Dany's Golden Fleece Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 5 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said: Yes, the parallels between Danny and Jon are huge, they started from the same place (a bastard and a beggar queen) and they will utimately end in the same place Yep pretty much. Its clear that the show is pushing Jon= Ice and Daenerys = Fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nothatso Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 I've never agreed with this notion of "Sansa as Elizabeth I". To me, the similarities appear minimal, questionable, and largely superficial. One of the distinguishing characteristics of Elizabeth I was that she never married (Sansa already did once in the books and twice in the show) and learned not to marry or cede power to a husband by watching her older sister make those mistakes. Sansa has no such experience teaching her about how to handle power in a political marriage as a female ruler. I also in general don't think she's well groomed to lead. I don't understand why people think that her hanging around some people who are good at lying automatically equates to knowing how to rule, there's more to it than that. In the show she can't even voice her own opinion without being asked for it. Elizabeth I was one of the greatest monarchs in English history and I have a hard time thinking somebody so weak-willed as Sansa is comparable. Whether or not she gets to that point remains to be seen, but she has a long way to go. Elizabeth also was the 5th and final ruler of her dynasty, the dynasty that ended the Wars of the Roses by unifying two warring houses. We haven't even had the end to our "Wars of the Roses" equivalent yet. I do think the Dany as Henry VII and Jon as Elizabeth of York idea is a tighter fit (and fAegon as Perkin Warbeck!), even if the story doesn't end in exactly the same way, such as with one or both of them dying. Lastly, I don't really see Sansa as any more of an underdog than either of the above characters. She was raised a noblewoman of a prestigious house in relative comfort and nearly became Queen of all Westeros. Yes, she's had a hard time of it since then (moreso in the show than the books), but her life was never put in the same danger that Dany or Jon's were and she never had to work for what she has in the books. Typically in the books she's just a passive observer. In the show she at least made attempt to be proactive, but still proved incapable of offering solutions to problems she identified (or at least chose not to). Just because readers or viewers believe she deserves a better life, doesn't mean she's earned the right to be queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 2 hours ago, Dany's Golden Fleece said: Yep pretty much. Its clear that the show is pushing Jon= Ice and Daenerys = Fire. I think that the point of the whole story is hope and that two orphans can rose by the destiny to the highest social positions and save the world, the other characters in apparence they have their own stories but as the story progresses and if you look closely you can see that they are there just to serve the main characters (with a little bit of camouflage), which leads me to conclude that it will be an iron throne at the end and Jon and Daenerys on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjlxking Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 4 hours ago, Dany's Golden Fleece said: Yep pretty much. Its clear that the show is pushing Jon= Ice and Daenerys = Fire. Nah i think that the show is pushing a agenda to make it look like it's mostly Dany. But in truth, Jon is ice and fire. He is the byproduct of the house of fire and ice meeting together in the book, Rheagar said about Aegon that he is the song of ice and fire which likely implies that it's one person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blckp Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 16 hours ago, xjlxking said: Nah i think that the show is pushing a agenda to make it look like it's mostly Dany. But in truth, Jon is ice and fire. He is the byproduct of the house of fire and ice meeting together in the book, Rheagar said about Aegon that he is the song of ice and fire which likely implies that it's one person nah its pretty clear who is ice and who is fire, what it means a song ice = night king fire= daenerys a song= tale of ice vs fire a song of ice and fire is epic tale champion of ice/others vs champion of fire/r'llhor daenerys vs nights king ptwp azor ahai is champion of fire from religion of fire heart god for some reason people thinks starks = ice, because they lives in the cold north, wildings are more ice than starks then or martells fire rather than targaryens , doubt daenerys/fire and nights king/real ice would have kid together, its battle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRU Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Yes but it is a Song of Fire and Ice.... not a Song of Fire versus Ice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRU Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 