Bakker XLV: Optimal Tip-to-Tip Damnation (no TGO Spoilers)

[lokisnow]

11 hours ago, red snow said:

Not to be too morbid but people selling dead relatives'  stuff don't know the value of some things and just want to get rid of them. I think I'd rather that was the case than someone being in a situation where they have to sell them (although they'd be selling them on ebay rather than bargain basement). I'm pretty sure there are collectors who swing by charity shops to find such gems in terms of books, vinyls etc on the off-chance of finding such gems.

Better they land in the hands of someone who likes the books rather than someone who just gets them to sell on at a profit!

And sometimes one is just stupid. case in point, I had a very worn and damaged SFBC copy of terry prachetts the thief of time, when he came to LA To do a signing for the release of thud I got all my half dozen HCs signed at the time and I'm pretty I got it signed. Shortly thereafter I started assembling a collection of British hardcovers of discworld and thief of time was one of the first ones since it was recent and therefor relatively cheap. Fast forward MANY years later and we are clearing off bookshelves to donate what we don't need or want any more and I looked at this old beat up copy of thief of time and thought, "well I have a better edition of this," and without looking at it tossed it into the goodwill pile.

so I'm pretty sure I donated a signed book, which I never intended to do.

[Darth Richard II]

9 hours ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said:

I'll survive, I am sure. Besides, the front cover says Book One on it, so that one's on Bakker.

You must be new to the genre

[Gasp of Many Reeds]

16 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

So as somebody very new to the series, I have a quick question. I've heard different things from different places, and I don't want to look this up myself and risk spoiling something. Is the conclusion of the Aspect Emperor series supposed to be the end of TSA, or is Bakker planning a third cycle of books?

Third cycle is planned - Bakker refuses to release any particular details, even the title, as says is a spoiler for the end of the second series. Thus the third series is The Series That Shall Not Be Named. 

[redjako]

15 hours ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said:

I'll survive, I am sure. Besides, the front cover says Book One on it, so that one's on Bakker.

I hope you post your thoughts after your through reading it! I'd love to hear what you think without reading the first trilogy.

[red snow]

9 hours ago, lokisnow said:

And sometimes one is just stupid. case in point, I had a very worn and damaged SFBC copy of terry prachetts the thief of time, when he came to LA To do a signing for the release of thud I got all my half dozen HCs signed at the time and I'm pretty I got it signed. Shortly thereafter I started assembling a collection of British hardcovers of discworld and thief of time was one of the first ones since it was recent and therefor relatively cheap. Fast forward MANY years later and we are clearing off bookshelves to donate what we don't need or want any more and I looked at this old beat up copy of thief of time and thought, "well I have a better edition of this," and without looking at it tossed it into the goodwill pile.

so I'm pretty sure I donated a signed book, which I never intended to do.

The collector in me feels your pain. Goodwill indeed!

 

9 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

You must be new to the genre

This is what happens when you don't have dedicated threads to "what order do i read the bakker books in"

 

[Calibandar]

On 9/27/2016 at 10:57 AM, Let's Get Kraken said:

So as somebody very new to the series, I have a quick question. I've heard different things from different places, and I don't want to look this up myself and risk spoiling something. Is the conclusion of the Aspect Emperor series supposed to be the end of TSA, or is Bakker planning a third cycle of books?

 

Well The Unholy Consult is an ending of sorts, it is the ending of the story line he has been working on for many years and the end of the story line as he conceived it many years ago. He says it will certainly be a resolution to the Aspect Emperor story.

Aside from that there may be two more books sometime in the future which are currently only existing in the most rudimentary shape. If you're new to the series and are waiting for a finished series, now is about the time to start reading books 1 to 6, as the final book 7, TUC, will be out July 2017.

[Calibandar]

That the title cannot be released because it is a spoiler is still correct.

That the third series was part of his original vision is not, as far as I can tell. TUC concludes the SA storyline he originally set out to tell back when he was a teenager/ twenties guy. He's mentioned several times that TUC was the end of the cycle of things he dreamed of finishing for so many times. In a July interview as well.

There may be more books ( another duology). It's not said that that will even happen as it seems to depend on sales of the current series, and those books basically need to be written from scratch. As we know, it's taken many years to get these books out as it is.

[Madness]

LGK, what information on the wikipedia are you referring?

[Madness]

Ah yes, his wiki page.

Thanks.

[Werthead]

Bakker was certainly talking about three series as early as TDTCB. However, that in itself was the culmination of something he'd begun thinking about 20 years earlier. At some point in that 20-year period, the Final Series was first mooted, after PoN and AE had been conceived and planned in depth but before they were published.

[Magnar of Skagos]

13 hours ago, red snow said:

 

This is what happens when you don't have dedicated threads to "what order do i read the bakker books in"

 

What kind of silly person would pick up a book clearly titled Book 1, and honestly expect it to be the first/introductory novel in a series?

I'm over a quarter of the way through it now. Seems a little pretentious, though it isn't really difficult to follow along with like you are all making it out to be. Kind of distracting how every single cultural group ends with an "i", though... Shigeki, Tydonni, Ainoni, Nilnameshi, Khirgwi, etc, etc, etc. Where's the Realmians? The Realmese? The Realmish? A little variety couldn't hurt.

