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Cersei as queen - how is she accepted by the realm?


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Just now, Chib said:

Most of the realm will just ignore Cersei. Now they have a legitimate reason to rebel.

Do we know the status of Riverland? After Frey's death, Edmund Tully will come back as the ruler or what? If so he will support Sansa.

Sansa will come to the Vale and marry Robin. She will have both Vale and Riverland then. 

Jon... I still have doubt about him go South. I think he will just stay in the North and "I don't care about Vale or Riverlands or the lands in the South" etc, unless he has to go South to ask for more help against WW. I don't think Jon will gain more land or so. Maybe allies. 

Cersei's another chance might be a marriage Euron if he gives up on Dany. 

Why would Edmure support Sansa taking the Riverlands from him and his child?

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6 hours ago, Jarl Halstein said:

But people know very little history today and like to simplify it as "war BAD! The past is evil!"

Thank you for making that clear :)

You need the support of your people, mostly your lords mabye, but even the commoners. Maybe it's enough to say that the others are ugly and smell, but even then you have to tell them that. You usually cannot pull a Ramsay on people. Bad rulers provoke gods to punish everyone. It is known. That's why this thing with Rickon was so ridiculous.

The Romans had the concept of the "just war". That means you need a damn good reason for a war, or the gods will most likely not support you. Of course the Romans liked to lie about those things, but it was very important to them to be the good guys. As far as I know that was not different in the greek period and I can only guess, but I think it wasnt't different in the shadow of the pyramids. People want to believe they are the good ones. I could imagine that this is a very, very old thing for us. I'm pretty sure that comes from old tribal genes, a couple millions of years old.

So, yeah... the people WILL care. It's not even the people in the small villages in the far west we are talking about. Maybe THEY really don't care. But KL is the same city. I know it's medieval fantasy, but you can KL compare to Rome in my opinion. Look at the city history of Rome. People tend to care about what's going on in their cities.

I don't think it's really important, because the producers will not care about this question. But ACTUALLY it should be very interesting to see how they explain the whole thing. "Well, it was an accident." "A punishment by the gods of course. The HS was a betrayer to the true spirit of the gods". "It was Cercei and where that came from is a lot more, so shut the f up and greet the new zombie knight brigade!"

I'd love to know. 

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20 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Why would Edmure support Sansa taking the Riverlands from him and his child?

Because he is such a weak ruler? So you think he'd rather kneel to Cersei or Dany or support his nieces aka Sansa and Arya?  

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17 hours ago, TheSerb said:

Cersei basically only rules the Crownlands, the Stormlands and the Westerlands now, everyone else has rebelled to either Jon or Dany. She is able to claim the throne the same way Ramsay managed to convince the North he was the Warden: pure fear. Northerners wouldn't rebel against Ramsay because they knew he'd peel their skin right off if they failed. Same thing in King's Landing. Many people are probably terrified for their lives now, as you don't wanna fuck with a crazy person who bombs the whole sept and burns hundreds of people alive with wildfire because she was pissed off at them.

This is a good point -- we know that in every other principality there is intrigue between (or within) the paramount houses and their rivals, i.e., Frey vs Tully, Stark vs Bolton, Baratheon vs. Baratheon, Martell vs. Martell. So it would logically be true with the Westerlands, even the Crownlands.

I don't think Cersei rules much more than the immediate space that Gregor Clegane can smash.

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She took the throne by force just like Targaryens did, just like Robert Baratheon did, just like Daenerys intends to, just like many rulers/conquerors in our history.

We have yet to see the Lords' reaction to this development. She just got crowned. But even people at her court don't seem to be on her side, they look displeased to say the least. Hence those soldiers barring them from her. She's a tyrant now. No one in KL dares oppose her. No one has the power. Only smallfolk remain and most don't care about politics.

Why are people so stuck on succession laws? They are muddy in times of peace, they mean little in times of war.

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21 hours ago, Targaryen loyalist said:

Cersei now rules on the Crownlands and the Westerlands... The rest of the 7K are gone.

And the uber-army of Dany is coming...

I think KL is finished now. The only influence that Cersi may have is becoming the mad queen. She's completely lost the plot. Her three children are dead and I think Jamie is going to disown her as well. 

I would like to see Dany land at Dragonstone or Storms end. the Lannister's havent done much for the common folk so can see them being easily persuaded to follow her. There aren't any real powers left to oppose her apart from the Lannisters; Stark will some how join her, Tyrells already have, Dorne has. The freys seem good and burried and i would hope the Riverlands are taken back by Edmure (if he's released by Ayra). 

