Aegon's absence is really noticeable now

[Lord Varys]

5 hours ago, Lyin' Ned said:

Better payoff than Joffrey being responsible for the assassination attempt on Bran, Doran's stupid plan literally going down in flames.

Certainly not. Joff was already the man behind Bran's assassination in AGoT. The pieces were all there. A costly dagger used to murder Bran given to a completely incompetent assassin. Nobody but a person like Joffrey would have done that. Not Cersei, not Jaime, certainly not Tyrion, not Robert, and most certainly not a man working for Littlefinger. Who else could it be but Joffrey?

A lot of plans backfire or lead to nothing. There is nothing wrong with that.

[aFeastForDragons]

14 hours ago, Arrow of the Morning said:

Varys was ruined. All he did in Season 1 (The plot against Dany's life and the meeting with Illyrio in the dungeons) become nonsensical. Why he latter reveal he is a Targaryen supporter if he told Daenerys was pregnant and organized the life attempt against her? Now, he is just a boring character with no ulterior motivations and have a anachronistic agenda "for the realm".

 

This is the interesting thing about GOT. 99%+ of people watching the show who haven't read the books wouldn't even remember that Vary's wanted to kill Daenerys or if they do they would just brush it off without ever thinking for a second that there was originally another story. So they can get away with a complete 180 in the plot. 

 

Its mind boggling how they setup so much in S1 but abandoned it proving that they had no draft for the show. It was all a rush to the Red Wedding and after that they just went season to season without a plan. 

[The Fattest Leech]

6 hours ago, Ser Matt Dayne said:

For all you know Euron could decimate a fair part of Dany's army in the show before she even lands, so it's silly to say things have become predictable. You and I and everyone else simply have no clue about how things are going to converge into the endgame, and I think that sticks in the craw hard for some people for some bizarre reason,

Except, Euron doesn't have any ships and the Iron Islands are known for not having any/many trees. I highly doubt the islanders will be pulling down their homes to build ships when they have no way to rebuild them. Any supply ships they might have would all be converted into war ships.

[Desert Fox]

9 minutes ago, aFeastForDragons said:

 

This is the interesting thing about GOT. 99%+ of people watching the show who haven't read the books wouldn't even remember that Vary's wanted to kill Daenerys or if they do they would just brush it off without ever thinking for a second that there was originally another story. So they can get away with a complete 180 in the plot. 

 

Its mind boggling how they setup so much in S1 but abandoned it proving that they had no draft for the show. It was all a rush to the Red Wedding and after that they just went season to season without a plan. 

 

Clearly the intention of the show was originally to just do a pretty close adaptation of the books. They were pretty much entirely relying on ASIOAF for plot points in the beginning. I'm not sure they ever really considered they'd have to write three seasons basically on their own. I'm surprised they waited until the airing of S3 to actually ask GRRM how the series ended. That's pretty shocking to me. I wonder Martin's preference was that he kept his outline to himself and HBO basically had to force him when it became apparent that the show would beat the books the conclusion.

Most shows don't really plan seasons ahead. But most shows also don't just straight adapt a book series plot point by plot point. So they probably should have thought about what they were doing.

Though I still don't understand Vary's actions in the books/show in AGOT even if he was always backing fAegon. Him and Illyrio kept Dany alive for years just to murder her? Even if she were a backup or a stalking horse for Aegon, why murder her? I guess it's slightly less stupid than murdering the person you want to crown. But then it's most stupid to set her up with a massive army to invade. What if she wins?

Varys only makes sense if he's mostly out for his own gain and is trying to play all sides at once.

Though I think the show is fucking up by making Varys an unambiguous good guy. That's bs.

[CrypticWeirwood]

14 hours ago, Wilnova said:

fAegon feels so pointless to the whole story.

Consider how it would have played out against the FakeJon plot line revealed last episode.

[Stag_legion]

I so agree with the OP. On the show Dany has everything she needs win even before arriving westeros. In the books though Dany can't even count on Dorne since they are likely siding with Aegon and may end up fighting Dany. Tyrells also for the most part may remain with the Lannisters though a part of the reach might side with Aegon.

 

Where the show currently stands there is barely anything left to the story. They don't really need two more seasons, they could finish everything in five episodes. But we will end up with tons of filler episodes no doubt to give the series another 2 seasons.

