Wait. so why was Jon called the "White Wolf"?

[Raeslewolhn]

On 7/7/2017 at 10:00 AM, Cron said:

Agreed.

A LOT of people believe Jon is going to end up with Dany, ruling Westeros together, but I don't believe that, for quite a few reasons.

Jon has resisted leadership and tried to reject "power" at every opportunity, as I recall.  He had no interest in being Jeor's steward to be prepared for leadership (had to be forced into it, he just wanted to be a simple ranger, that's all), and had to be basically dragged into being Lord Commander, too.

He was the de facto "leader" of the forces of the north at the Battle of the Bastards, but did NOTHING, so far as I recall, in a leadership role there.   He charged into battle, literally alone, and then his forces later followed after him to support him.  If they had a "strategy, " I'm totally unaware of it, it just looked like "full frontal assault" to me.

And Jon's a loner.  BIG TIME.  There are quite a few reasons I don't believe Jon will end up with Dany, and this is one of them, he has no interest in ruling, in my strong opinion, especially in peace time.   Plus, of course, after his very bad experience as Lord Commander, I think he's even less likely to accept a role as a ruler than he would have been before.

And that's all fine by me.  Jon's a warrior, not really a leader, a commander, or king, in my view.

I agree with all of this.

I would only add the Jon was trying to be a leader like ppl neeeeded, bc he cares even if he doesn't want leadership. He was justifiably emotionally triggered by Rickon at BotB and that's why he messed up and just charged. Like Ned, he can work against himself when honor, duty, family and all that conflicts with actual leadership planning. 

[Raeslewolhn]

On 7/5/2017 at 6:34 AM, snow is the man said:

They should have had ghost just sitting down at the table during that scene. Even have him just laying down sleeping would have been fine

Yes, at the table on a big bench sitting up! Ghost is clearly going to run Winterfell when Jon and Sansa leave to handle other affairs. 

[Cron]

54 minutes ago, Raeslewolhn said:

I agree with all of this.

I would only add the Jon was trying to be a leader like ppl neeeeded, bc he cares even if he doesn't want leadership. He was justifiably emotionally triggered by Rickon at BotB and that's why he messed up and just charged. Like Ned, he can work against himself when honor, duty, family and all that conflicts with actual leadership planning. 

Yes, I agree completely.

However, "losing your head" (my words) under pressure is NOT the mark of a good leader.  in fact, it's the exact opposite.  Far more often than not, I think, the person you want as a leader is calm, cool, and collected, even when everything is going to hell all around you.

I'm not disagreeing with what you said, though, just commenting further.

[Raeslewolhn]

1 hour ago, Cron said:

Yes, I agree completely.

However, "losing your head" (my words) under pressure is NOT the mark of a good leader.  in fact, it's the exact opposite.  Far more often than not, I think, the person you want as a leader is calm, cool, and collected, even when everything is going to hell all around you.

I'm not disagreeing with what you said, though, just commenting further.

Of course! Hooray for conversation. You seem to generally offer solid perspectives.

...Definitely. He would not be a good King. He is a great commander in battle, but not a good Lord or General either. I agree with this assesment as well.

I was more defending his character and worthiness of praise (in terms of ethics and bravery and nicknames). That doesn't make him a good King (other bad leaders but great heroes are Arya, Bran, (two of my favs) and Grey Worm, Robb Stark or even Oberyn you could say). 

There are too many Starks to worry about him being acting KitN. He'll take the support, but focus on the WW threat anyway, leaving others to rule the North more effectively. I'm not too worried, it may only cause minor drama.

[The Sunland Lord]

2 hours ago, Raeslewolhn said:

I musta skimmed this too fast. I love the Targ symbolism 

Me too. 

It's not official though, I made it up myself, but why not a little imagination? It does make sense after all.

[snow is the man]

5 hours ago, Raeslewolhn said:

Yes, at the table on a big bench sitting up! Ghost is clearly going to run Winterfell when Jon and Sansa leave to handle other affairs. 

Haha I meant on the floor or in front of the table.

[snow is the man]

5 hours ago, Cron said:

Yes, I agree completely.

