SanSan next season?

[wolfsbae]

The Hound is an absolutely vital character in the series, and his overall story arc is much greater than Cleganebowl. It’s ridiculous to presume that the Hound was “resurrected” with the sole intention of heading south to finally bring an end to the Mountain  -- that is not his “story,” he serves a much greater purpose and will be a leading force in the fight against the WWs. To reintroduce his character for the sole purpose of bringing an end to the Mountain That Rides does a disservice to the BRILLIANCE and NUANCE that is the Hound. For me, two things are dead cert: the Gods aren’t done with Sandor Clegane, and we won’t ever see Cleganebowl. As for SanSan, I’m a little unsure where it’s heading.  

At this point, the Hound is alive and on a zigzag mission to find revenge and redemption. He’s just run into the Brotherhood and is faced with options: travel to King’s Landing to put a sword in his heinous brother, or head north with the BWB in the fight against the Others -- a journey which will lead him to Winterfell and back to Sansa. We’re going to see the latter.

Now, the part of me that wants to climb the Hound like a tree (thanks, Internet, for that wonderful meme) wants to see SanSan work romantically -- and it absolutely COULD work, which is the beautiful, bittersweet, strange thing about it. That is what makes them so compelling. Whether it WILL is another thing entirely. I’d be thrilled if a stronger Sansa and softer Sandor found a way to realise / negotiate their feelings for one another, but I think the discourse is more likely (in the show, anyway) to swing towards the Hound swearing his sword to Sansa and pledging his allegiance to House Stark. By extension, he will probably die a heroic, tragic death, and will find the redemption he seeks.

Their dynamic is fascinating and the two of them absolutely need some sort of closure. I hope it’s done well, whatever their ending. Here’s hoping there’s a little romance.

[sweetsunray]

On 10-7-2016 at 7:58 AM, tmug said:

In the books Sansa's position is safest at the Vale. (I guess it didn't make sense in the show for some odd reason) She is the last known Stark to be accounted for and alive, she is the heir to Winterfell as far as anyone knows.

The only way she gets captured or escapes is if she willingly leaves the Vale which would be a gigantic risk for the Lords of the Vale. They know her value and I don't even think Robin's command they would let her free.

So if SanSan does happen in the books, Sansa would pretty much have to leave the Vale like she forgot her purse back at King's Landing or something. 

Dont get me wrong, I liken Sansa and Sandor reuniting rather than Arya and Sandor. There was a meaning to Arya sparing the Hound's life, happens both in book and show (which means it is significant to the 'end game' in my opinion). Sansa could atone for her not trusting the Hound based on his appearance alone, in hindsight Sansa would have been better off escaping with Sandor at the Blackwater battle rather than escaping with Littlefinger after the Purple Wedding. The man who valiantly saved her from getting assaulted to the other man who handed her over to be assaulted. One is a beastly, burned dog and the other is a frail, squeaky-clean bird of a man.

 

The Vale won't stay safe. It's going the be very bad in the Vale. Some speculate murder plots, others that Sansa's identity will be reveald. I have argued that there a lot of foreshadowing is present for a natural disaster involving that big ass 'Mountain' called the Giant's Lance to wreak havoc (avalanche) and that the Mountain Clans will attack the Bloody Gate and for the first time in history will breach the Bloody Gate (because the natural disaster will damage it enough to make it less defensible). Lord fo Chaos LF will see all his plans go to hell by chaos not of his doing imo. Sansa will witness most of this part. Harry ends up dead. LF ends up dead. And Sansa will be extracted from the Vale, likely by the Mad Mouse, who could then run into the "gravedigger".

[Newstar]

15 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

snip

I never get tired of people making excuses for Sandor's Blackwater ridiculousness and somehow trying to frame it as noble (it's right up there with people who argue that Sandor holding Sansa at knifepoint was super romantic), but this isn't a thread on whether Sandor is a cowardly, opportunistic asshole (and let's just say that GRRM didn't call him a "villain" for nothing). Rather than respond point by point, therefore, I'll reiterate that the argument that Sandor is going to unveil LF's betrayal of Ned for Sansa and that this will be what leads her to turn on LF rests on a number of assumptions completely unsupported by anything in the text or the show:

1. Despite being preoccupied with fighting, Sandor noticed LF holding a dagger to Ned's throat and took special note of this as something odd or unexpected.

