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The fate of the faith


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What happens to the faith of the seven now? The HS and what looks like a bunch of "cardinals" and septas plus all (?) the faith militant were blown up. The main cathedral/center of faith was destroyed as well. Would the people view this as punishment by the seven or proof of their weakness/nonexistence? At least the red God can occasionally resurrect ppl...

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There is the stary sept in oldtown - where Sam is, but not the Maester Building, which should not be the lighthouse - which used to be the seat of the high Septon before the Sept in KL

The Faith will move back there maybe, I mean the wild fire was obviously wildfire which they saw in battle of black water bay so they know it's not the gods punishing the church you would assume

in the books back to Ot in the show probably a puppet HS for Cersei builds a new temporary one at the site of the old one?

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The faith will rise again. Violence cant stop the faith militant, only diplomacy can do that. Maegor and the old king tought us that. They will rage war guerilla style as they are leaderless, seeking justicie for the lives taken at the sept of Baelor, justicie which Dany will bring them by dealing with Cercei ( the clear cause of the explotion), restoring peace between the faith of the seven and the crown. Thats what i think should happen anyways

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I have been racking my brains wondering where the next serious challenge to Dany lies.  Now, Tyrion was seen seeking and apparently obtaining the support of that Red Priestess and many of that faith were backing Dany a long while back already.  Now, killing people indiscriminately, no matter how fanatical they might have been instantly turns them into martyrs...  So the Faith of the Seven is going to bite back that's for sure.  Now, them going against Cersei is a given but then, although some people might see Dany as a liberator (got rid of the Mad Queen's regime or if Jaime, say, does it, supplanted her and sounds fairer) many are going to be worried about her being backed by the Lord of Lights followers, so here mayhaps is where the next conflict lies... It would be interesting to see I think and would bring us a tad closer to the fire -v- ice final come down.

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On 7/3/2016 at 0:10 AM, SchpaceLord said:

What happens to the faith of the seven now? The HS and what looks like a bunch of "cardinals" and septas plus all (?) the faith militant were blown up. The main cathedral/center of faith was destroyed as well. Would the people view this as punishment by the seven or proof of their weakness/nonexistence? At least the red God can occasionally resurrect ppl...

Isnt the main HQ of the Faith in Oldtown?   All Cersei did was destroy the Sept the in Capital, not the 'main' center of the Faith.

Cersei _DID_ destroy the FM (in KL) at the least.  It is likely that the Faith's beauracrcy disliked and mistrusted the Sparrows. the destruction of the Sparrows would be welcomed.

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On 7/3/2016 at 0:10 AM, SchpaceLord said:

What happens to the faith of the seven now? The HS and what looks like a bunch of "cardinals" and septas plus all (?) the faith militant were blown up. The main cathedral/center of faith was destroyed as well. Would the people view this as punishment by the seven or proof of their weakness/nonexistence? At least the red God can occasionally resurrect ppl...

Interesting musings, but with only 13 episodes left, and basically one book (after Winds of Winter), i don't think these questions are going to be answered any time soon, if ever.

The Faith Militant has been decimated, and I don't see them being significant again for the entire remainder of ASOIAF

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They are all but destroyed. 

Remember, the reason they even came into power and relevance, was because the High Sparrow unified them all together under a common cause and belief system. 

If it wasn't for him, they are just a bunch of religious fanatics with no purpose in life. 

No High Sparrow = No Faith Militant. 

The explosion at the Sept might not have killed all of them, but without a unifying presence at the head of it, The Faith Militant is all but destroyed for the purposes of the remainder of the show

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The Most Devout don't appear to be a factor since Cersei was apparently able to appoint the High Sparrow in the show after the prior High Septon was shamed. Though regardless, the Faith hasn't been in centered in Oldtown since before the Targaryens. The Great Sept of Baelor was their center of organization, so there would seem to be a power void in the Faith. Nor can I see Cersei appointing a new High Septon after the last one. If the show touches on it at all, it would seem to fall to individual septons to set up a new central organization for their faith, if they can.

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  • 3 weeks later...

It is an interesting point that the Sparrows did not exactly represent the "main" Faith of the Seven.  However, they were made powerful by Cersei in exchange for forgetting the crown's debts to them and they were popular with the common folk because they advocated austerity for the rich etc.  So, I guess, we could have two scenarios:  a weak but still somewhere out there Sparrow faction still backed up by the peasants (but maybe not so many as they will now be very scared of Cersei) and the Old Faith making a come back with a new High Septon appointed by her.  Either way they will be weak and it might represent an opportunity for the God of Light followers to become more popular in Westeros, although as soon as they start burning people I don't know...  Since the Red Priests are popular with Dany's followers they may take this power vacuum (faith wise) as an opportunity but I don't think their popularity will be terribly long lived unless of course they really prove useful in fighting WW when shove comes to push.

