wun could break the gate so easily, so could 20 men with a battering ram. Ramsay had only a handful of men left in the castle, no way they could WF for long.

[Boarsbane]

4 minutes ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

He won Winterfell, which is true because he and his army (well technically Wun Wun)  broke the gate first. It's the medevial rule unless you want to say otherwise. Vale army can come and camp around Winterfell for 6 months and couldn't get through the gate as Ramsay closed it down. Let's not forget they can last for 6 months without interaction with outside. Jon also won Ramsay on 1-1 fight. There is no doubt the north people appreciate that. 

The thing is, ep 9 was stupid because D&D want to build up sibling rivalry for next season and empower Sansa and make her character less useless and stupid. In the book she was like...what? 

Sansa both in the book and in the show are not fit to rule in a war against WW. That's it. She isn't chosen as queen because the final battle is against the enemies who have no fxxx to give about politics. 

Ramsay has a skeleton crew as a garrison so I don't see why the Vale knights couldn't storm the castle or break the gate down themselves with a battering ram.

[Greg B]

1 minute ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

He isn't that stupid in the book. In fact in the book he has made some deals that benefit NW. He has good negotiation skills in the book too. Actually in season 5 Jon wasn't too bad. Season 6 his character is totally wtf. 

The only blatantly dumb thing he's done in either the books or the show, in my opinion, was believing the Pink Letter's claim that Stannis is dead. There is just no rational reason for him to believe that claim, and yet he does, so that's pretty dumb. Otherwise, in the books, he seems to just have some kind of psychotic break -- not stupidity, just some form of mental incapacity (temporary, presumably). I don't think he's done anything dumb or insane in the show, though if he doesn't have a death wish he does seem to be rather ambivalent about the whole living thing since coming back.

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

Just now, David Selig said:

Oh, come on. If Wun Wun could break the gate so easily, so could 20 men with a battering ram. Ramsay had only a handful of men left in the castle, no way they could WF for long.

I highly doubt that lol. The way they builT up the story was that Ramsay and the folks inside WD were too shocked when Wun Wun broke the gate. They didn't expect that and they thought they were safe for a while. 

And it still stands that it's Jon's side who broke WF fate first, so they get the credit. It's the rule. Actually it's the rule in all battles unless the Vale would be like "No, we come for Wintefell, you shit!" Then start another battle all over again. 

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

3 minutes ago, Boarsbane said:

Ramsay has a skeleton crew as a garrison so I don't see why the Vale knights couldn't storm the castle or break the gate down themselves with a battering ram.

Judging from Ramsay's reaction, I think that he thought WF's gate could last for a while. 

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

3 minutes ago, Greg B said:

The only blatantly dumb thing he's done in either the books or the show, in my opinion, was believing the Pink Letter's claim that Stannis is dead. There is just no rational reason for him to believe that claim, and yet he does, so that's pretty dumb. Otherwise, in the books, he seems to just have some kind of psychotic break -- not stupidity, just some form of mental incapacity (temporary, presumably). I don't think he's done anything dumb or insane in the show, though if he doesn't have a death wish he does seem to be rather ambivalent about the whole living thing since coming back.

In the show, the letter was obvious from Ramsay and he didn't react much lol. In the book we don't know (yet). Martin says there will be a twist from a character that is dead in the show but alive in the book so we will see who actually sent that letter and if there is any mystery in that. Or maybe it's just bad writing lmao. 

In the show, the battle of bastards was mostly just for visual and cinematic effects IMO. And some parallel to Lord of the rings... Bleh

[Greg B]

1 minute ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

In the show, the letter was obvious from Ramsay and he didn't react much lol. In the book we don't know (yet). Martin says there will be a twist from a character that is dead in the show but alive in the book so we will see who actually sent that letter and if there is any mystery in that. Or maybe it's just bad writing lmao. 

