Cersei as queen - how is she accepted by the realm?

[lancerman]

Lets go region by region.

-The North just proclaimed Jon Snow King of the North. The Bolton's before them made enemies of the crown by harboring Sansa. The Northerners are pretty clearly viewing themselves as an independent Kingdom.

-The Riverlands just lost their LP and are in disarray after rebelling against the crown.

-The Vale just helped two enemies of the crown retake Winterfell.

-The Ironborn have one ruler saying he is going to give them the world, then children of the last lord took a huge chunk of their fleet and offered it to a usurper who wants to take the throne.

-Dorne openly rebelled against the Crown early in the season and has taken up with a conquerer.

-The Reach just had their queen murdered by Cersie and have also joined up with Dany.

-The Stormlands are in disarray after Stannis died and they also rebelled against the crown recently.

So you are talking about the Crownlands and Westerlands.

[Tyrek Lannister]

Cersei is done, she's in the situation akin to the Nazi Germany in 1945. 

Judging by ending scene with Daenerys and her 1000 ships her "rule" will be short lived, a couple of episodes at best.

[Ted Chang]

The OP asks about the 'realm'. By that I presume what is meant is the nobility, because the common people don't matter. They are too banged up from wars to rebel and who would lead them anyway? As for the nobility... well, she just murdered a chunk of them and Oop North she's as popular as ever. I reckon LF will head back south now that his marriage plans have been kicked into touch and he will probably trade the information for a return to the Small Council. As such Cersei would, for a while, be propped up by the Vale and her household troops. Frankly if Dany progresses at her customary sped Cersei could be in power for several more seasons but being as we know we are down to two I am guessing she will get eliminated at the end of next season, leaving the final season for the big clash of Living vs Dead.

[daemonTheBlack]

Cersei marrying Euron makes sense. The only way to balance out their forces against the Targaryens.

We know that Cersei will survive till season 8. She must get soldiers from somewhere.

[brightflame princess]

On 6/28/2016 at 3:16 AM, Lordsteve666 said:

So Cersei essentially exterminated all rivals and threats to her in Kings Landing, along with hundreds of poor bystanders who got caught in the explosion. 

Now im going to assume that Qyburns little sparrows have been out spreading word this is a terrible accident, a result of a forgotten wildfire stockpile going up. Otherwise there's no way the population would just roll over and accept her rule knowing she was to blame for that massacre. I imagine some form of Qyburn driven propaganda machine is in play to make it seem like she is free of blame. You'd have open rebellion and rioting on the streets if the people knew what she had a part in doing  

But....still there are some big problems. Tommen killed himself, why is nobody questioning this, plus he never got to the trial and was detained in the Red Keep. Cersei was on trial for crimes against the gods, and is now free to take the throne and nobody questions this either? 

I mean is she ruling as some tyrannical dictator now I assume, using her undead bodyguard to kill off and terrorise the opposition? I just seems a bit too convenient that she just walked in and took the throne, there must at least be some sort of rule of succession that must be followed. I can't see the population of Westeros just rolling over and accepting anyone as their new leader. 

I.think people will start to question it next season. To me, when cersei walks to the throne, the people look super unhappy. Every body knows what cersei did. She quickly snagged the throne, and there was no one to stop her at the time. It won't be long before she loses everything, and they are probably saving it for next season.

[Morgana Lannister]

On 6/28/2016 at 1:56 PM, It's ok I'm the Glass Guy said:

I think she created a massive power vacuum, and then claimed the throne before all the dust settled. There is already a succession issue because Tommen had no clear heir. Add to that the deaths of the Small Counsel who normally would have overseen unclear succession issues via great counsels or what not. Cersei did a very thorough job of eliminating anyone in Kings Landing with the power to oppose her. Having Frankenstein by her side certainly helps keep lesser players hesitant to speak or act. 

