War Amongst The Starks

[MoreOrLess]

31 minutes ago, Drago said:

The way I saw that scene was that Sansa was happy for Jon but when she saw Littlefinger looking at them in a displeased manner her expression turned to oh shit I have to deal with this guy now.

I'd say a combination of that and satisfaction that Littlefingers potential power has just been weakened a lot by the Northerners declaring for Jon and the Vale Lords showing alliance to him.

I can see there being some tension between Jon and Sansa next season, not over jealousy of Jon being declared King but over what potential action to take now. Jon seems most likely to now focus on defending the Wall where as I can see Sansa(potentially influenced by LF) being more concerned with the political threat from the south. That would I think make perfect sense, each one looking to deal with the threat they have the most experience of.

[Asvpxkvng]

9 hours ago, NutBurz said:

Sansa will have Jon beheaded at the end of the next season, that´s why he´s using Ned´s hair, parallels and all.

Damn I want to say you're ridiculous and laugh at you but for some reason this sounds oddly GRRM-y. Just meaning I feel he's done things like that before...Gosh I pray you're wrong.

[GravyFace]

Perhaps not a "war", but a betrayal is definitely coming. There's just too much adding up to it.

Instead of ending the last North scene this season with a happy crowning of KITN, we're left with Sansa's worried/upset face. That's going to be a major point next season. 

[Bloodaxe]

8 hours ago, King Jon Stark Targaryen said:

As long as Littlefinger dies I would be happy with Princess Sansa. 

Bloody right I would be happy with anyone killing him

[NutBurz]

2 hours ago, Asvpxkvng said:

Damn I want to say you're ridiculous and laugh at you but for some reason this sounds oddly GRRM-y. Just meaning I feel he's done things like that before...Gosh I pray you're wrong.

I know right.

 

I don´t deeply believe that will happen, the cinic in me keeps whispering they won´t keep the quality of their initial premisse. I just like to wish very hard and say it out loud because I know it sounds uncomfortably possible. Just like Danny dying drowned and Littlefinger being the last man standing. (:

[AvengerofWinterfell]

7 hours ago, gotviewer said:

I think it depends on GRRM's ultimate arc for Sansa.  Right now she is what? 15? not married yet and hiding in the Vale.

1.  If she ends up dying in books (however which way) then on TV Arya or Jon will kill her but Sansa will be "innocent" of any wrongdoing so it parallels Lady's death and causes an internet maelstrom.

2.  If she ends up living  and does something important it is sort of tricky depending on how/whether she gets the throne, stays married to Tyrion or marries some other player.  TV will probably use Tension between Jon and Sansa to keep drama rolling.

3.  What giant at WF will she slay?  LF, Ramsay Bolton, the Night King?

the Giant she would slay would be LF. LF's grandfather or greatgrandfather was originally from Bravos and when given land he took the Titan of Bravos for his sigil.  LF's personal crest is the Mockingbird but his families traditional one is the Titan. 

As for Sansa, I dont think she'll try to betray Jon.  If she wanted to lead and be Lady of Winterfell its already been offered and she refused it.  If Jon was attempting to become Lord and Sansa resented it then ok, but he didnt want it and tried to give it to her and she refused it.  I know the writers and actors said in the scene breakdown that Jon becoming KitN could cause tension between Jon and Sansa but I dont think thats it.  I think Sansa's look at the end of that scene is more about LF.  She knows he wants the IT and when she sees the devious look on his face she realizes that he'll be actively working against Jon and herself to achieve that goal, and she knows exactly what he's capable of.

[jrod]

5 hours ago, Drago said:

The way I saw that scene was that Sansa was happy for Jon but when she saw Littlefinger looking at them in a displeased manner her expression turned to oh shit I have to deal with this guy now. If the producers go down the route of showing tension between Jon and Sansa and turning it into a battle between the starks after all has happened it will lesson the appeal of the show. It would be stupid.

Come up with a better storyline. Next season should be Sansa plotting Littlefinger's demise, he really needs to go because in the grand scheme of things he's nothing.

That is how I saw that scene too.  I saw it as Sansa was happy for Jon, and maybe even had a hand in it.  Then when she saw LF react her expression changed.  Will be interesting to see how it all plays out between those 3, because it could go any way.  But personally I think she was happy with Jon being proclaimed KitN.