This is how it's going to end. There will be a final showdown in the throne room. Cersei and the Mountain vs Dany, Jon, Tyrion will be there too ...and of course the dragons. Jon will try to do the honourable/stupid thing and try and take Cersei alive. Cersei will get Jon in a deathgrip. Danny will unleash dragon fire on them both. Cersei will be vapourised but Jon will be unharmed ( but naked of course). Danny will realise who he is and drop to her knee. An exhausted and naked Jon Snow will sit down on the Throne ( ouch!) . Well that's my guess anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blckp Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 17 hours ago, GRU said: Yes but it is a Song of Fire and Ice.... not a Song of Fire versus Ice by your logic dance of dragons should be named dragon vs dragon, every versus should be named vs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon and Dany Targaryen Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 On 6/30/2016 at 3:23 PM, amyzing1 said: *spoiler/theory* Does anyone see that Dany's army is full of southerners and winter is here? Won't KL be covered in snow and how will her half-naked armies battle in that freezing cold? This is where I think GRRM's poetic justice comes in. Euron Greyjoy joins forces, and his mighty fleet, with Cercei and takes the battle to the sea, against Dany. All of these seasons she has been raising one hell of an army, 100K+, to never have them set foot in KL because there will be an epic naval battle at sea. And, we may only be left with a few boats and dragons left. Thoughts? Wouldn't that be one of GRRM's ironies of building her army to never let them fight for her? We also come back to Dany's vision of the Red Keep in ruins and snow falling. It's a good possibility that winter will cause a major issue for both sides. Cersei may very well also decide to go down with the ship and take everyone (all the commoners she always hated) with her.. set off whatever stockpiles of wildfire are left. I don't see her ever leaving King's Landing alive. Jaime may be left with making another painful and conflicting decision! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRU Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 1 hour ago, blckp said: by your logic dance of dragons should be named dragon vs dragon, every versus should be named vs No...It's not called a Dance of dragons and dragons. If it was, then your extension of my logic would be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfin Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 20 hours ago, xjlxking said: Yeah, they don't want to "get this show over with". It's their biggest hit in history. The show has propelled everyone that was involved with it including HBO and GRRM. HBO would like nothing better if they can just keep making thrones episodes. In fact, it's why they are open to the idea of having a a prequel of sorts listen to their interviews, they respect both the author and source materials but they too had a vision and no amount of money will change that. You don't expect a GRRM to suddenly change his tune and listen to his fans or publisher so have that same respect for DnD. The Sopranos are the biggest hit my man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilletteMace Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 btw, i think chances are extremely low for sansa to sit on the throne. she has no skill beyond the ability to suffer and attracting humiliation. shes pretty dumb overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 On 4. 7. 2016 at 4:13 AM, blckp said: nah its pretty clear who is ice and who is fire, what it means a song ice = night king fire= daenerys a song= tale of ice vs fire a song of ice and fire is epic tale champion of ice/others vs champion of fire/r'llhor daenerys vs nights king ptwp azor ahai is champion of fire from religion of fire heart god for some reason people thinks starks = ice, because they lives in the cold north, wildings are more ice than starks then or martells fire rather than targaryens , doubt daenerys/fire and nights king/real ice would have kid together, its battle Do you know that song of ice and fire could be easiy interpretated as love story. Song is harmony, tenderness, love. We got Rhaegar and Lyanna story and now possibly Jon and Daenerys. Of course your pure hatred for him is cute but it's a possibility. Starks - sword named Ice, named Kings of Winter. Targaryens Blood of Old Valyria, dragons, fire. Ice and Fire could be easily intepretated as this Starks and Targaryens. In fact pact between them is called that. Alliance between Starks and Targaryens. Guess who wants to get married... Dany who is a Targaryen and who is the best option...Jon who is half Stark. Who can fullfill this pact Jon and Dany. Most prominent Houses and George spend too much time for them for them not to be considered Ice and Fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragen Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 On 04.07.2016. at 4:13 AM, blckp