However, I think the consequences will catch up with Cersei next season big time. We've seen glimpses of two major problems already heading her way in the Dorne/Olenna/Dany alliance and the look Jamie had when he saw what she'd done. She may try to pass the Sept off as an accident, but Olenna (and Jamie) knows better. Do other houses know the same, or does the Queen of Thorns know only because she's more clever than most? 

If whoever is in charge of Casterly Rock and the westlands knows about Cersei's sparrow roast will they back her? The Reach and Dorne, the Vale and the North are enemies without much hope of peaceful relations in future. That leaves the Riverlands, the Crownlands, and whatever's left of the Stormlands, right? Oh, and the Iron Islands, who aren't likely to aid Cersei unless she marries Euron, who would be a worse husband than Robert. 

I think Cersei's reign will be shorter than Tommen's. 

Well, I totally agree with this power vacuum; she has no support at all, even if she manages to tell the people some story to explain the wildfire.  In any event, no one will believe her (too coincidental) but yes for now they fear the UnMountain I suppose and any more wildfire tricks.  However, Dany and her allies are way, way too strong for her.  I can't see Littlefinger or even any Lannister cousins etc in a hurry to support her militarily or anyone to be honest.  

The north might try and stay separate but they will have to get involve in the dynamics of it all sooner or later.  I took note when Tyrion warned Dany that if she allowed the Iron Islands to be an independent kingdom, others might follow.  I think this has to be the only thing keeping enough political plot pre White Walkers full on war in season 7.  I was and I guess still am a bit worried that there is no clear antagonist to Dany's invasion.  Not that I want her to fail or anything but basically I want stuff happening and to me Cersei is no longer in the game and KL would fall in like half an hour if attacked, so I guess the fight will have to be Dany versus everyone declaring independence and then the Wall will fall of course... but getting back to the topic at hand, no she hasn't got any power.  When I watch that scene it felt surreal.  I thought this would be a fitting one for the real end game because she is basically queen of nothing.  It is true that it is possible to conquer without any legitimate claim and maintain your reign by sheer terror but really she has not even got that; probably just Qyburn and Ser UnGregor.  Even her own guards will know she is too mad and unpredictably dangerous to stick around.

[Morgana Lannister]

On 6/30/2016 at 1:54 AM, Ted Chang said:

The OP asks about the 'realm'. By that I presume what is meant is the nobility, because the common people don't matter. They are too banged up from wars to rebel and who would lead them anyway? As for the nobility... well, she just murdered a chunk of them and Oop North she's as popular as ever. I reckon LF will head back south now that his marriage plans have been kicked into touch and he will probably trade the information for a return to the Small Council. As such Cersei would, for a while, be propped up by the Vale and her household troops. Frankly if Dany progresses at her customary sped Cersei could be in power for several more seasons but being as we know we are down to two I am guessing she will get eliminated at the end of next season, leaving the final season for the big clash of Living vs Dead.

Well in the books it is clear that LF's next plan seems to be holding the population at ransom with the grain he has been storing for the winter so I think even in the show his actions will be kind of more indirect.  He could try to play the situation to his advantage and he has now confessed that he wants the Iron Throne but backing this non-winning horse ain't going to advance his plans I don't think.  I don't think it would benefit him to be seen as involved with this mad mummer of a monarch and I still think that, despite Sansa's rejection etc, he is still going to side up with the North and Jon, even if to plant seed in Sansa's head or whatever.  Thing might change when he hears of Dany's arrival but in the meantime no, I reckon he will keep his head down but kind of back the North and take it from there.  He is not going to want his reputation tainted by supporting mad rulers.

[Ser Lepus]

Cersei doesn't rule the Seven Kingdoms. The Reach and Dorne are against her. The North will follow Jon and Sansa. Littlefinger has the Vale, and he won't follow Cersei (there is no profit in doing that now). The Iron Islands follow either Euron or Yara/Asha, and both want to join Dany. The Riverlands are in open rebellion against the Frey, whose leadership has been decimated by Arya...

The Stormlands won't follow Cersei now that there isn't a Baratheon king under her control. The Crownlords were Targaryen loyalists, so the Crownlands will join Dany as soon as she lands on Westeros.

