the conquering bastard 25 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 On 6/27/2016 at 10:03 PM, Lee-Sensei said: To me, the idea that many Vale lords would want to help the Starks made sense. I didn't think they'd swear fealty to Robb or Sansa, but they had a connection. They were sent North by Robin Arryn to help his cousin, Sansa. So why are they swearing fealty to a foreign bastard they've never met before? Unlike Robb who saved the Riverlands, Jon lost his battle. The Vale saved him. I have been telling you for months that Jon Snow would become the lord and master of the Vale. Jon Snow has Royce blood and as he has dragon blood as well... Every Arryn has a drop of dragon blood just like every dragon has a drop or two of falcon blood. The realm might not know of this connection yet but its coming. I have foreseen this connection coming every sense the Lords Declarant figured out who Sansa was. This was just the shows way of making it plausible as they have left out certain parts of the Vale storyline. Namely the LDs, the tourney, Maranda Royce and even Harry the Heir. This was just the first step of a huge network of allies and new kingdom forged by the North, Vale, Trident and Westerlands. Don't forget Sansa is still wed to Tyrion and thru him and a child they can have together brings the West into the fold. All of this was to come into play from way back when Rickard Stark, Jon Arryn, Robert Baraheon, Hosteen Tully, and Tywin Lannister were making a play to destabilize the Targ regime before Roberts rebellion. It's just coming about more organically this time. But hey what do I know I only saw this coming and have been arguing with you about this for quite some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbuehner Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 On 6/30/2016 at 9:48 AM, Lee-Sensei said: No it didn't. Making this foreign bastard King of the Vale without their Lords approval isn't a way to diminish LF's power. If anything, it makes them a target for SR since they really have no right to make Jon King of the Vale. How many swords does SR have? Thats all that matters at the end of the day. LF knows that as well as anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbuehner Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 1 hour ago, the conquering bastard 25 said: But hey what do I know I only saw this coming and have been arguing with you about this for quite some time. Congrats for reading into events what you saw coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 Just now, Chib said: 1) Rob was Cat's son and his uncle was Riverrun's lord. Jon has no relationship to Vale at all. Vale army did not call him king of the Vale. They clapped along and that's all. 2) I never said LF has the right to make Jon King of Vale. I say that LF agrees to support the Starks which both Vale army and Robin have no issue with. Look at the part house allies in the official website: http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-6/episode-10/houses/4/house-stark 3) Ancient rule and it is still relevant today, who break the gate first, it's theirs. Vale army did not break the gate first. It is not theirs. Go back to military 101. If Vale wanted to conquer Winterfell at all cost, they must have killed or captured Jon and the Wildlings and declare Winterfell as theirs. They did not. The Winterfell belongs to the one who broke the gate first by force. Just now, Chib said: 1) Rob was Cat's son and his uncle was Riverrun's lord. Jon has no relationship to Vale at all. Vale army did not call him king of the Vale. They clapped along and that's all. 2) I never said LF has the right to make Jon King of Vale. I say that LF agrees to support the Starks which both Vale army and Robin have no issue with. Look at the part house allies in the official website: http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-6/episode-10/houses/4/house-stark 3) Ancient rule and it is still relevant today, who break the gate first, it's theirs. Vale army did not break the gate first. It is not theirs. Go back to military 101. If Vale wanted to conquer Winterfell at all cost, they must have killed or captured Jon and the Wildlings and declare Winterfell as theirs. They did not. The Winterfell belongs to the one who broke the gate first by force. 1) They raised their sword with Davos, the Wildlings and the Northmen and declared Jon King. I repeat, it was a direct parallel to Robb beinf declared King by the Northmen, Riverlords and Theon (which also mad no sense and didn't happen in the books). 2) 3) What ancient rules? This is nonsense. You're capable of educating me on military affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 Just now, mbuehner said: How many swords does SR have? Thats all that matters at the end of the day. LF knows that as well as anyone. He has all of them. They're his swords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 Just now, the conquering bastard 25 said: I have been telling you for months that Jon Snow would become the lord and master of the Vale. Jon Snow has Royce blood and as he has dragon blood as well... Every Arryn has a drop of dragon blood just like every dragon has a drop or two of falcon blood. The realm might not know of this connection yet but its coming. I have foreseen this connection coming every sense the Lords Declarant figured out who Sansa was. This was just the shows way of making it plausible as they have left out certain parts of the Vale storyline. Namely the LDs, the tourney, Maranda Royce and even Harry the Heir. This was just the first step of a huge network of allies and new kingdom forged by the North, Vale, Trident and Westerlands. Don't forget Sansa is still wed to Tyrion and thru him and a child they can have together brings the West into the fold. All of this was to come into play from way back when Rickard Stark, Jon Arryn, Robert Baraheon, Hosteen Tully, and Tywin Lannister were making a play to destabilize the Targ regime before Roberts rebellion. It's just coming about more organically this time. But hey what do I know I only saw this coming and have been arguing with you about this for quite some time. Don't get to excited for your precious Prince. This is a show thing, not a book one. Don't be smug. 2) There's no proof that the Arryns have Targaryen blood. 