2. Sandor found out or is clever enough to figure out that LF was in league with Ned and betrayed him.

3. Sandor had knowledge or suspicions about LF and the circumstances of Ned's arrest despite not mentioning one word of this to Sansa in ACOK (Season 2).

4. Sandor dislikes and distrusts LF.

5. Sandor will come to dislike and distrust LF in the future and try to save Sansa from his influence.

6. Sansa doesn't know that LF is a lying snake who cannot be trusted.

7. Sansa doesn't know that LF was complicit with the queen and did not oppose her father's arrest and imprisonment.

8. Sandor has information that would change Sansa's opinion of LF.

Again, with a bit of critical analysis and skepticism, the theory completely falls apart. Really, though, if Sansa's storyline is all about her taking charge of her own life and leveraging her own talents and experiences to become a player, a scenario where she needs to be rescued from her own illusions about LF and to be saved from LF not by herself, but by a dude who's not even a player would completely undermine that arc.

Fans who on the one hand boast about what an amazing player Sansa will show herself to be and on the other confidently claim that Sandor will shatter Sansa's illusions about LF and rescue her from LF's sinister clutches are suffering from some serious cognitive dissonance, LOL. Never gets old.

[Le Cygne]

Westeros is a hard world, and having an ally like Sandor is a wonderful thing. Thank goodness Sansa does.

She fed Ramsay to the hounds. And now perhaps she'll feed LF to another Hound.

[mormont]

Don't feed the trolls, folks.

[Meera of Tarth]

.

 

 

[wolfsbae]

N/A

[Masha]

58 minutes ago, Newstar said:

I never get tired of people making excuses for Sandor's Blackwater ridiculousness and somehow trying to frame it as noble (it's right up there with people who argue that Sandor holding Sansa at knifepoint was super romantic), but this isn't a thread on whether Sandor is a cowardly, opportunistic asshole (and let's just say that GRRM didn't call him a "villain" for nothing). Rather than respond point by point, therefore, I'll reiterate that the argument that Sandor is going to unveil LF's betrayal of Ned for Sansa and that this will be what leads her to turn on LF rests on a number of assumptions completely unsupported by anything in the text or the show:

1. Despite being preoccupied with fighting, Sandor noticed LF holding a dagger to Ned's throat and took special note of this as something odd or unexpected.

2. Sandor found out or is clever enough to figure out that LF was in league with Ned and betrayed him.

3. Sandor had knowledge or suspicions about LF and the circumstances of Ned's arrest despite not mentioning one word of this to Sansa in ACOK (Season 2).

4. Sandor dislikes and distrusts LF.

5. Sandor will come to dislike and distrust LF in the future and try to save Sansa from his influence.

6. Sansa doesn't know that LF is a lying snake who cannot be trusted.

7. Sansa doesn't know that LF was complicit with the queen and did not oppose her father's arrest and imprisonment.

8. Sandor has information that would change Sansa's opinion of LF.

Again, with a bit of critical analysis and skepticism, the theory completely falls apart. Really, though, if Sansa's storyline is all about her taking charge of her own life and leveraging her own talents and experiences to become a player, a scenario where she needs to be rescued from her own illusions about LF and to be saved from LF not by herself, but by a dude who's not even a player would completely undermine that arc.

Fans who on the one hand boast about what an amazing player Sansa will show herself to be and on the other confidently claim that Sandor will shatter Sansa's illusions about LF and rescue her from LF's sinister clutches are suffering from some serious cognitive dissonance, LOL. Never gets old.

Don't bother. They need to cling to their theories. After all there are people on this forum, who still claim that Lady Stoneheart (aka undead Catelyn Stark ) will show up on the show, any time now, and they will write a page worth's of comments defending their theory based on rumors and innuendos.