Cersei can only count on the Westerlands, and only until Jamie gets tired of her and claims Casterly Rock for himself.

She controls the Red Fortress and King's Landing because she's the most important person left alive there, and nobody has more troops than her in the city now, so she can crown herself and sit on the throne and nobody will dare stop her, but sitting on the Iron Throne means nothing; right now, she's the queen of just King's Landing, not the queen of the Seven Kingdom.

But Cersei is still as politically oblivous as always: She doesn't notice the difference between using the symbols of power and wielding true power. The thinks that putting a crown one her head will really make her queen.

 

 

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[jbob]

She's a dictator. And it doesn't matter what other people think, in her mind she's got all the power. She's insane, has an army and rumours of wildfire held around the city that she may reignite if anyone tries to usurp her. Would you risk destroying all of King's Landing just to get to her?

[Morgana Lannister]

16 minutes ago, Ser Lepus said:

Cersei doesn't rule the Seven Kingdoms. The Reach and Dorne are against her. The North will follow Jon and Sansa. Littlefinger has the Vale, and he won't follow Cersei (there is no profit in doing that now). The Iron Islands follow either Euron or Yara/Asha, and both want to join Dany. The Riverlands are in open rebellion against the Frey, whose leadership has been decimated by Arya...

The Stormlands won't follow Cersei now that there isn't a Baratheon king under her control. The Crownlords were Targaryen loyalists, so the Crownlands will join Dany as soon as she lands on Westeros.

Cersei can only count on the Westerlands, and only until Jamie gets tired of her and claims Casterly Rock for himself.

She controls the Red Fortress and King's Landing because she's the most important person left alive there, and nobody has more troops than her in the city now, so she can crown herself and sit on the throne and nobody will dare stop her, but sitting on the Iron Throne means nothing; right now, she's the queen of just King's Landing, not the queen of the Seven Kingdom.

But Cersei is still as politically oblivous as always: She doesn't notice the difference between using the symbols of power and wielding true power. The thinks that putting a crown one her head will really make her queen.

 

 

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My thoughts exactly and agreed, Jaime won't support her for long.  In fact I expected to see the Valanquar scene playing out in the last episode after the look on his face when he rode into the burning city.  Still I think Tyrion will waste no time claiming Casterly Rock for himself though but I think either way that is moot for this purpose.  She only poses a thread to the peasants in KL.  She is no match to any of the players still in the game.

[Morgana Lannister]

2 minutes ago, jbob said:

She's a dictator. And it doesn't matter what other people think, in her mind she's got all the power. She's insane, has an army and rumours of wildfire held around the city that she may reignite if anyone tries to usurp her. Would you risk destroying all of King's Landing just to get to her?

But she is going to have a bit of a rude awakening when Dany lands there...  If it weren't for the rest of the prophecy I would be inclined to say, yes, that she would be prepared to let it all burn and burn herself in turn so that no one else can have it but of course someone has to strangle her...

[Ser Lepus]

1 minute ago, jbob said:

She's a dictator. And it doesn't matter what other people think, in her mind she's got all the power. She's insane, has an army and rumours of wildfire held around the city that she may reignite if anyone tries to usurp her. Would you risk destroying all of King's Landing just to get to her?

She's the dictator of King's Landing, nothing more. She doesn't have enough troops to control the Seven Kingdoms, or even to keep King's Landing for long. And I doubt Olenna or Ellaria or Euron give a rat ass about KL. Olenna and Ellaria want revenge, and Euron wants to control the Seven Kingdoms from the Iron Islands, pirate style.

[xjlxking]

1 minute ago, Ser Lepus said:

She's the dictator of King's Landing, nothing more. She doesn't have enough troops to control the Seven Kingdoms, or even to keep King's Landing for long. And I doubt Olenna or Ellaria or Euron give a rat ass about KL. Olenna and Ellaria want revenge, and Euron wants to control the Seven Kingdoms from the Iron Islands, pirate style.