3) The idea that the Lannisters would swear fealty to Jon Snow is complete nonsense. Sansa was married twice. Her marriage to Tyrion was unconsumated. 4) You don't know much, bastard. This is true only in the show. It's not true in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbuehner Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 4 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said: He has all of them. They're his swords. Strange how they were chanting for the King of the North then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyen Thuy Tran Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Lee-Sensei said: 1) They raised their sword with Davos, the Wildlings and the Northmen and declared Jon King. I repeat, it was a direct parallel to Robb beinf declared King by the Northmen, Riverlords and Theon (which also mad no sense and didn't happen in the books). 2) 3) What ancient rules? This is nonsense. You're capable of educating me on military affairs. 1) it was an act of politeness. They're in the North's house. They praise the host. Why it's so hard to get. 3) dear, you should be happy you're not living in a country with war. My country suffered from civil war just around 30 years ago, my father was sent to the war, his brothers died in the war. We know pretty much about military affairs, more than you. Who broke the damn gate first won the claim to it by force, period. Accept it. It's the damn rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddard the Builder Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 8 hours ago, Winter's Cold said: Jon Snow can't be considered King of the Vale unless Sweetrobin swears fealty to him. " Maege Mormont stood. “The King of Winter!” she declared, and laid her spiked mace beside the swords. And the river lords were rising too, Blackwood and Bracken and Mallister, houses who had never been ruled from Winterfell, yet Catelyn watched them rise and draw their blades, bending their knees and shouting the old words that had not been heard in the realm for more than three hundred years, since Aegon the Dragon had come to make the Seven Kingdoms one . . . yet now were heard again, ringing from the timbers of her father’s hall: “The King in the North!” “The King in the North!” “THE KING IN THE NORTH!”" The Blackwoods, Brackens and Mallisters did not have the permission of their liege lord Hoster Tully when they bent the knee to Robb. And those Houses like the Tullys way more than Lord Royce and the High Lords of the Vale like Littlefinger. Lady Waynwood even implies that she would have backed/ pledged fealty to Robb if he hadn't died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbuehner Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 2 minutes ago, Eddard the Builder said: " Maege Mormont stood. “The King of Winter!” she declared, and laid her spiked mace beside the swords. And the river lords were rising too, Blackwood and Bracken and Mallister, houses who had never been ruled from Winterfell, yet Catelyn watched them rise and draw their blades, bending their knees and shouting the old words that had not been heard in the realm for more than three hundred years, since Aegon the Dragon had come to make the Seven Kingdoms one . . . yet now were heard again, ringing from the timbers of her father’s hall: “The King in the North!” “The King in the North!” “THE KING IN THE NORTH!”" The Blackwoods, Brackens and Mallisters did not have the permission of their liege lord Hoster Tully when they bent the knee to Robb. And those Houses like the Tullys way more than Lord Royce and the High Lords of the Vale like Littlefinger. Lady Waynwood even implies that she would have backed/ pledged fealty to Robb if he hadn't died. Quote Stannis: Do you think a few bolts of cloth will make you king? Renly: Tyrell swords will make me king. Rowan and Tarly and Caron will make me king, with axe and mace and warhammer. Tarth arrows and Penrose lances, Fossoway, Cuy, Mullendore, Estermont, Selmy, Hightower, Oakheart, Crane, Caswell, Blackbar, Morrigen, Beesbury, Shermer, Dunn, Footly . . . even House Florent, your own wife's brothers and uncles, they will make me king. All the chivalry of the south rides with me, and that is the least part of my power. My foot is coming behind, a hundred thousand swords and spears and pikes. And you will destroy me? With what, pray? That paltry rabble I see there huddled under the castle walls? I'll call them five thousand and be generous, codfish lords and onion knights and sellswords. Half of them are like to come over to me before the battle starts. You have fewer than four hundred horse, my scouts tell me-freeriders in boiled leather who will not stand an instant against armored lances. I do not care how seasoned a warrior you think you are, Stannis, that host of yours won't survive the first charge of my vanguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