said: nah its pretty clear who is ice and who is fire, what it means a song ice = night king fire= daenerys a song= tale of ice vs fire a song of ice and fire is epic tale champion of ice/others vs champion of fire/r'llhor daenerys vs nights king ptwp azor ahai is champion of fire from religion of fire heart god for some reason people thinks starks = ice, because they lives in the cold north, wildings are more ice than starks then or martells fire rather than targaryens , doubt daenerys/fire and nights king/real ice would have kid together, its battle If Starks are not Ice then why pact between Starks and Targaryens is called Pact of Ice and Fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blckp Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 16 hours ago, Cragen said: If Starks are not Ice then why pact between Starks and Targaryens is called Pact of Ice and Fire? who called them ice and fire? except some reasons fans decided starks ice cause they lives the north Quote Starks - sword named Ice, named Kings of Winter. so sword named ice= starks ice? or someone was named winter king? makes them ice? lol wtf grey kings,greenhand kings red kings barrow king marsh kings storm kings so on so on means storm,etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragen Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 6 minutes ago, blckp said: who called them ice and fire? except some reasons fans decided starks ice cause they lives the north so sword named ice= starks ice? or someone was named winter king? makes them ice? lol wtf Pact was signed between Starks and Targs, prior to Dance of Dragons, where Starks give support to Rhaenyra in exchange Targ princess need to merry into house Stark, Starks fulfill they part of deal, but Targ princess didn't marry into house Stark. Edit: It's from TWOIAF I can find quote if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blckp Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 16 hours ago, Cragen said: Pact was signed between Starks and Targs, prior to Dance of Dragons, where Starks give support to Rhaenyra in exchange Targ princess need to merry into house Stark, Starks fulfill they part of deal, but Targ princess didn't marry into house Stark. Edit: It's from TWOIAF I can find quote if you want. so who called them ice and fire? find it lol nothing special about starks, they don't have blood of ice dragon or ice dragons or something ice, nor descent of real ice the others , greenseer is nothing special only for starks , they're just normals who lives in the north along with other dozens house unlike targaryens who has special superpowers only targaryens can do(dragon dreams,heat resistant,telepathic connection with dragons ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragen Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 21 minutes ago, blckp said: so who called them ice and fire? Quote Let it be added that Lord Cregan Stark reaped many rewards for his loyal support of King Aegon III . . . even if it was not a royal princess marrying into his family, as had been agreed in the Pact of Ice and Fire made when Prince Jacaerys Velaryon had flown to Winterfell upon his dragon. Starks and Targs themselves and maesters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragen Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 24 minutes ago, blckp said: so who called them ice and fire? find it lol nothing special about starks, they don't have blood of ice dragon or ice dragons or something ice, nor descent of real ice the others , greenseer is nothing special only for starks , they're just normals who lives in the north along with other dozens house unlike targaryens who has special superpowers only targaryens can do(dragon dreams,heat resistant,telepathic connection with dragons ) You should read World of Ice and Fire. Based on what happened after Long Night, Starks have crucial role in defeating WW. Show runners decides to cut northern magic, except of Bran and his magic is cut also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragen Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 43 minutes ago, blckp said: so who called them ice and fire? find it lol nothing special about starks, they don't have blood of ice dragon or ice dragons or something ice, nor descent of real ice the others , greenseer is nothing special only for starks , they're just normals who lives in the north along with other dozens house unlike targaryens who has special superpowers only targaryens can do(dragon dreams,heat resistant,telepathic connection with dragons ) Here is another quote where Starks are connected with fire and ice. Quote "To Winterfell we pledge the faith of Greywater. Hearth and harvest and we yield up to you, my lord. Our swords and spears and arrows are yours to command. Grant mercy to our weak, help to our helpless, and justice to all, and we shall never fail you." — Both "I swear it by earth and water." — Jojen "I swear it by bronze and iron." — Meera "We swear it by ice and fire." — Both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.