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Bond 25: No Time To Die

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On 1/14/2020 at 10:54 PM, Nictarion said:

No idea who that is... :lol:

I’ve heard her name mentioned a lot, but never checked her out. I decided to after hearing the news.

How is she a thing? I’m open minded about music and always try to give artists a few chances. I listened to three songs and she is absolutely terrible. It’s like a mediocre talent had sex with pop music, acid and heroin and produced a baby. That’s Billie Eilish.

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11 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I’ve heard her name mentioned a lot, but never checked her out. I decided to after hearing the news.

How is she a thing? I’m open minded about music and always try to give artists a few chances. I listened to three songs and she is absolutely terrible. It’s like a mediocre talent had sex with pop music, acid and heroin and produced a baby. That’s Billie Eilish.

Ummm, ok boomer? 

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6 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said:

Ummm, ok boomer? 

I’m 31. And truth be told, despite my disdain for that generation, their music was better. Ours largely sucks.

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Billie Eilish is good but I'm not sure I see her style as a good fit for Bond at all, and her older songs where she did sing in a more Bond-y style were pretty bland. Feels like Lana Del Rey would have been a better choice...

Someday they're gonna have to bite the bullet and have Kanye West do one.

 

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1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

How is she a thing? I’m open minded about music and always try to give artists a few chances. I listened to three songs and she is absolutely terrible. It’s like a mediocre talent had sex with pop music, acid and heroin and produced a baby. That’s Billie Eilish.

 

1 hour ago, Conflicting Thought said:

Ummm, ok boomer? 

This exchange reminds me of the classic South Park episode "You're Getting Old:"

"It's a condition called being a cynical asshole."  "Oh no!" That's gotta be one of my favorite things ever, always makes me laugh.  Anyway, while I've heard of Billie Eilish, I have no idea if I've ever even heard her music.

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I'm glad you reminded me of your stance on women! I'd almost forgotten!

We already saw a kickass female Bond, Charlize in Atomic Blonde. Agreed we don't need the name Bond to make women bad ass.

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I can see the argument for staying true to the source material in some cases. Some intellectual properties have retained that intangible quality that makes them so successful. In those cases, I can see the argument for not wanting to push the boundaries by adding to it with new media. 

James Bond is not one of those instances. There is no risk to the IP at all because the bubble has long since burst. There are plenty of Bond films that are pure trash. And if you release a Bond film that doesn't make sense because Bond isn't a woman, you aren't hurting the credibility of that series. At this point, I think it's a better idea to try to explore the character through a new lens and see if it fits, rather than to keep trying to remake the same film. 

A few relevant examples:

  • Blade Runner 2049 - a film that managed to add new media to an IP without degrading it somehow.
  • Star Wars/The Lord of the Rings - two great original trilogies that had their mythos essentially destroyed by follow-up cash grabs.
  • Spider-man: Into the Spider-Verse - a film that tried to showcase multiple ethnic varieties of the same character, and succeeded completely.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Conflicting Thought said:

A victory for the deplorables, nice! 

Her actual comments are perfectly reasonable:

Quote

He can be of any color, but he is male. I believe we should be creating new characters for women - strong female characters. I’m not particularly interested in taking a male character and having a woman play it. I think women are far more interesting than that.

They have a female 007 in this one. Do people actually want them to cast a woman as "James Bond?" or "Jane Bond" or something? 

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3 hours ago, DMC said:

Anyway, while I've heard of Billie Eilish, I have no idea if I've ever even heard her music.

I've been riding with my step-daughter as she drives on her learner's permit and have seen the name run across the screen for the radio thingamob in the car.  Couldn't tell you what song it was, but the name was unique enough that I recognized it when I saw the article.

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1 hour ago, Argonath Diver said:

I'm glad you reminded me of your stance on women! I'd almost forgotten!

We already saw a kickass female Bond, Charlize in Atomic Blonde. Agreed we don't need the name Bond to make women bad ass.

What is my stance on women? 

As you say, nothing stopping anyone making great movies with female leads. Nothing at all. 

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1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

As you say, nothing stopping anyone making great movies with female leads. Nothing at all. 

Nothing stopping anyone gender switching famous roles in existing franchises either.

Broccoli’s notion that “women are more interesting than that” isn’t particularly persuasive that the former would be better than the latter.

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How much can you change a character and still say it's the same character. Unfortunately for those hoping to break free of reality and common sense, James Bond IS a man, and being male fundamentaly is part of HIS character. There is nothing saying James Bond has to be white.. but he is a man.

There really is almost no compelling reason for making such an enormous shift to who James Bond is. Outside of being wedged to some rigid political dogma of course.

There are of course plenty of other action franchises with female leads, so what even is the case for mindlessly gender swapping such a famous character when there doesn't appear to be anything stopping female action movies being made.

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1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Unfortunately for those hoping to break free of reality

Um... James Bond isn't real.

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Outside of being wedged to some rigid political dogma of course.

The notion that Bond must always be a white male is itself a rigid political dogma.

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1 minute ago, mormont said:

The notion that Bond must always be a white male is itself a rigid political dogma.

Lol. It really isn’t. Good try though.

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2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

How much can you change a character and still say it's the same character. Unfortunately for those hoping to break free of reality and common sense, James Bond IS a man, and being male fundamentaly is part of HIS character. There is nothing saying James Bond has to be white.. but he is a man.

There really is almost no compelling reason for making such an enormous shift to who James Bond is. Outside of being wedged to some rigid political dogma of course.

There are of course plenty of other action franchises with female leads, so what even is the case for mindlessly gender swapping such a famous character when there doesn't appear to be anything stopping female action movies being made.

What do you mean there is nothing saying he’s white? He’s a white male fictional character. If you can change one you can change the other.

And the case for gender swapping is that it’s an iconic character which would do more for representation than creating a new character would.

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8 minutes ago, john said:

What do you mean there is nothing saying he’s white? He’s a white male fictional character. If you can change one you can change the other.

I would say James Bond being Male is a much more intrinsic part of  HIS character than HIS race. 
 

So you agree the main case for doing it would be ideological rather than anything else.

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