Bond 25: No Time To Die

[Heartofice]

21 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

See, that's where pop culture opinions are so varied. I thought Haywire was incredibly bland, that Careno tries hard to act, but still feels wooden and unnatural. After that terrific diner fight, it just got duller by the minute. I don't even remember if I bothered to finish it, nor do I recall a lick of the plot. I thought the fight choreography in Atomic Blonde was terrific and visceral, though of course you're correct that Gina looks strong as all hell in her role. 

Sometimes movies just don't work for certain people - I love Soderburgh, but I didn't think Haywire felt like one his movies. You aren't the first person to tell me they didn't like Atomic Blonde, though I was gleefully into it throughout.

Haywire is far from a perfect movie and you’re right she can’t act, but she can fight. I enjoyed the structure of the movie and the way it was paced.

Atomic Blonde I had high expectations for but it really was a totally empty movie as far as I was concerned. It had the depth of a music video and while it occasionally looked great it didn’t have anything resembling a plot or characters in it. The worst part I thought were the fights , which was surprising because I think they had a respected fight co-ordinatior on the movie? But I could see the punches a mile off and nothing Theron did seemed very convincing to me, and I like her a lot.

Id much rather watch Haywire because Atomic Blonde insulted me with its paper thinness 

 

.. I’d even go as far as to say I even preferred Lucy ( which is a bad movie but almost every measure .. except maybe fun)

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I think this will all come down to execution. If they pull off what they’re going for, nobody will care that 007 is/was a woman. But if they fail…..good god will the interwebs be a dumpster fire for at least a week or so.

[RumHam]

 

3 hours ago, Fez said:

There's also always the theory that James Bond is a code name (and all the different Bonds over the years have actually been different characters) and it just so happens that the Bond code name has always had the 007 designation. They could have their cake and eat it by introducing the new 007 in Bond 25 and then she meets the next James Bond in the next movie; and either they become partners and the series becomes more team-centric (like MI and F&F) or the next Bond eventually gets the 007 designation.

Didn't Skyfall blow that theory by taking us back to the Bond family home? 

[Derfel Cadarn]

Just now, RumHam said:

 

Didn't Skyfall blow that theory by taking us back to the Bond family home? 

It was never really a viable theory. The first 3 Bonds were clearly meant to be the same person, with Moore visiting Tracy’s grave.  It only really gets iffy where Dalton is so much younger; even then they have actors carrying over and acting if it’s the same Bond despite him being decades younger.

I’d regard it as three continuities; Connery to Moore, dalton and Brosnan, and then Craig.

[HexMachina]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Good call! In 2019 this simply isn’t the time nor the place for portray men as good at fighting or attractive to women. Anyone who might want to see that is probably some sort of Trump voter!

Because that's what I said, sure you do you 

[Rhom]

19 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

It was never really a viable theory. The first 3 Bonds were clearly meant to be the same person, with Moore visiting Tracy’s grave.  It only really gets iffy where Dalton is so much younger; even then they have actors carrying over and acting if it’s the same Bond despite him being decades younger.

I’d regard it as three continuities; Connery to Moore, dalton and Brosnan, and then Craig.

Even in the Brosnan movies there's a throwaway line at some point where they are listing info on Bond and it says "Wife... deceased" and he cuts them off with a stern "That's enough."  Die Another Day being the 20th movie in the official line also had several callbacks to Bond's adventures in the other movies.

Bond has always been the same guy, we just have to stretch our imaginations... because its a movie.

[RumHam]

1 minute ago, Rhom said:

Even in the Brosnan movies there's a throwaway line at some point where they are listing info on Bond and it says "Wife... deceased" and he cuts them off with a stern "That's enough."  Die Another Day being the 20th movie in the official line also had several callbacks to Bond's adventures in the other movies.

Bond has always been the same guy, we just have to stretch our imaginations... because its a movie.

I agree up until Casino Royale which I'm almost positive they said was a full reboot where M just happened to be Judi Dench again. 

[Rhom]

Just now, RumHam said:

I agree up until Casino Royale which I'm almost positive they said was a full reboot where M just happened to be Judi Dench again. 

It was... until it wasn't.

It was a full reboot, until Skyfall when they pulled out the old Aston Martin from Goldfinger and acted like it was his old car.  I never have liked how they did the full reboot with two movies as a newly promoted to 00 status Bond and then all of a sudden they do the Dark Bond Rises treatment and make him old and decrepit in the third movie.  Craig in Skyfall has very clearly been through 22 movies worth of adventures.

Again, we are just supposed to accept these things and go on, because they are movies that feature space battles... volcano lairs... villains who get stronger because they have a bullet in their head... and tank chases in the streets of St. Petersburg.

[Heartofice]

Did they carry over different M's and Q's between Bonds or was Dench the first one?

[RumHam]

5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Did they carry over different M's and Q's between Bonds or was Dench the first one?