[Rex999]

Aegon's absence is really noticeable now

Noticeable to Aegons fanboys but I did not notice or care about his character at all. I imagine a lot of show watchers and quite a few book readers feel the same way

this is one of the few times that I support A major change to the books

introducing Aegon so late into the story was one of martins rare missteps and a mistake that should have nerver happened

Having some winy teen come out of nowhere towards the end of the story and all of sudden expect me to care that he is A secret targaryen is ridiculous 

it was a silly plot device and glad D&D did not add it to the show

[Ser Matt Dayne]

3 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Except, Euron doesn't have any ships and the Iron Islands are known for not having any/many trees. I highly doubt the islanders will be pulling down their homes to build ships when they have no way to rebuild them. Any supply ships they might have would all be converted into war ships.

Yet this is a tv show, and it's fair to say logic is going to be leaped and Euron is going to have a massive fleet. He's hardly going to turn up and say ah yeah, I lied, I didn't realise the enormity of the task.

[The Fattest Leech]

5 minutes ago, Ser Matt Dayne said:

Yet this is a tv show, and it's fair to say logic is going to be leaped and Euron is going to have a massive fleet. He's hardly going to turn up and say ah yeah, I lied, I didn't realise the enormity of the task.

Thank you 

[PirateVergo]

20 minutes ago, Rex999 said:

Aegons fanboys 

He's only been in one book yet he's already more interesting than Daenerys in 5.

[Rex999]

2 hours ago, PirateVergo said:

He's only been in one book yet he's already more interesting than Daenerys in 5.

well in fairness its hard to make Dany interesting when all she does is sit around in meereen and fantasize about how awesome this guy is lol

http://orig05.deviantart.net/ac12/f/2013/141/0/0/daario_naharis_portrait_by_kittanee-d663gs9.png

I still dont know what book Dany was thinking when she fell for this clown......

 

 

[iggymcfly]

4 hours ago, Stag_legion said:

I so agree with the OP. On the show Dany has everything she needs win even before arriving westeros. In the books though Dany can't even count on Dorne since they are likely siding with Aegon and may end up fighting Dany. Tyrells also for the most part may remain with the Lannisters though a part of the reach might side with Aegon.

 

Where the show currently stands there is barely anything left to the story. They don't really need two more seasons, they could finish everything in five episodes. But we will end up with tons of filler episodes no doubt to give the series another 2 seasons.

Because once Dany defeats the Lannisters and wins the Iron Throne, that's it, right? That completes the Song of Ice and Fire and that's it? There's no say war against the dead to the north happening in the heart of winter that's as supposed to be the real focus of the story all along which we haven't even gotten to yet?

 

I mean, I agree that Dany's a little overpowered to the point that it might feel a little anticlimactic when she wins the Iron Throne unless Euron's supernatural powers come into play, but to say that you can wrap up the whole series in 5 episodes now? Uh, what exactly do you think this story is about anyway?

[Neds Secret]

1 hour ago, Rex999 said:

well in fairness its hard to make Dany interesting when all she does is sit around in meereen and fantasize about how awesome this guy is lol

http://orig05.deviantart.net/ac12/f/2013/141/0/0/daario_naharis_portrait_by_kittanee-d663gs9.png

I still dont know what book Dany was thinking when she fell for this clown......

 

 

Goodness gracious me, how could Dany fall for THAT GUY, he looks rather creepy there doesn't he

[Stag_legion]

57 minutes ago, iggymcfly said:

Because once Dany defeats the Lannisters and wins the Iron Throne, that's it, right? That completes the Song of Ice and Fire and that's it? There's no say war against the dead to the north happening in the heart of winter that's as supposed to be the real focus of the story all along which we haven't even gotten to yet?

 

I mean, I agree that Dany's a little overpowered to the point that it might feel a little anticlimactic when she wins the Iron Throne unless Euron's supernatural powers come into play, but to say that you can wrap up the whole series in 5 episodes now? Uh, what exactly do you think this story is about anyway?

I don't think GRRM ever said the whole series was about the war against the others/White walkers. I only remember him saying that the others are the the biggest threat to westeros, but that doesn't mean they will be the focus of the series.

 

anyway with the pace of the show this season I could totally see the show finishing in 5 episodes, because the war with the Others will boil down to one full episode of battle and then they will be done with it similar to the winterfell battle.

 

I personally think the story (ASOIAF that is, GOT is whatever D&D make it) is mainly about the dysfunctional feudal system of the seven kingdoms and how it affects individuals. In the series Others are mainly a means to explore the effects of dire situations on the said feudal system, similar to how the plague transformed medieval society.

I understand many show watchers and even book readers might be fascinated with the supernatural aspects of the series (dragons &the others), but I m personally mostly interested in the social exploration of the series and the supernatural only serves to create interesting situations, much like good science fiction.

