No Teleprtation or Twins, Just Time

[OceanRunner]

I really dislike hearing people exclaim how confused they are with teleporting on game of thrones, as well as theories that varys must be a twin at the end of episode 10 because he was just in Dorne and is now with Dany......like the scenes we see of characters aren't going on at the same time...instead for example we see Cersie crowned on the throne, this scene is few days/weeks (past) from the scene with Ollena in Dorne where she sees Varys which is a few weeks or months (past) from the scene of Dany's fleet where vary now stands behind her. Make sense?

Just because a scene cuts between sets of events or character doesn't mean it's at the same time - LF can "teleport" because there is time in between certain scenes whether it's in the same episode or not

think a song of ice and fire: what we are watching is simply a story and or song being told/sung - these events have already unfolded and like any story you only focus on the important bits not the pets where they live their off book lives, where they sleep and eat and take time to get ready for the day....each cut we see in one episode at varying times on a time line that ultimately will come together once characters end up in the same place face to face - no teleportation or secret twins 

 

[ShadowKitteh]

I agree. 

It seems these people marathoned "24" too many times.

[wolfsbae]

I completely agree. I don't understand why it's so hard to grasp.

[xjlxking]

I agree. People think the passage of time is similar for every scene and episode.

The thing is though, it can be considered a problem when it becomes very messy. This started around season 6 but was evident even in season 1-5.

 

[Darksky]

Some people need to be spoonfed such things, so they'd need every scene to start out with '3 weeks later,' 2 months later' etc timestamps added. But that'd just be silly.

[xjlxking]

14 minutes ago, Darksky said:

Some people need to be spoonfed such things, so they'd need every scene to start out with '3 weeks later,' 2 months later' etc timestamps added. But that'd just be silly.

Honestly mostly everyone who did complain about it brushed it off. Then there was that 1-3% of people who just hate the show; you know them, the ones who vote 1 on every episode since season 1 episode 1. Those people jumped on the "teleporting" crap to justify why they rate writing a 1

[MagicClownfish]

The passage of time didn't confuse me here. What confused me is why Varys went back to Essos to then return to Westeros. Upon closer inspection, you can see the Dorne ships among the fleet and then it makes sense that they must have already passed Dorne in this scene and just picked him and the ships up there, but at first glance you assume they are on open water between Essos and Westeros, or maybe even still leaving Slaver's Bay.

Then there's also the fact that when Varys was in Dorne he was suddenly wearing different clothes. On first inspection, before even seeing him back at the fleet, you assume that this change of clothes is to portray a different outlook on things (especially since it's in the same episode as Cersei's change of outfit which certainly does portray a character change). But then BAM he's back on the ship in his other clothes. Again, it's only afterwards that I realised the different clothes were to show his support to the Targaryans and to go along with his "fire and blood" dialogue. That's something an observant viewer would normally spot immediately but sometimes when watching with family and explaining things I can miss such subtleties.

So, it's not the time passing that's confusing. At least not to me. The problem is that the scenes are revealed in such a way that "teleporting" or "twins" only requires you to make one assumption versus the multiple assumptions required for what they actually want to portray, namely: "time passes" + "they already passed Dorne" + "that outfit was a one time thing to show his support" + "it's apparently important to show all of Daenerys followers in one scene when we've already had a scene like that in every episode so far".

So the only way to make sense of it is to first assume what their intent is and to then think away the apparent logical plotholes to make that work.

[Dragon in the North]

1 hour ago, MagicClownfish said:

The passage of time didn't confuse me here. What confused me is why Varys went back to Essos to then return to Westeros. Upon closer inspection, you can see the Dorne ships among the fleet and then it makes sense that they must have already passed Dorne in this scene and just picked him and the ships up there, but at first glance you assume they are on open water between Essos and Westeros, or maybe even still leaving Slaver's Bay.

Varys brought Tyrell and Dorne ships back to Meereen to assist in bringing Dany's army to Westeros. When he and Tyrion departed, Varys told him that he would return.

[ShadowKitteh]

5 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

Varys brought Tyrell and Dorne ships back to Meereen to assist in bringing Dany's army to Westeros. When he and Tyrion departed, Varys told him that he would return.

If you're gonna hate-watch the show, you should watch it. Not type/watch/type/read thread/type/listen to show.... /glance up/type... you're missing a lot.