of man and wolf Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 How can Jon be king anyway with Bran still alive, and some people knowing he's still alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbuehner Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 7 minutes ago, of man and wolf said: How can Jon be king anyway with Bran still alive, and some people knowing he's still alive? Because the world is falling apart and rules dont mean crap, which has been the lesson beaten over everyones head since the beginning of the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 Just now, Eddard the Builder said: " Maege Mormont stood. “The King of Winter!” she declared, and laid her spiked mace beside the swords. And the river lords were rising too, Blackwood and Bracken and Mallister, houses who had never been ruled from Winterfell, yet Catelyn watched them rise and draw their blades, bending their knees and shouting the old words that had not been heard in the realm for more than three hundred years, since Aegon the Dragon had come to make the Seven Kingdoms one . . . yet now were heard again, ringing from the timbers of her father’s hall: “The King in the North!” “The King in the North!” “THE KING IN THE NORTH!”" The Blackwoods, Brackens and Mallisters did not have the permission of their liege lord Hoster Tully when they bent the knee to Robb. And those Houses like the Tullys way more than Lord Royce and the High Lords of the Vale like Littlefinger. Lady Waynwood even implies that she would have backed/ pledged fealty to Robb if he hadn't died. No she didn't. And Littlefinger isn't Lord of the Vale. They're ruled by House Arryn and have been for over 6000 years. Not to mention the Tullys are related to Robb and had just been saved by him. Jon isn't related to the Arryns and needed to be saved by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 Just now, Quyen Thuy Tran said: 1) it was an act of politeness. They're in the North's house. They praise the host. Why it's so hard to get. 3) dear, you should be happy you're not living in a country with war. My country suffered from civil war just around 30 years ago, my father was sent to the war, his brothers died in the war. We know pretty much about military affairs, more than you. Who broke the damn gate first won the claim to it by force, period. Accept it. It's the damn rule. 1) Do you know what alegiance means? 2) Coming from a war torn country does not make you an expert on warfare. Who said that it's a "rule" that the first person in a castle conquered it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 Just now, mbuehner said: Strange how they were chanting for the King of the North then. Yes, well that's the TV Show. The same TV show that had Theon swear fealty to the Starks even though it would be anathama for him to do so in the books. Ultimately, who they swear fealty to or not depends on the decisions of Robert Arryn and he hasn't yet acknowledged the existence of this dimwitted losing bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billabong Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Not another king of the north. This happens every season as we get an even newer king of the north's northern most northiest north that always has new king in the north, and as everybody always jumps up and down shouting to their new king of the north's northern most northiest north. This kind of tedious repetition is simply a killer, please just don't tell me that they are all going south again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyen Thuy Tran Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 27 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said: 1) Do you know what alegiance means? 2) Coming from a war torn country does not make you an expert on warfare. Who said that it's a "rule" that the first person in a castle conquered it? 1) do you know what politeness mean? 2) they broke the castle gate first, they killed the soldiers who kept the castle, they beat the lord of the castle and captured him. So it doesn't count as capturing the castle? Dear, go read Romance of 3 kingdoms, ancient Chinese history teaches you all of this. Don't make a fool of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billabong Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 1 minute ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said: 2) they broke the castle first, they killed the soldiers who kept the castle, they beat the lord of the castle and captured him. So it doesn't count as capturing the castle? Dear, go read romance of 3 kingdom, ancient Chinese history teach you all of this. What I didn't understand was why they just didn't shoot Snow in the back, because he only went and killed all the archers who didn't shoot him next? But those gates were made out of Balsa, hey guys we just lift the latch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyen Thuy Tran Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 17 minutes ago, Billabong said: What I didn't understand was why they just didn't shoot Snow in the back, because he only went and killed all the archers who didn't shoot him next? But those gates were made out of Balsa, hey guys we just lift the latch That is plot armor dear lol. Honestly I'm still baffled that some Jon-haters are still denying that he has the right claim of Winterfell by force. This actually happened in my country not too long ago. People on my father's side were much smaller and weaker against a much richer side. They could have never won without the help of several supporters from other countries. Yeah they technically relied on their supporters weapons and all, but they did break the gate of their enemy's military base and claimed it. They are recognized as the side that won the war and it's in history. It's nothing new at all in human history, that smaller groups can get supports from outside and win the war. This is reality and some stupid people can't accept it. I can't understand what kind of logic they have grown up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingInTheBay Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I think many of you have forgotten the very first scene of the show. The black brother beheaded in that scene is ser wymar Royce, bronze yohns son. So it entirely stands to reason he has heard of Jon, and knows something is amiss north of the wall. The fact his son took the black in the first place shows an affinity between the Vale and the north Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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