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Just now, Chib said:

Because he is such a weak ruler? So you think he'd rather kneel to Cersei or Dany or support his nieces aka Sansa and Arya?  

So he'd give control to a 14 year old child? No. Edmure would be a good Lod in peace tjme, and tne Stark children aren't more competent than him as rulers.

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At this point in the show people believe she has the Lannister's army backing, that she has Jaime on her side. They cannot know better. Jaime has just got back. Power resides where men believe it resides. This plotline has just started. Let's wait and see how it plays out. For all we know her reign may last 2 episodes at most.

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What bothers me about these matters such Cersei assuming the crown and Bolton Winterfell's lands, titles and other entitlements is that we see none of the horse-trading that makes for such business to work.  You support me in my claim to the throne / Winterfell and Sansa (who should have been a ward of the crown at least the Lannisters and thus not to be handed over to whomever), and I'll give you a slice of this, the income from these taxes on exports and / or imports, the wardship of this very profitable young heir or heiress and these titles to go with it, and exemption from taxes for so many years, and marry your youngest child to my youngest child, giving you an opportunity through their children to start running all My Stuffs yourself.

These matters are the heart of medieval politics and regime changes, from the lowest ranked knights to kings and emperors.

 

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21 hours ago, JMJ said:

I predict it will play out differently. They've set up a situation where Cerise's only power backing is the Lannisters, controlled by Jaime. She really depends on Jaime's military support from now on. As everyone is predicting, Jaime will likely eventually turn on Cersei, it's just a matter of when. 

Moreover, I wouldn't consider Cersei the main human antagonist. There is still Littlefinger, and it's not clear to me Westeros will see Dany as a great liberator. She's going to show up mostly an unknown, with 3 frightening dragons, a horde of foreign Dothrakhi pillagers and rapists, as well as a foreign army of Unsullied. It's not clear Dany is a protagonist at this point. 

Yah -- I've been wondering all along about those Dothrakhi hordes, who do these things in order to pillage and plunder.  They're no Unsullied who mindlessly obey and do whatever.  They've got to be PAID and they've got to be fed.  And -- here comes Winter making food very scarce.

 

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It looks like Dany has the upper hand until you consider the question of outlanders. The Dothraki, the unsullied will be unwelcome. The Dornish - well who likes the Dornish, the Tyrells are up-jumped. Questions need to be addressed as to what happens to those outlanders i.e with what lands and titles will they be awarded - whose lands and titles. After Roberts rebellion those house that remained loyal to the Targs paid as heavy price in lost territory and taxes. Better the devil you know than the devil with dragons and outlanders.

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25 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Yah -- I've been wondering all along about those Dothrakhi hordes, who do these things in order to pillage and plunder.  They're no Unsullied who mindlessly obey and do whatever.  They've got to be PAID and they've got to be fed.  And -- here comes Winter making food very scarce.

 

And it's not clear that the Dothrakhi are going to be happy staying around in Westeros. Especially in the North, they will need a serious wardrobe upgrade. And on a serious note, they would need to change from a nomadic lifestyle to an agrarian one, if they were to be granted lands and castles. Doesn't seem like there's an obvious end game for them. 

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Just now, JMJ said:

And it's not clear that the Dothrakhi are going to be happy staying around in Westeros. Especially in the North, they will need a serious wardrobe upgrade. And on a serious note, they would need to change from a nomadic lifestyle to an agrarian one, if they were to be granted lands and castles. Doesn't seem like there's an obvious end game for them. 

Agree, particularly about Winter.

 

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I say Cerci only controls Kingslanding and Casterly Rock.  This is only due to the Lannister army outside KL's gates.  She imagines she is ruler of the seven kingdoms but that will be corrected as news around the kingdom starts to pour in.  I'm still looking for her enemies to surround KL in season 7 where she is faced with defeat and decide to set off the remaining caches of wildfire.  Jamie will then have a decision to make :) 

We have all seen the vision where Dany walks into the throne room with either ash or snow falling (looks like snow to me).

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Cersei created a power vacuum, but she's Queen of nothing at the end.

She has KL, the Crownlands, and with luck, the Westerlands. Let's not forget Jaime is the head of House Lannister on the Show, he is no longer a member of the Kingsguard. And Jaime doesn't look happy about Cersei being the Queen. NCW has said there'll be friction between Jaime and Cersei next season.

So, basically, this will be the Show version of the Jaime-Cersei breakup.

The Reach, Dorne and the Iron Islands are fighting for Dany now. The North just became an independent Kingdom again, and the Vale will end up supporting them as well. The Riverlands are a ravaged mess, and they just had the head of House Frey murdered.

 

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