However, "losing your head" (my words) under pressure is NOT the mark of a good leader.  in fact, it's the exact opposite.  Far more often than not, I think, the person you want as a leader is calm, cool, and collected, even when everything is going to hell all around you.

I'm not disagreeing with what you said, though, just commenting further.

There is an interesting video on youtube where they said jon did change from dying. He was extremly unsure of himself and really didn't want to live anymore. It goes through alot to explain this but the jist of it is he thought the one thing he could do was protect his family and when he failed to do it he essentially said f*** it. However when he was being crushed underneath his own men and he came up gasping for air it made him realize he wasn't ready to die yet so kind of like being reborn. I think he will be a good leader though far from perfect. 

[Raeslewolhn]

1 hour ago, snow is the man said:

There is an interesting video on youtube where they said jon did change from dying. He was extremly unsure of himself and really didn't want to live anymore. It goes through alot to explain this but the jist of it is he thought the one thing he could do was protect his family and when he failed to do it he essentially said f*** it. However when he was being crushed underneath his own men and he came up gasping for air it made him realize he wasn't ready to die yet so kind of like being reborn. I think he will be a good leader though far from perfect. 

Well, maybe if he really really learned his lesson after Rickon and the BotB, that's the rebirth. We'll certainly see him develop further emotionally with this new recognition that was never his dream of recognition. 

[Raeslewolhn]

1 hour ago, snow is the man said:

Haha I meant on the floor or in front of the table.

I think you accidentally prophesized. WW bring devastation but a few humans survive to kill them all with dragons. The North is empty.... except for one wolf. Ghost, King in the North.

[snow is the man]

4 hours ago, Raeslewolhn said:

Well, maybe if he really really learned his lesson after Rickon and the BotB, that's the rebirth. We'll certainly see him develop further emotionally with this new recognition that was never his dream of recognition. 

wait what?

[Cron]

On 7/16/2017 at 1:05 PM, Raeslewolhn said:

Of course! Hooray for conversation. You seem to generally offer solid perspectives.

...Definitely. He would not be a good King. He is a great commander in battle, but not a good Lord or General either. I agree with this assesment as well.

I was more defending his character and worthiness of praise (in terms of ethics and bravery and nicknames). That doesn't make him a good King (other bad leaders but great heroes are Arya, Bran, (two of my favs) and Grey Worm, Robb Stark or even Oberyn you could say). 

There are too many Starks to worry about him being acting KitN. He'll take the support, but focus on the WW threat anyway, leaving others to rule the North more effectively. I'm not too worried, it may only cause minor drama.

Oh yes, I like Jon's character a lot.

He probably has one of the most exciting stories, too (lots of action, adventure, exploring, romance, learning about the WW/Others, defending the Wall, retaking Winterfell).   Closest thing to a true action hero that GoT has, I would say.

And year, he's a genuinely good guy.  Very easy to like as a character, and very easy to root for.

[Cron]

On 7/16/2017 at 4:22 PM, snow is the man said:

There is an interesting video on youtube where they said jon did change from dying. He was extremly unsure of himself and really didn't want to live anymore. It goes through alot to explain this but the jist of it is he thought the one thing he could do was protect his family and when he failed to do it he essentially said f*** it. However when he was being crushed underneath his own men and he came up gasping for air it made him realize he wasn't ready to die yet so kind of like being reborn. I think he will be a good leader though far from perfect. 

Interesting.  Well, that Battle was late last season, and we've only had a few episodes since.  I guess we'll continue to see how it changed him.

[Raeslewolhn]

On 7/19/2017 at 0:01 AM, Cron said:

Oh yes, I like Jon's character a lot.

He probably has one of the most exciting stories, too (lots of action, adventure, exploring, romance, learning about the WW/Others, defending the Wall, retaking Winterfell).   Closest thing to a true action hero that GoT has, I would say.

And year, he's a genuinely good guy.  Very easy to like as a character, and very easy to root for.