[King Jon Snow Stark]

3 hours ago, AvengerofWinterfell said:

the Giant she would slay would be LF. LF's grandfather or greatgrandfather was originally from Bravos and when given land he took the Titan of Bravos for his sigil.  LF's personal crest is the Mockingbird but his families traditional one is the Titan. 

As for Sansa, I dont think she'll try to betray Jon.  If she wanted to lead and be Lady of Winterfell its already been offered and she refused it.  If Jon was attempting to become Lord and Sansa resented it then ok, but he didnt want it and tried to give it to her and she refused it.  I know the writers and actors said in the scene breakdown that Jon becoming KitN could cause tension between Jon and Sansa but I dont think thats it.  I think Sansa's look at the end of that scene is more about LF.  She knows he wants the IT and when she sees the devious look on his face she realizes that he'll be actively working against Jon and herself to achieve that goal, and she knows exactly what he's capable of.

Hopefully Sansa out Littlefinger Littlefinger and slays him. I also hope HBO is right that she is Lady of Winterfell because that would mean she has a say just like Lady Lyanna Mormont and any of the other lords. 

[Red Tiger]

20 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

I can tell you what will happen in S7 between Sansa and Jon

you will see Sansa conspiring with LF against Jon, you will tear off your hair, cry and you will say "why she's doing that to my Jon" and "this traitor" and then sansa will come to LF and say to him "Hey LF, I played the double agent for my brother, now you gonna die" and kill him and you will jump from happiness and say "Sansa is my princess", "I love her", "she was playing LF all along"

it's called drama and shock value

D&D will never put two fan favourite starks against each other

You will never see a stark killing another stark

http://i.imgur.com/zmNInt3.jpg

My ninja!

[caravaggio]

I feel fairly confident any conflict between Jon and Sansa will amount to about as much as who gets the last lemoncake.

 

There are only, what, 14-16 episodes left. There is a whole lot of other plot to get done in that amount of time. There is no time for a big complicated Jon vs. Sansa arc.

[CrypticWeirwood]

I really cannot see how war "amongst" the Starks makes any sense at all.  It would be war between them if anything, not among them. 

But at the end of the day, not even war between them is an idea with legs.

[King Jon Snow Stark]

25 minutes ago, caravaggio said:

I feel fairly confident any conflict between Jon and Sansa will amount to about as much as who gets the last lemoncake.

 

There are only, what, 14-16 episodes left. There is a whole lot of other plot to get done in that amount of time. There is no time for a big complicated Jon vs. Sansa arc.

The King does... duh. 

[Lord Lannister]

It's possible for Sansa to love Jon while still feeling he threatens her position as Lady Stark and feel resentment over that. We humans are all shades of gray and not black and white. She held back knowledge of the Vale army and Littlefinger from Jon. I could see another betrayal like that, but nothing like driving a dagger into his back literally.

[tugela]

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 10:41 AM, Valar Morning said:

So they're setting up Sansa to "betray" Jon next season because she's been acting shady this season. She didn't tell Jon about the Knights of the Vale, she was arguing with him, and she looked a bit envious (or just not happy) when Jon was pronounced King in the North. It looks like Littlefinger got in her head. 

And Arya has become a cold-blooded assassin and will murder anyone who she feels wronged her or anyone she loves in the slightest, even if that person is very close to her. 

D&D basically confirm this about the both of them (that Sansa is mistrustful and jealous of Jon and that Arya is headed to a dark place). 

Now lets look at how similar these scenes are:

- Ned tells Arya that Winter is coming and that "we cannot fight a war amongst ourselves."
- In this scene, winter is finally here. Jon says the same words as his father, "we cannot fight a war amongst ourselves."

Is this a just a coincidence or will there really be a war amongst them?

I think Sansa will "betray" Jon, Arya will kill her, and then realize later on that Sansa was innocent and it was all a big misunderstanding. This will likely put Arya in an even darker place.

Will Jon have to kill Arya after she has done this? 

She was smiling at him actually. She became apprehensive afterwards because she could see the look in Petyr's face, and knew that he was going to cause trouble later on.

Jon is the king, but Sansa is still the head of House Stark. She did not lose that by him becoming king.

[tugela]

19 hours ago, Zorral said:

You wild and crazy guys and your zig-zigzagging.  Professional soldiers with actual battle and sniper expereince say zigzagging is useless and also stupid. 