In the show, the battle of bastards was mostly just for visual and cinematic effects IMO. And some parallel to Lord of the rings... Bleh

Yes, the dumb thing (believing the claim that Stannis was dead) was only in the book. The Battle of the Bastards was good. Jon and Davos had a smart tactical plan, but then Ramsay dangled Rickon out there and Jon couldn't help himself. You can call it a character flaw that Ramsay exploited, but it wasn't stupidity. Some have argued Davos was stupid and should have sacrificed Jon to stick to the plan, but it was clear that Ramsay hadn't been baited to charge into the double envelopment.

[messem]

29 minutes ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

I highly doubt that lol. The way they builT up the story was that Ramsay and the folks inside WD were too shocked when Wun Wun broke the gate. They didn't expect that and they thought they were safe for a while. 

But then who could've guessed that a castle from the age of heroes couldn't withstand a giant longer than 20 seconds?

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

Just now, messem said:

But then who could've guessed that a castle from the age of heroes couldn't withstand a giant longer than 20 seconds?

Because they never had to battle with a giant before?

[messem]

1 minute ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

Because they never had to battle with a giant before?

Winterfell was supposedly built by Brandon the Builder over eight thousand years ago, with the help of giants.

One would assume that it withstands a giant longer than a few seconds. Regardless if the people inside ever fought against a giant. 

[Greg B]

3 minutes ago, messem said:

Winterfell was supposedly built by Brandon the Builder over eight thousand years ago, with the help of giants.

One would assume that it withstands a giant longer than a few seconds. Regardless if the people inside ever fought against a giant. 

Maybe the keep required a new gate sometime in the last eight thousand years and it wasn't quite up to Long Night code.

[sifth]

1 hour ago, Eli Stark said:

The marriage was never consummated.  The book makes a point that until consummation, a marriage can be annulled.  Not sure what paper work/approval you would need though to be officially annulled, or if the couple can simply walk away.

Seems like a pretty poor excuse if you ask me. It's not like there's any real proof that Tyrion and Sansa didn't have sex.

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

18 minutes ago, messem said:

Winterfell was supposedly built by Brandon the Builder over eight thousand years ago, with the help of giants.

One would assume that it withstands a giant longer than a few seconds. Regardless if the people inside ever fought against a giant. 

It's 8 thousand years ago, the fact that the gate still stood until Wun Wun broke it is a miracle lmao

[messem]

24 minutes ago, Greg B said:

Maybe the keep required a new gate sometime in the last eight thousand years and it wasn't quite up to Long Night code.

 

8 minutes ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

It's 8 thousand years ago, the fact that the gate still stood until Wun Wun broke it is a miracle lmao

I thin kit is save to assume that the wooden parts have been exchanged in the meantime. But when you have to replace your safe you don't replace it with an aquarium if you get my drift. 

[Greg B]

4 minutes ago, messem said:

 

I thin kit is save to assume that the wooden parts have been exchanged in the meantime. But when you have to replace your safe you don't replace it with an aquarium if you get my drift. 

I think I get your drift: You didn't think Wun Wun should have been able to punch through the gate. Ramsay didn't either, so you're not alone. At least you didn't get fed to the hounds.

[YoungGriff89]

The writing on the scene was pretty stupid.  "We know king except the king in the north whose name is Stark."  "Eh, Stark, Snow, close enough.  They both start with S.  Go Jon SNOW!  King in the north!  King Snow!"

[Johnston]

When we got Lyanna's letter to Stannis I thought  umm maybe a will is going to turn up. 

 

The KiTN scene, to me, reeked of.

 

Right this is where we have the Mormonts produce Rob's will legitimizing Jon and Crown him KiTN like we set up last year with Lyanna's letter to Stannis. 

Sorry D we didn't do a will and the Mormont that should have it was written out. How do we explain a 12yo girl having Robs will? 

Ah Ballix right well we'll have what ever Mormont we have make a speech.

Aye that'll do no one will notice. 

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

16 minutes ago, YoungGriff89 said:

The writing on the scene was pretty stupid.  "We know king except the king in the north whose name is Stark."  "Eh, Stark, Snow, close enough.  They both start with S.  Go Jon SNOW!  King in the north!  King Snow!"

I think in the book, Jon will be declared King in the North (or like people throw the title on him) all the same. But the situation might be vastly different. Maybe in the book they will eventually find out about Robb's will.