[Rory Snow]

On 7/13/2016 at 7:13 PM, MagicClownfish said:

The passage of time didn't confuse me here. What confused me is why Varys went back to Essos to then return to Westeros. Upon closer inspection, you can see the Dorne ships among the fleet and then it makes sense that they must have already passed Dorne in this scene and just picked him and the ships up there, but at first glance you assume they are on open water between Essos and Westeros, or maybe even still leaving Slaver's Bay.

They may well have been leaving Slaver's Bay, not sure we know one way or another for certain but in fact that would be my guess. When Varys left Meereen, Dany hadn't taken the Master's armada nor had she aligned with the Greyjoys. Even with that, Tyrion guessed they might just barely have enough ships to transport everything. So for all Varys knew he needed to bring the Dornish & Tyrell navies back to Meereen first in order to get the invasion of Westeros started.

The more curious thing to me was why was Varys standing in such a position of importance with Dany aboard ship as if he were at the level of Jorah, Dario or Ser Barriston? She had never even met him up to that point. No doubt they spoke off screen and Tyrion vouched for him but still.. 

[Cron]

On 7/12/2016 at 3:48 PM, xjlxking said:

I agree. People think the passage of time is similar for every scene and episode.

The thing is though, it can be considered a problem when it becomes very messy. This started around season 6 but was evident even in season 1-5.

 

Yeah, I think I basically agree with what you are saying about messiness.

I don't stress about the "time" issues, and I DO think most of it can be roughly reconciled, BUT...

...I have a strong suspicion that if we were to sit down and map out timelines for everyone involved, they would not match up perfectly.

I have a feeling GRRM and his assistants (my understanding is that he has assistants to help him keep track of a variety of things, including stuff like this) are a lot more meticulous about timelines matching up than the show runners are.

But it's not a big deal to me.

I love GOT, but if I were to make a list of complaints this issue would not crack the top 10 (i've not rated very many episodes, cuz I've not been around here for very long, but looking back I think if I were to re-watch and grade very episode, they would ALL be 8, 9 or 10)

[Rory Snow]

14 minutes ago, Cron said:

Yeah, I think I basically agree with what you are saying about messiness.

I don't stress about the "time" issues, and I DO think most of it can be roughly reconciled, BUT...

...I have a strong suspicion that if we were to sit down and map out timelines for everyone involved, they would not match up perfectly.

I have a feeling GRRM and his assistants (my understanding is that he has assistants to help him keep track of a variety of things, including stuff like this) are a lot more meticulous about timelines matching up than the show runners are.

But it's not a big deal to me.

Totally agree, it can get a touch messy at times BUT what's the alternative? We watch while it takes months for Varys to bring the necessary ships back to Meereen, load 1000's of Unsullied, Dothraki, horses and supplies onto the fleet and then sail back across the sea to Westeros? Yawn... no thanks. It's a tv show, there are time constraints, 1 hour a week, 10 hours per season. I'll happily look the other way on a couple time inconsistencies in order to keep things moving forward.

[NutBurz]

It´s literaly impossible to "map" anyone´s movements in asoiaf (or any fictional story that doesn´t provide an in-scale map of the globe) and "prove the creators wrong". Any map anyone has of Planetos is a rough approximation which the creator can claim to not be precise, and any math made cannot count every single aspect of a long trip, you necessarily have to use median values, and ignore enviromental effects. Two trips don´t take the exact same amount of time even in modern aviation, which renders most of the interferences as good as neutral. Boat trips, marches, horse rides, there is not way a reasonable person can possibly claim to "know better" than an author about these things, because any conclusion they can make is easily refuted by things like "they were tired that day, it was too windy, there was no wind, it was too hot, this map is not exactly right, they had too much luggage" etc...

GRRM, aware of this, wisely made it fairly known that he purposedly ommits measuring from his story because it´s pointless, but people don´t seem to want to hear it.

[Darkstream]

Clearly, everyone defending this aspect of the show doesn't understand how these things work, or will just blindly defend any aspect of the show, just because. Varys' trip would have taken approximately two years. What was happening in Weisseros during this time? Are you guys claiming that this much time has past in the story, and everyone was just sitting around picking their nose this whole time? It would be perfectly acceptable for Varys to be in Slavers Bay in one scene, and be in Weisseros the next scene, if  this passage of time was acurately represented.

This thread is such a ridiculous defence of the show. If these things don't bother you, or disrupt your enjoyment of the show, that's perfectly fine, but to deny that these issues exist is just pure ignorance, or willful obstanance. Honey potting at its most extreme.