[Rhom]

4 minutes ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said:

What kind of silly person would pick up a book clearly titled Book 1, and honestly expect it to be the first/introductory novel in a series?

Last year, several threads were created at varying times asking different versions of "What order should I read Abercrombie?"

It became a bit of a joke around these parts.  That's what he was referring to.

[Kalbear]

7 minutes ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said:

What kind of silly person would pick up a book clearly titled Book 1, and honestly expect it to be the first/introductory novel in a series?

I'm over a quarter of the way through it now. Seems a little pretentious, though it isn't really difficult to follow along with like you are all making it out to be. Kind of distracting how every single cultural group ends with an "i", though... Shigeki, Tydonni, Ainoni, Nilnameshi, Khirgwi, etc, etc, etc. Where's the Realmians? The Realmese? The Realmish? A little variety couldn't hurt.

I don't think it's particularly confusing. It might be less meaningful, but there's really not that much plot-level depth there and the 'what comes before' does a very good job of summing up the books before it - often with far more clarity than the actual narratives.

[Magnar of Skagos]

23 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

You must be new to the genre

Nah, I have been reading it for quite a while. Which is why I find some of the reading order discussions silly at times, unless an author's body of work is comprised of like 15 different stand-alone novels all set in the same world, or something along those lines.

[Darth Richard II]

Well, I'm pretty sure most of those discussions are jokes. Although there was/is a big push in SFF publishing to have everything be trilogies at one point. It can get weird.

[red snow]

Just ordered the UK edition off Amazon - nowhere seems to be selling it in shops in Bristol. On the brightside I got a random £2 discount off at the checkout. The gods must be smiling on me.

I still think I might do a re-read before starting this one and try and time it for the release of the next one.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

11 hours ago, red snow said:

Just ordered the UK edition off Amazon - nowhere seems to be selling it in shops in Bristol. On the brightside I got a random £2 discount off at the checkout. The gods must be smiling on me.

I still think I might do a re-read before starting this one and try and time it for the release of the next one.

If you've never done a reread, then that sounds I like a great idea. The books get better upon reread, and read differently as well, with info you get in later books. Layers of Revelation.

[LuckyCharms]

23 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

So I just finished the PON trilogy. Starting TAE tomorrow.

Still waiting to catch up and digest everything before joining in the discussions, but I did notice one thing as I was wrapping up TTT earlier tonight that I wanted to bring up. When Kellhus and Moenghus finally meet, daddy Dûnyain wipes his eye sockets and the cloth comes away with blood.

Does anybody know how long empty eye sockets will bleed for?

I have to ask, judging from your avatar you are a fan of Berserk, did you make any comparisons to Berserk after finishing PON?

I had been steeped in TSA for years before I read all of Berserk last summer—what is that, like 38 volumes? I enjoyed the series, but wasn't too terribly impressed. Thought of it mostly as a poor man's version of TSA. Morally ambiguous messianic leader. Dark metaphysical forces acting behind the scenes.

You probably have the inverse relationship, so I want your opinion.

[LuckyCharms]

10 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

TLDR,

Yes.

I appreciate your perspective, truly. I've been searching for another person who had read both series.

Griffith is definitely at his most Kellhusesque after the Battle at Lumias, when Mule bowed before him. His inner voice is, 'I just have this immense gratitude at being in this man's presence, oh surely he is god come among us,' or something to that effect. At least Kellhus has to work at manipulating people, Griffith/Femto just has to stand there like a boor and people fall over themselves to worship him. Both get acclaimed by the fantasy-pope to legitimize their authority etc. etc.

I won't comment on who I think the God Hand are. But Ganishka's Shiva-form reminded me of the No-God. Giant, inhuman abomination followed by massive horde of monsters. Bellowing random agnosiac musings, WHAT DO YOU SEE? and WHAT AM I?.

I had to look up when Miura wrote that because it seemed to eerily similar. 

Perhaps the most disappointing part of Berserk is the lack of mundane worldbuilding. Axiomatic to this is that there is literally only one historical figure in Berserk, Emperor Gaiseric. And even he is probably/most likely a very contemporary character, if you know what I mean.  Miura is no Tolkien/Bakker—which he shouldn't try to be. But for me personally, I really engage with the verisimilitude of setting in a fantasy-fiction world. And Berserk really isn't about that, which makes it kinda fall flat for me sometimes.

To answer your original question, yes, people have made comments about the bleeding eyes from Moe. When Mallahet treats with Xerius in book 1, his eyes are not bleeding, the lack of parity would suggest something... but what exactly?—couldn't say.

How much progress have you made in The Judging Eye?

[.H.]

15 hours ago, LuckyCharms said:

To answer your original question, yes, people have made comments about the bleeding eyes from Moe. When Mallahet treats with Xerius in book 1, his eyes are not bleeding, the lack of parity would suggest something... but what exactly?—couldn't say.

This is one of those things that I always meant to ask Bakker, but when it's question time, I always forget.

2 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

Well it seems to me that part of the point of Kellhus, as he's presented to us, is that even though everyone who meets him is enthralled, we know what he really is, and how he's manipulating people.

Bakker has pointed out that Kellhus often enthralls the reader as well.  More on that when you finish tAE though, don't want to cloud the rest of the series too much for you before you read it.