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Lee-Sensei

Jon Snow, King of the north and Vale

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To me, the idea that many Vale lords would want to help the Starks made sense. I didn't think they'd swear fealty to Robb or Sansa, but they had a connection. They were sent North by Robin Arryn to help his cousin, Sansa. So why are they swearing fealty to a foreign bastard they've never met before? Unlike Robb who saved the Riverlands, Jon lost his battle. The Vale saved him.

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I'm not sure the Vale lords were swearing allegiance to him, but were supporting him becoming the King in the North, the Vale is separate but allied. And that assumes that there were Vale lords in there other than Littlefinger.

Besides, most of the Vale lords had wanted to join up with Robb in his war. The only reason they didn't was because of Lysa Arryn (under Littlefinger's influence) keeping them in the Vale and staying out of things.

 

Plus, Lyanna Mormont had just shamed the hell out of the Northern Lords and thrown down the gauntlet for Jon Snow, King in the North - Jon, taking up Robb's mantle, so to speak. Which lord was going to argue with her? None of the Northerners could, and the Valemen couldn't either - they didn't aid Robb Stark.

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1 minute ago, illinifan said:

Did they? I thought that it was just the North swearing fealty to Jon.  

Well, the all, including Lord Royce stood up screaming King in the North.

Book parallel to this would be Riverlords doing this for Robb.

I am not quite sure about the roles here and whether Jon indeed seized control over Vale right in front of LF or was it just a symbolic thing. 

What is undoubted now is that Free Folk, North and Vale are one powerblock. 

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I think it's just to show that basically we've reached a point where it's time for alliances, it's a matter of life or death, it doesn't really matter who will swear fealty to who now (bastard, trueborn.....), everyone need a leader  :

  • it's a mirroring to what happened in Robert's rebellion
  • it's a mirroring to the alliance dany + greyjoys + tyrells + martells

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I have a question. Lord Cerwin, the one who saw his father flayed alive by ramsey and did nothing, said that the bolton have been defeated, the war was over, the biggest storm is coming in 1000s of years and they should ride home and wait the coming storm in their houses. To what Jon said that the war wasnt over and the true enemy does not wait the storms, he brings them. Do the lords know what Jon is talking about?, Do they know that the White Walkers of Legends are coming down on them with an army of the dead?, because it seemed to me, going by what lord Cerwin said that they know nothing. WHAT IS THE DEAL?, THIS THING IS BEING LEFT VAGUE AND I DON'T LIKE IT.

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20 minutes ago, Risto said:

Well, the all, including Lord Royce stood up screaming King in the North.

Book parallel to this would be Riverlords doing this for Robb.

I am not quite sure about the roles here and whether Jon indeed seized control over Vale right in front of LF or was it just a symbolic thing. 

What is undoubted now is that Free Folk, North and Vale are one powerblock. 

Was Royce in the scene?  I will have to look again.  There was a lot going on there.  I liked that Davos proclaimed Jon his king.  (And Tormund went for the bread because free folk don't kneel.)   Royce is suspicious of LF and was concerned about Sansa's well-being so he might be willing to follow Jon. 

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4 minutes ago, illinifan said:

Was Royce in the scene?  I will have to look again.  There was a lot going on there.  I liked that Davos proclaimed Jon his king.  (And Tormund went for the bread because free folk don't kneel.)   Royce is suspicious of LF and was concerned about Sansa's well-being so he might be willing to follow Jon. 

He was. He spoke about wildlings and how Knights of the Vale don't fight with them and that he didn't invite them.

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Royce is obviously pissed with LF and Robin Arryn, it couldn't be strange if he stand with Jon so he can ride LF of his influence.

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Possible that the lords want to go to war for Sansa. She was quite convincing with them last time. It's possible that Robbin gave the order to follow sansa

its possible that it was in the moment and that these two regions have close ties and support one another again

 

this is one of those.. "We have to wait and see things" 

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14 minutes ago, illinifan said:

Was Royce in the scene?  I will have to look again.

He was off to Lord Manderlay's right.. the viewers left. Just at the beginning of the scene he spoke out against the Wildlings.

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29 minutes ago, tormond said:

I have a question. Lord Cerwin, the one who saw his father flayed alive by ramsey and did nothing, said that the bolton have been defeated, the war was over, the biggest storm is coming in 1000s of years and they should ride home and wait the coming storm in their houses. To what Jon said that the war wasnt over and the true enemy does not wait the storms, he brings them. Do the lords know what Jon is talking about?, Do they know that the White Walkers of Legends are coming down on them with an army of the dead?, because it seemed to me, going by what lord Cerwin said that they know nothing. WHAT IS THE DEAL?, THIS THING IS BEING LEFT VAGUE AND I DON'T LIKE IT.

Had some of the same questions.  I would think that the Northern lords would have heard from the Night's Watch about what had been going on (believe they trade with them and give "donations" to the Night's Watch in the books at least).  Ramsay seemed to have heard about Jon's fighting skills, and only way anyone would think much of Jon's skills is the fighting he's done in the NW, which included fighting the WW.

Maybe Cerwyn and the other lords even think they are safe behind the wall.  Are the spells/magic in the wall known to the lords then (or at least stories of it), or is that something book readers would know that isn't "common knowledge/legend" in the North?  Not sure.  