GRRM may have a character in one location, and be somewhere else in the next chapter, but the travel time, although not shown on page, is consistently represented by the events that have occurred in everyone's story. This is not the case in d$d's ridiculous story compilation of plot points.

[NutBurz]

2 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

Varys' trip would have taken approximately two years.

Let me guess, you think he was in mereen, went to dorne, went back to mereen and is now sailing to westeros again?

[JonSnow4President]

For the love of the Seven, no one is complaining about time jumps in and of themselves.  The first episode spans at least a month of time, but no one complains about that jump because it doesn't create conflicts in storylines. I can forgive a little bit (note the words little bit) of fudging with timelines/ slightly non/chronological viewing, but when Kings Landing happens within a couple weeks, while Varys circumnavigates the world, Jon and Sansa go on the great Northern tour, Arya travels across the narrow sea and well inland to the twins, Jaime crosses the continent a couple times, etc, it gets disjointing.  

The teleporting claims are almost always just pointed to as yet another flaw in the nonsensical writing, rather than as the sole reason for the writing being nonsensical.  There are far bigger writing crimes committed. 

[Meera of Tarth]

I found extremely anticlimatic to see Varys in two different continents in the same episode.

I didn't find it confusing, because I understand and have been accustomed to telerpoting in the show. But in the last episode thsi aspect was so badly done, because the scene with Dany was really amazing, and then you just see Varys, who have been in Dorne some minutes before.

I suppose time passed after Cersei's burning, but I wouldn't have brought Varys to Essos again to then return to Westeros.

[Darkstream]

38 minutes ago, NutBurz said:

Let me guess, you think he was in mereen, went to dorne, went back to mereen and is now sailing to westeros again?

What does it matter where they are now? The entire time line is preposterous. First you have Theon and his abusive sister travel from the II's to SB. A year and a half journey, then Varys, who is in SB when they get their goes to Dorne, at least another year. He is a year away from Danny, so even if he meets her half way, or whatever ridiculous story you want to make up out of thin air, that's still another six months. So tell me, was the battle of bastards a three year war? What has been going on in Weisseros this whole time? Like seriously, I can't even take you seriously at all. No matter how you twist everything around to meet your wishes, your argument is pure

[Meera of Tarth]

23 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said:

For the love of the Seven, no one is complaining about time jumps in and of themselves.  The first episode spans at least a month of time, but no one complains about that jump because it doesn't create conflicts in storylines. I can forgive a little bit (note the words little bit) of fudging with timelines/ slightly non/chronological viewing, but when Kings Landing happens within a couple weeks, while Varys circumnavigates the world, Jon and Sansa go on the great Northern tour, Arya travels across the narrow sea and well inland to the twins, Jaime crosses the continent a couple times, etc, it gets disjointing.  

The teleporting claims are almost always just pointed to as yet another flaw in the nonsensical writing, rather than as the sole reason for the writing being nonsensical.  There are far bigger writing crimes committed. 

Yes, I never complain about time jumps and despite I think sometimes teleporting is sometimes silly, the only time that have been extremely forced was on 6.10 with Varys. It's not that people think there are two Varys, but IMO it ruined the best scene from the episode; the one I had been waiting for so long.

[NutBurz]

32 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

and then you just see Varys, who have been in Dorne some minutes before.

They are near Dorne. That´s why he´s there, to show the audience that they´re in westeros. They went to Dorne without him, to meet him there. The only thing the show skipped was Daenerys´ ship travel, like so many other uneventful ship travels.

 

12 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

What does it matter where they are now? The entire time line is preposterous. First you have Theon and his abusive sister travel from the II's to SB. A year and a half journey, then Varys, who is in SB when they get their goes to Dorne, at least another year. He is a year away from Danny, so even if he meets her half way, or whatever ridiculous story you want to make up out of thin air, that's still another six months. So tell me, was the battle of bastards a three year war? What has been going on in Weisseros this whole time? Like seriously, I can't even take you seriously at all. No matter how you twist everything around to meet your wishes, your argument is pure

What makes you think Varys was in Mereen when Theon got there? He left much before even Daenerys arrived.

They don´t have to meet halfway, that would be a waste of effort from every single ship that´s already in westeros.

You can stay in your oblivious arrogance however much you´d like, I´d only recommend you spend your time with something more appropriate to your great intellectual capabilities.