She has the biggest army and wealth

Reach lost a large part of their army with the attack on kings landing. The north well...we all know. That only leaves Vale which is the only real big players

[Ser Lepus]

22 minutes ago, xjlxking said:

She has the biggest army and wealth

Reach lost a large part of their army with the attack on kings landing. The north well...we all know. That only leaves Vale which is the only real big players

I very much doubt that the High Sparrow allowed the whole army of the Reach to clutter into and around the Great Sept. He most probably told Tommen to send most of the Reach army away (what if Mace Tyrell had snapped out when he saw his son be marked .and had called his troops to kill the HS?)

And the Lannister troops have been fighting against the Northmen and the Riverlanders and Stannis's men. They have taken losses, and they are spread thin. If Cersei really had a huge Lannister army at her beck and call, do you think she would have been taken prisioner? paraded naked on the streets of KL? threatened by the HS, who sent men to capture and retrieve her again before the trial? If Cersei had a sizeable army she would have fought the Militant Faith, the same way she tried to make the Tyrells fight it; the Lannister army was hers, not Tommen's so she didn't need his permission in order to send it against the HS; if she didn't do it, it was because her army wasn't powerful enough to do so.

[xjlxking]

4 minutes ago, Ser Lepus said:

I very much doubt that the High Sparrow allowed the whole army of the Reach to clutter into and around the Great Sept. He most probably told Tommen to send most of the Reach army away (what if Mace Tyrell had snapped out when he saw his son be marked .and had called his troops to kill the HS?)

And the Lannister troops have been fighting against the Northmen and the Riverlanders and Stannis's men. They have taken losses, and they are spread thin. If Cersei really had a huge Lannister army at her beck and call, do you think she would have been taken prisioner? paraded naked on the streets of KL? threatened by the HS, who sent men to capture and retrieve her again before the trial? If Cersei had a sizeable army she would have fought the Militant Faith, the same way she tried to make the Tyrells fight it; the Lannister army was hers, not Tommen's so she didn't need his permission in order to send it against the HS; if she didn't do it, it was because her army wasn't powerful enough to do so.

When I said kings landing I meant the when Stannis attacked. Remember a large portion was the reach. 

Lannisters still have the biggest army. They have the biggest wealth. Last we heard, Rob had 20+k army and the lannisters had 2x that, one which was defeated by Rob when they tricked Jamie. Not to mention, with the wealth and title the crown has, they can raise more troops

 

also, she was taken prisoner and but it has nothing to do with army power. The army is not stationed in the city nor outside of it. 

 

Also, by fighting the faith militant you are fighting against the gods which I can assume is not easy to get people to do. Especially since Tommen was not willing to do anything despite being King. 

[Ser Lepus]

12 minutes ago, xjlxking said:

When I said kings landing I meant the when Stannis attacked. Remember a large portion was the reach. 

Lannisters still have the biggest army. They have the biggest wealth. Last we heard, Rob had 20+k army and the lannisters had 2x that, one which was defeated by Rob when they tricked Jamie. Not to mention, with the wealth and title the crown has, they can raise more troops

 

also, she was taken prisoner and but it has nothing to do with army power. The army is not stationed in the city nor outside of it. 

 

Also, by fighting the faith militant you are fighting against the gods which I can assume is not easy to get people to do. Especially since Tommen was not willing to do anything despite being King. 

She still needed the Tyrell army in order to attack the HS and rescue Loras and Margarey; if she had more soldiers left than the Tyrells did, why didn't she call for her own troops and send them against the HS? She had a perfect excuse to do so: The HS was holding prisioner her daughter-in-law. But she had to go and haggle with Mace and Olenna for their troops instead.

[xjlxking]

9 minutes ago, Ser Lepus said:

She still needed the Tyrell army in order to attack the HS and rescue Loras and Margarey; if she had more soldiers left than the Tyrells did, why didn't she call for her own troops and send them against the HS? She had a perfect excuse to do so: The HS was holding prisioner her daughter-in-law. But she had to go and haggle with Mace and Olenna for their troops instead.