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35 minutes ago, tormond said:

I have a question. Lord Cerwin, the one who saw his father flayed alive by ramsey and did nothing, said that the bolton have been defeated, the war was over, the biggest storm is coming in 1000s of years and they should ride home and wait the coming storm in their houses. To what Jon said that the war wasnt over and the true enemy does not wait the storms, he brings them. Do the lords know what Jon is talking about?, Do they know that the White Walkers of Legends are coming down on them with an army of the dead?, because it seemed to me, going by what lord Cerwin said that they know nothing. WHAT IS THE DEAL?, THIS THING IS BEING LEFT VAGUE AND I DON'T LIKE IT.

DnD are still figuring out how to get the lords to believe that WWs exist without making Jon look stupid. You'll just have to wait till next season.

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12 minutes ago, jrod said:

Had some of the same questions.  I would think that the Northern lords would have heard from the Night's Watch about what had been going on (believe they trade with them and give "donations" to the Night's Watch in the books at least).  Ramsay seemed to have heard about Jon's fighting skills, and only way anyone would think much of Jon's skills is the fighting he's done in the NW, which included fighting the WW.

Maybe Cerwyn and the other lords even think they are safe behind the wall.  Are the spells/magic in the wall known to the lords then (or at least stories of it), or is that something book readers would know that isn't "common knowledge/legend" in the North?  Not sure.  

I would have no problem if they were acting like in disbelief. For freaking sake a GIANT was fighting the BOLTONS, im sure the boltons saw him, im sure the VALE soldiers saw him but there was no wonderment, no awe, no fear, no WHAT THE HELL IS THAT? on their part. So im scratching my head about the lords of the north, if they've been told of what's happening up north and if they are just brushing off like the BOLTONS did with that GIANT. By the way, that was terrible story telling the Boltons and the vale brushing off seeing a GIANT on the battlefield

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Jon is now king in the  North. But what happens when Bran will return to Winterfell? He is Neds trueborn son, how will the North react to this?  Don´t get me wrong, I love Jon seeing as crowned king and he really deserves it....Your thoughts? .

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10 minutes ago, Jasmin Stark of the North said:

Jon is now king in the  North. But what happens when Bran will return to Winterfell? He is Neds trueborn son, how will the North react to this?  Don´t get me wrong, I love Jon seeing as crowned king and he really deserves it....Your thoughts? .

I personally think that King in the north doesn't mean Lord of Winterfell, I could be wrong but they never explained what's  lord of Winterfell, warden of North and the king in the north in the show, it seems so complicated

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5 minutes ago, Jasmin Stark of the North said:

Jon is now king in the  North. But what happens when Bran will return to Winterfell? He is Neds trueborn son, how will the North react to this?  Don´t get me wrong, I love Jon seeing as crowned king and he really deserves it....Your thoughts? .

I don't think Bran wants Winterfell, he knows his purpose is to use his greenseeing abilities to aid in the War for the Dawn. He'll probably wants Jon to unite the realm against the WW and reveal his parentage. Though they will need some real evidence first for that to happen.

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1 hour ago, tormond said:

I have a question. Lord Cerwin, the one who saw his father flayed alive by ramsey and did nothing, said that the bolton have been defeated, the war was over, the biggest storm is coming in 1000s of years and they should ride home and wait the coming storm in their houses. To what Jon said that the war wasnt over and the true enemy does not wait the storms, he brings them. Do the lords know what Jon is talking about?, Do they know that the White Walkers of Legends are coming down on them with an army of the dead?, because it seemed to me, going by what lord Cerwin said that they know nothing. WHAT IS THE DEAL?, THIS THING IS BEING LEFT VAGUE AND I DON'T LIKE IT.

I believe White Walkers, at this point and this far removed from the Long Night, are seen as nothing more than a scary story to get your kids to stay in bed at night.  All of the houses seem to have replaced the danger they represent, with the wildlings that live north of the wall -- which is why you see people like Randyll Tarly and Bronze Yohn Royce so angry about the wildlings, even though they're so far removed from the area, Tarly especially.  And the reason we're given from the Umber's is they're the furthest to the north and most likely to deal with the perceived enemy, the wildlings.  They're in for a huge shock.

12 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

To me, the idea that many Vale lords would want to help the Starks made sense. I didn't think they'd swear fealty to Robb or Sansa, but they had a connection. They were sent North by Robin Arryn to help his cousin, Sansa. So why are they swearing fealty to a foreign bastard they've never met before? Unlike Robb who saved the Riverlands, Jon lost his battle. The Vale saved him.

I think this is one best explained by the books as a source.  Bronze Yohn wanted to commit the Knights of the Vale to Robb Stark to avenge Ned.  He and Ned were good friends from their time growing up, since Ned was fostered in the Eyrie.  To keep this logic going, Lysa stopped him from leading the army out to support him; Lysa no longer stands in his way, so he's doing what he wanted to do initially... join the fight behind Ned's "son."

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I don't see any evidence that the Vale have rebelled against the Iron Throne by switching their fealty to the King in the North instead.

In a feudal system, you cannot swear fealty to two kings at once. There can be only one.

But it makes sense for them to support FakeJon's attempt to take back Winterfell. That's all.

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3 minutes ago, BulletTooth_Tony said:

I think this is one best explained by the books as a source.  Bronze Yohn wanted to commit the Knights of the Vale to Robb Stark to avenge Ned.  He and Ned were good friends from their time growing up, since Ned was fostered in the Eyrie.  To keep this logic going, Lysa stopped him from leading the army out to support him; Lysa no longer stands in his way, so he's doing what he wanted to do initially... join the fight behind Ned's "son."

Aye, Robin won't complain about it now that Sansa is safe again. She might even convince him to swear fealty to Jon.

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