I feel like Arya, Bran and Jon got a strong Stark underdog, deviant start, which Robb and Sansa didn't fit, but they're all always honorable about it. Jon and Arya are both really fierce, uncorrupt and unwavering , like his mom. I love Bran stories, the fantasy, and maybe that could never fill a whole series but it wouldnt be GoT. Jon is always fighting some righteous battle, like Dany usually is but not always. But on the front lines. He's def the action hero of the show and he stuck out from the start, first scene bk to the white wolf thing. 

[Cron]

11 hours ago, Raeslewolhn said:

I feel like Arya, Bran and Jon got a strong Stark underdog, deviant start, which Robb and Sansa didn't fit, but they're all always honorable about it. Jon and Arya are both really fierce, uncorrupt and unwavering , like his mom. I love Bran stories, the fantasy, and maybe that could never fill a whole series but it wouldnt be GoT. Jon is always fighting some righteous battle, like Dany usually is but not always. But on the front lines. He's def the action hero of the show and he stuck out from the start, first scene bk to the white wolf thing. 

Yeah, Jon's character, right from the beginning, brought a sense of "not quite belonging," which a lot of people can easily relate to.  In fact, I'd opine that almost everyone, at some point, has felt a sense of not quite really feeling like they belonged with or were fully part of a certain group, sometimes for reasons as simple as the fact that the rest of the group has been together longer (say, for example, starting out at a new school)

Regarding Bran, I think he's incredibly important, probably one off the top 3 most important characters (along with Jon and Dany), so I enjoy his scenes too, for sure..

[Raeslewolhn]

9 hours ago, Cron said:

Yeah, Jon's character, right from the beginning, brought a sense of "not quite belonging," which a lot of people can easily relate to.  In fact, I'd opine that almost everyone, at some point, has felt a sense of not quite really feeling like they belonged with or were fully part of a certain group, sometimes for reasons as simple as the fact that the rest of the group has been together longer (say, for example, starting out at a new school)

Regarding Bran, I think he's incredibly important, probably one off the top 3 most important characters (along with Jon and Dany), so I enjoy his scenes too, for sure..

Jon, for sure. Everyone loves an underdog  

Bran definitely carries the Ice half of the entire show, in terms of world-building. I don't think I would watch GoT without that. The fantasy aspect is vital for me, its also something to look into in other media between eps. Bran scenes are the best and I was always hoping for more Bran and sad he was gone for a season, but he's probably back regularly now.  And there's only so much material that won't spoil other plots. He's a wonderful person, the character, but not as outstanding as Jon, Dany, Arya or Tyrion, in terms of dialogue, character building, plot, etc. (He changes reasonably, he matures like any person.)

[Cron]

22 hours ago, Raeslewolhn said:

Jon, for sure. Everyone loves an underdog  

Bran definitely carries the Ice half of the entire show, in terms of world-building. I don't think I would watch GoT without that. The fantasy aspect is vital for me, its also something to look into in other media between eps. Bran scenes are the best and I was always hoping for more Bran and sad he was gone for a season, but he's probably back regularly now.  And there's only so much material that won't spoil other plots. He's a wonderful person, the character, but not as outstanding as Jon, Dany, Arya or Tyrion, in terms of dialogue, character building, plot, etc. (He changes reasonably, he matures like any person.)

Yeah, one thing I noticed (and liked) about 701 was that I THINK we saw at least SOME time with nearly every major remaining character (only exceptions I can think of offhand are Olenna, Sand Snakes, Ellaria, and maybe Daario.)

I hope they keep that up, I think it worked well, and that will mean seeing plenty of Bran every week!

[snow is the man]

19 hours ago, Cron said:

Yeah, one thing I noticed (and liked) about 701 was that I THINK we saw at least SOME time with nearly every major remaining character (only exceptions I can think of offhand are Olenna, Sand Snakes, Ellaria, and maybe Daario.)

I hope they keep that up, I think it worked well, and that will mean seeing plenty of Bran every week!

I think darrio is off the show now.

[Cron]

4 hours ago, snow is the man said:

I think darrio is off the show now.

Permanently, or just for this season, or we don't know?

(I still think Dany should end up with Daario.  He is a MUCH better match for her than Jon, and there really aren't any other eligible bachelors at all, that I can think of)