Some reviewers actually interviewed some of those who have seen extensive combat in the Middle East -- some who were snipers even -- and that's what these military fellows said.

Also, if actual soldiers don't cut it as expertise, recall in David Simon's Generation Kill, how much fun the soldiers made of the embedded journalist who went zig-zagging when fire broke out.  

 

 

Against bullets, which travel extremely fast, and with sniped targets who have no idea they are a target, maybe so. But against arrows (which are not all that accurate at that range anyway) it would be an effective method of evading being hit since the shooter cannot accurately lead the shot.

[JMJ]

This is one of the problems with the show. LF (like Ramsay and Joff) is one of the more one-dimensional characters. There are few redeeming traits, and LF is almost universally reviled by the show watchers. He's not significantly more likeable in the books, but at least we understand better some of his motivation, and we can see his POV a bit better. Same could be said for definitely Joff, possibly Ramsay in the books.

As a result, the North story has now just boiled down to, please please please don't let LF screw up Winterfell, just as the Starks are getting back together.

 

[tugela]

14 hours ago, gotviewer said:

I think it depends on GRRM's ultimate arc for Sansa.  Right now she is what? 15? not married yet and hiding in the Vale.

1.  If she ends up dying in books (however which way) then on TV Arya or Jon will kill her but Sansa will be "innocent" of any wrongdoing so it parallels Lady's death and causes an internet maelstrom.

2.  If she ends up living  and does something important it is sort of tricky depending on how/whether she gets the throne, stays married to Tyrion or marries some other player.  TV will probably use Tension between Jon and Sansa to keep drama rolling.

3.  What giant at WF will she slay?  LF, Ramsay Bolton, the Night King?

Book Sansa's story will be very different from the TV series Sansa, because in the book the girl married to Ramsey was Jeyne Poole (Fake Arya).

Sansa might still lead a Vale army to save Jon's assault on Winterfell, but obviously the circumstances are going to be a lot different.

[Darksky]

A skilled archer would have no problem hitting Rickon whether he ran straight, zigzagged or did the cartwheels. Ramsay had been established as very skillful, it was obvious he kept missing on purpose, he wanted to play for a little while longer, get Jon closer to him and kill Rickon right in front of him.

[tugela]

12 hours ago, Drago said:

The way I saw that scene was that Sansa was happy for Jon but when she saw Littlefinger looking at them in a displeased manner her expression turned to oh shit I have to deal with this guy now. If the producers go down the route of showing tension between Jon and Sansa and turning it into a battle between the starks after all has happened it will lesson the appeal of the show. It would be stupid.

Come up with a better storyline. Next season should be Sansa plotting Littlefinger's demise, he really needs to go because in the grand scheme of things he's nothing.

Not so. He will probably arrange to get married to Daenerys since Sansa is out of the picture for now. He will offer Daenerys the Vales forces against the Lannisters in return. That will leave the north out in the cold, so to speak. His long term plan then would be to crush the north, depose Daenerys (and put her head on a spike), then marry Sansa because she would have no other option.

Remember, he told her that before he makes any decision he asks himself how that would help his vision become reaility, then acts on that. So I am guessing that will be his next move, once Daenerys lands. The show has already set that up by booting Dario and making it clear that Daenerys will be looking for a politically suitable husband when she gets to Westeros. The list of candidates for that position is short.

[tugela]

10 minutes ago, Darksky said:

A skilled archer would have no problem hitting Rickon whether he ran straight, zigzagged or did the cartwheels. Ramsay had been established as very skillful, it was obvious he kept missing on purpose, he wanted to play for a little while longer, get Jon closer to him and kill Rickon right in front of him.

Not true. The time of flight will determine how accurately you can hit a moving target. The time of flight at that range was enough that an archer would not be reliably able to hit a zig zaging target. If the target was moving in a straight line, preferably away from you, then you can lead the target, and with sufficient skill (and knowledge of the effects of wind), you may hit it. Don't forget, the shots were being fired in a high arc, and those by their very nature are hit or miss at best.

The bows at that range would have been long bows, which were used to fire volleys rather than snipe. Hitting anything was pure luck of the draw.

If Rickon had started running erratically when the first arrow shot fell, he probably would have evaded Ramsey (but not a volley, if that was ordered).