 

This is also why I have come to dislike GOT. At this point D&D don't give a shit about the politics and sociological aspect of the series, for them its all about championing their protagonists, showing "bad ass scenes" and fan service.

 

[Balerion06]

I like Aegon, mostly because of how much of a wrench he throws into everyone's plans. He lands in westeros and completely destabilizes the hard won Lannister-Tyrell rule, is going to force Doran to quickly change his Targ plans, and is probably going to force Littlefinger to improvise thanks to a suddenly changed political landscape. In many ways, he's the hero parallel to Euron's villain, a character who comes in the second act and completely hijacks the narrative.

Most importantly, Aegon's role as an antagonist to Dany automatically makes her conquest of westeros a lot more morally ambiguous, since she'll be fighting family and will be forced to question whether her identity as the Targaryen heir is worthwhile. Show Dany's conquest of Westeros is going to be steam rolling over Teddy Bear Euron and Sad Soccer Mom Cersei

[sweetsunray]

12 hours ago, Desert Fox said:

Him and Illyrio kept Dany alive for years just to murder her?

Dany and Viserys didn't live with Illyrio for years and years. They traveled the free cities for close to nine years, and only ended up at Illyrio's several months before Dany was wedded to Khal Drogo. Obviously they wanted her out of the way and for both of them to get lost, but without making their hands dirty. Remember that Illyrio explains to Tyrion how Illyrio and Varys developed an MO not of "stealing secrets to sell them" but simply discovering them and letting them be where they are. Keeping King Robert's eyes and mind on the beggar king and his sister distracted Robert or anybody else from ever even finding out about Aegon. Only when it became clear that Dany actually survived her stay with Drogo, became a Khaleesi of great influence on her husband, and was carrying a child, did they decide to have her murdered. But then she proved to  have even more mettle, showed up at Qarth with 3 baby dragons, while Aegon was almost off age. Dany became interesting for Varys and Illyrio now to help Aegon's legitimacy and restoration as his bride. So, Illyrio sent ships to Qarth to get her back to Pentos and have her live there again to propose a new marriage scheme to her. But Jorah convinced her to sail in the other direction and get her own army which led to her conquest of Slaver's Bay.

[nedstarksdetachedhead]

It's kinda become the battle of good vs evil now. It's not grey like how it's supposed to be. 

[StarkofWinterfell]

it would be hilarious if Aegon is the one to sit the IT in the end in the books and since he was cut from the show, D&D would have to scramble to find someone. Maybe introduce him in last episode haha

[Masha]

On 6/30/2016 at 2:17 PM, SuperMario said:

There is a difference between abandoning a plot and not outright explaining every aspect of a storyline. Not explaining who attempted the assassination on Bran did not affect Bran or Joffrey's storylines. It also got Cat more involved as she ended up going to King's Landing and later kidnapping Tyrion, which got a lot of pieces moving. Just because the characters in the story did not know who outright attempted to kill Bran does not mitigate that storyline.

I do agree with you that Quentyn's storyline was lackluster and ultimately amounted to nothing, but that was not all of Doran's plan. Again, he is playing a long game.

But you can't compare not explaining who attempted to assassinate Bran to Gendry and his endless rowing or The Iron Bank of Braavos fizzling out. There are others as well, but I don't want to argue about it anymore as we are off topic from the original post.

Quentyn was sum total of Doran's plan. At this point, Arianne's travelogue is an ultimate stop-gap while he is getting desperate waiting for Quentyn. 

Probably, next, Arianne manages to kill herself, after attaching herself to fAegon, and that will prompt Doran either to die of broken heart or withdraw his alliance from Targs.

There is no long game there after both his children as killed, and while one of them is already gone, second is trying her best to get there.

The only purpose of fAegon plot was to bring some conflict to KL after Faith Militant story and most likely to bring grey plague to Westeros due to JonCon. I sincerely doubt that fAegon survives long enough to Dany to meet with him or even be on the same continent.

Perhaps, D&D can play Varys plot by having him desert Dany for Jon once he learns of Jon's true heritage. 

[StarkofWinterfell]

5 minutes ago, Masha said:

Quentyn was sum total of Doran's plan. At this point, Arianne's travelogue is an ultimate stop-gap while he is getting desperate waiting for Quentyn. 

Probably, next, Arianne manages to kill herself, after attaching herself to fAegon, and that will prompt Doran either to die of broken heart or withdraw his alliance from Targs.

There is no long game there after both his children as killed, and while one of them is already gone, second is trying her best to get there 

What about Trystane? He's still alive. Are you forgetting him?