Desmond Llewelyn was Q in like twenty movies before he died. The were at least a couple M's who stuck around for two or three films too. 

Edit: Didn't realize Bernard Lee played M for almost 20 years. 

13 minutes ago, Rhom said:

It was... until it wasn't.

It was a full reboot, until Skyfall when they pulled out the old Aston Martin from Goldfinger and acted like it was his old car.  I never have liked how they did the full reboot with two movies as a newly promoted to 00 status Bond and then all of a sudden they do the Dark Bond Rises treatment and make him old and decrepit in the third movie.  Craig in Skyfall has very clearly been through 22 movies worth of adventures.

Again, we are just supposed to accept these things and go on, because they are movies that feature space battles... volcano lairs... villains who get stronger because they have a bullet in their head... and tank chases in the streets of St. Petersburg.

It does really suck that they already did the "bond is back but maybe he lost a step" thing cause in this new movie it would have actually made sense.

[Fez]

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

 

Didn't Skyfall blow that theory by taking us back to the Bond family home? 

I don't think so. It could've just been that guy's family home (or did they actually call it the Bond estate rather than his family estate?)

Also, the original plan had been for Sean Connery to play the Albert Finney role. It didn't happen for a lot of reasons; but I think that suggests they were at least thinking about going in the multiple Bonds direction. I don't think he'd have ever directly called himself Bond, but just him being in the movie would've made it clear what's happening.

[RumHam]

58 minutes ago, Fez said:

(or did they actually call it the Bond estate rather than his family estate?)

I think so, but I wouldn't swear to it it's been a while. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I don't it's just the estate that nukes the multiple Bond theory, one I've always promoted. Skyfall just has a ton of stuff in it that makes it clear that he was born as James Bond. The only workable way around is by establishing that upon his death, 007 will always have the alias of James Bond, and now that's gone too. The biggest reasons I want the multiple Bonds thing to be real is that (i), it really helps makes sense of the fact that these villains all know who he is, but not what he looks like, and (ii) black Bond baby! Idris Elba would have made an incredible Bond, and only truly stone cold racists could disagree with that casting. 

[RedEyedGhost]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Skyfall just has a ton of stuff in it that makes it clear that he was born as James Bond.

Specifically the gamekeeper that greets him, "James, James Bond."

[The Anti-Targ]

I mean, at some point in every one of the Bond multiverses James Bond will die or retire, so someone else will be assigned the 007... title? It just so happens that the Craig-verse is the first one where we've seen 007 being handed off to someone else.

I think it might have been fun to pull a "Never say Never Again" and bring Connery back, but this time as Bond in a wheelchair with woolen lap blanket issuing sage advice to a newly minted 007. Indeed I think it would have been fun to have a newly minted male 007 fail and die on his first mission, and Lashana comes up as the next agent in line for a 00 status. 

Current 007 gets blown to smithereens, fade to M and Q looking exasperated as they say "that's the 10th 007 to die in the line of duty since Bond retired, it's like the number has been cursed." Pan to screen of "007 agents" with 11 faces: Connery's face in full colour with "Retired" underneath and 10 grayed out faces of men and women with "KIA" underneath.

Until there's a new James Bond reboot, is it really Craig's Bond we want as the enduring Bond even unto retirement?

[Jon AS]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Until there's a new James Bond reboot, is it really Craig's Bond we want as the enduring Bond even unto retirement?

Hasn't Craig's Bond retired like three times by now, anyway?

I don't really care about the continuity in Bond movies, I'm happy to just be along for the ride of any given film. Maybe I'm just not that into the franchise.

[Myrddin]

Spin off = 007: Bond Beyond

While I can see them trying to finally get a spin off to start a Bond Cinematic Universe, would they really try to shelve the character of Bond? Seems like another reboot (soft or hard) is on the horizon in some form.

[RedEyedGhost]

1 hour ago, Myrddin said:

Spin off = 007: Bond Beyond

While I can see them trying to finally get a spin off to start a Bond Cinematic Universe, would they really try to shelve the character of Bond? Seems like another reboot (soft or hard) is on the horizon in some form.

Bond Legacy - worked for Bourne, surely it would work with a series that had 8 times the history.  Oh, wait...

[Relic]

Atomic Blonde was a better movie than any of the recent Bonds have been.

Also, who gives a shit?

Why are people so hell bent on being upset over fucking entertainment? Do something constructive with that energy, raging about 007 being a (gasp!!) woman is just sooooooo pathetic. 

[Heartofice]

10 minutes ago, Relic said:

Atomic Blonde was a better movie than any of the recent Bonds have been.

Also, who gives a shit?

Why are people so hell bent on being upset over fucking entertainment? Do something constructive with that energy, raging about 007 being a (gasp!!) woman is just sooooooo pathetic. 

You do understand you are yourself discussing these things on the internet on a forum? Shouldn't you do something more constructive with that energy?