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One thing I noticed about this faith is that there are no proofs about the existence of the seven gods. I mean, Melisandre is able to predict the future through the flames. Arya is able to change her appearance by using the faces of the people she kills. It means their gods might exist for real. Daenerys is also considered a gift sent by r'hllor in order to fight the whitewalkers. I think the people of the seven kingdoms will completely detach from the "gods" they used to believe in. To be honest I think none will dare ask Cersei to appoint a new high septon. Everyone knows she didn't support the High sparrow....

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I particularly think the Sept being consumed by flames will push the faithful of the seven kingdoms towards R´hollor, mirroring events like 1755´s Portugal earthquake which shook so may people´s belief in christianity. I think there might be a focus of resistance of the old (the seven) gods in Old Town, but they will be more and more persecuted until they vanish.

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On 7/3/2016 at 5:01 PM, Dorvn said:

The faith will rise again. Violence cant stop the faith militant, only diplomacy can do that. Maegor and the old king tought us that. They will rage war guerilla style as they are leaderless, seeking justicie for the lives taken at the sept of Baelor, justicie which Dany will bring them by dealing with Cercei ( the clear cause of the explotion), restoring peace between the faith of the seven and the crown. Thats what i think should happen anyways

So basically, they are going to become the Sons Of The Harpy?

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  • 3 weeks later...

I doubt they will attempt to raise an army again. Especially since Cersei firmly established the separation of Church and State. If she were smart her next act would be to abolish the Faith Militant the "King" authorized.

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Undercover or not, the faith will sustain, but there are going to be a lot of persecutions in the name of the Crown against the Faith of the Seven. Ultimately Cersei managed to make her own people an actual enemy within the city and the realm. It appears that the late High Sparrow cleansed the Faith; I cannot speak for the small folk in KL, but no one had given them the chance of throwing faeces toward the King-Mother, recently Queen. It was justice for all, even for the Royalty with the High Sparrow. I believe a puppet High Septon will be installed, but like the other ones he will be dead. Who can control an angry mob? The deterioration of weather will assist, along with the impending famine due to the collapse of the alliance between the Houses of Lannister and Tyrell, and with the magic twist of a pious orator the angry mob can do miracles, under religious pretends, hunger and cold. With the Winter at the doorstep of KL someone will pay for the dwindling numbers of the small folk. The faith will also survive by finding a new Patron, and in our case a Matron, who as we speak sails from Essos, therefore a new alliance can be formed. Cersei outdid herself, and her daddy was right once again, that she is not as clever as she thinks she is. Small folk are poor but not dumb, no matter what kind of rumours there may be spread (gas leak that was set ablaze underneath the city sewers leading to the epic explosion). I believe that a lot of small folk saw the green fire, and the small folk cannot afford to control it. Everything channels against Cersei, the only thing that bugs me is if she will be around to see what the small folk have for her, or if Jamie will do the honours and give mercy to her sister before she tries to "burn them all". Jamie is not very good in protecting Monarchs in times of trouble, and he has a soft spot for the small folk and his deeds have spoken for him (Aerys), especially when it is about fire. The only way to avoid any belligerence with the Faith, is to play it dumb and devastated and play it dumb, and accuse their Wisdoms, the Ancient Company of Alchemists, for plotting against the Faith and the Crown. It seems to me that the Faith has a lot of chances of surviving. 

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Faith is to be led by the new High Septon Sandor Clegane the Burnt, Eater of Chickens, Surrogate Father to Wolves, Certainly Not Ser, Unhinged, Unbent, Unbroken. 

 

Nah, seriously now, Faith will somewhat remain, though it will probably be in short term steamrolled by the Fire god. Heck, maybe Cersei will again strike a deal and invite the Red Priests in to help her suppress the Faith?

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One of the main things you need to consider I'd say is that the story is approaching its endgame so its becoming much less likely that new "players" will enter such as a new leader of the Faith of the Seven being heavily featured.

I think perhaps the most likely outcome is that killing the Sparrows will lead to general discontent in KL as was suggested with Tommen's refusal to take them on in season 5. Some surviving sparrows could be involved but really I'm not sure it would be needed to establish a climate where Cersei is a brutal tyrant more akin to the Boltons. That would obviously be fertile ground for Ayra and the Hound plus perhaps even Gendry to become involved in before Dany potentially gets to KL.

The idea that it could lead to a rejection of the Faith of the Seven is interesting and obviously Mel is now heading in that direction but I suspect this might be too complex a storyline to introduce at this stage and I expect Mel will either become involved with Ayra and/or Dany playing off Vary's dislike of her religion.

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If Cersei blows up the Sept in the book, I'd bet we'd see them again, obviously without the power they had previously, but I expect to see evidence of the Faith trying to get back on its feet. 

In the show, with only 13 episodes left, I bet no one even mentions the sparrows, high Septon, or the faith militant again. 

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