Probably because Kevin was lord of Castely Rock and not her

also, she was not King. Remember they were trying to keep the king out of this.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

There is no succession.  After Tommen died Cersei was like "fuck it, it's mine now", commissioned a crown, and named Qyburn hand.  Then she had the KG grab enough random people to fill the hall and witness her coronation. Notice that there are soldiers lining the aisles and everyone looks pissed as hell.  No one is accepting her whatsoever.

Meanwhile Jaime just saw WTF happened and he's got a choice to make.  Either he tries to reason with / "fix" Cersei, he declares open war on her/kills her, or he commands the Lannister forces to return to the Westerlands and abandons her.  If either of the latter two happen, then she literally has no one except the Qyburn and the Kings Guard, and maybe the City Watch (though we don't even know who's in charge of that). And maybe that's enough to rule a few of the nearby minor houses out of fear.  But honestly she's got fuck all for support.  Dorne alone could de throne her.  The Tyrell army could have done it, but a lot of them probably got blown up with the Sept.  Neverthless, honey badger Cersei doesn't give a fuck. She has the throne and she'll wait for someone to tear her bodily off of it (probably Dany + Tyrion).  An alliance with Euron makes sense - though I seriously doubt she'd marry him.  She's done being some asshole's queen.  She'll let him fuck her though - cuz why not?  

The only weird thing, to me, was the fact that the Kings Guard (who AFAIK are totally unknown in the show except for the Mountain) apparently stayed loyal.  It made me wonder if maybe Qyburn made her another 6 zombies to wear the armor (that would be awesome).   

[A spoon of knife and fork]

2 hours ago, Ser Lepus said:

She still needed the Tyrell army in order to attack the HS and rescue Loras and Margarey; if she had more soldiers left than the Tyrells did, why didn't she call for her own troops and send them against the HS? She had a perfect excuse to do so: The HS was holding prisioner her daughter-in-law. But she had to go and haggle with Mace and Olenna for their troops instead.

Think about it for two seconds.  Why use your own army when you can use your enemies', and lose none of your own men?  And it's MUCH better for the Tyrells to take the blame from the common folk for killing the beloved High Sparrow.  It was a great plan, actually.  Too bad for everyone that the HS was a step ahead of them with the Margaery/Tommen gambit. 

Plus, as we are told, Kevan wasn't into using the Lannister troops.  He's worried about Lancel and about appearing treasonous (disobeying the King directly).  

[Ser Lepus]

13 hours ago, xjlxking said:

Probably because Kevin was lord of Castely Rock and not her

also, she was not King. Remember they were trying to keep the king out of this.

Unless somebody explicitly says otherwise, I will stick to the situation in the books: Cersei is the Lady of Casterly Rock and Kevan has no claim.

And the Tyrells are as closely related to Tommen as the Lannisters are: The Tyrells are the Queen's family, the Lannisters are the Queen Mother's family: The political implications are the same.

10 hours ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

Think about it for two seconds.  Why use your own army when you can use your enemies', and lose none of your own men?  And it's MUCH better for the Tyrells to take the blame from the common folk for killing the beloved High Sparrow.  It was a great plan, actually.  Too bad for everyone that the HS was a step ahead of them with the Margaery/Tommen gambit. 

Plus, as we are told, Kevan wasn't into using the Lannister troops.  He's worried about Lancel and about appearing treasonous (disobeying the King directly).  

Dude, Cersei just went nuclear on the Faith: She has burnt the HS, the Faith Militant, the Great Sept and a large part fo the clergy... do you really think she cared being blamed for the death of the HS?

Not to mention that Cersei would very much prefer to look strong by exerting her revenge by herself rather than looking irrelevant by letting the Tyrells do it.

And while Kevan wouldn't have allowed the city guard (Golden Cloaks) to be use against the HS, the Lannister troops are Cersei's.