I find SanSan theory completely disturbing. First of all, if LF is considered to be a Pedo because he flirts and crushes on under-aged Sansa, why Sandor is not considered to be a Pedo but a Romantic, after all he kisses the same under-aged Sansa and implies they run off together? And why does Sandor DESERVE his happy ending in Sansa, who also suffered a lot and whose choice in man now limited to him and LF and apparently she deserves him?

If Sansa survives at the end, I'd rather for her to remain unmarried and have free choice at the end. Just because she is beautiful, why does she have to be someone else's happy ending and reward and not her own? (I am talking about both Tyrion and Sandor here).

 

Everytime people start talking about "well he suffered a lot, he deserves his happy ending" it enrages me. What about the pretty girl, why does she have to sacrifice and learn to look "beyond the surface" and not the guy? After all, the same Tyrion doesn't give poor Penny a second look.

[Woman of War]

51 minutes ago, Newstar said:

 

Fans who on the one hand boast about what an amazing player Sansa will show herself to be and on the other confidently claim that Sandor will shatter Sansa's illusions about LF and rescue her from LF's sinister clutches are suffering from some serious cognitive dissonance, LOL. Never gets old.

This! 

So much this!!! Thank you!

[Le Cygne]

Sansa's romantic feelings for Sandor, and Sandor's romantic feelings for Sansa, were actually written by the author, not readers. That's not a theory, it's already happened. The speculation is, there will be more. But that's based on what the author has written, too. She pretended they kissed and placed him in the marriage bed in her last chapter. He died sobbing about the pretty little bird. The author is writing a romance for them, based on La Belle et la Bete, and said there's more to come...

Show, they've been hinting a lot, but this scene in particular (a parallel to La Belle et la Bete) calls out "to be continued"... And now he's back, and heading north.

Also, the story is focused on Sansa choosing Sandor. Men were chosen for her, but this time, she gets to choose. Happiness is wished for both characters, it's mutual.

[sweetsunray]

3 minutes ago, Masha said:

I find SanSan theory completely disturbing. First of all, if LF is considered to be a Pedo because he flirts and crushes on under-aged Sansa, why Sandor is not considered to be a Pedo but a Romantic, after all he kisses the same under-aged Sansa and implies they run off together? And why does Sandor DESERVE his happy ending in Sansa, who also suffered a lot and whose choice in man now limited to him and LF?

SanSan is not about what Sandor deserves. It's about recognizing that's who Sansa wants. Sansa's crushing on him. And if it was only Sansa crushing on him, I wouldn't say Sansa deserves Sandor either... They're both crushing on each other.

Also, Sandor did not actually kiss Sansa (not in the books, not in the show). He only proposed to run off together.. Sansa made the kiss in the books up. That's why we know she wants to be kissed by him. That's why it's called the Unkiss. And exactly because Sandor didn't actually kiss her, he's not a Pedo.

[Masha]

5 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

SanSan is not about what Sandor deserves. It's about recognizing that's who Sansa wants. Sansa's crushing on him. And if it was only Sansa crushing on him, I wouldn't say Sansa deserves Sandor either... They're both crushing on each other.

Also, Sandor did not actually kiss Sansa (not in the books, not in the show). He only proposed to run off together.. Sansa made the kiss in the books up. That's why we know she wants to be kissed by him. That's why it's called the Unkiss. And exactly because Sandor didn't actually kiss her, he's not a Pedo.

I am responding about the comments in this topic, there are couple of comments in this thread that basically say that "Sandor deserves Sansa as his happy ending because he suffered".

And FYI I hate this literal trope about utterly ugly but nice guy gets the most beautiful girl because she looks beyond the surface. I am only good with it because, unlike 99% of fiction literature, GRRM is following it up with ugly Brianne and pretty Jaime romance.

And FYI, in the show, Sansa literally not daydreaming about Sandor all the time, so their romance in the show will come out of nowhere as "his just rewards"

[sweetsunray]

1 minute ago, Masha said:

And FYI I hate this literal trope about utterly ugly but nice guy gets the most beautiful girl because she looks beyond the surface.

Euhm... handsome hot guy gets beautiful girl isn't even more of a trope?

[wolfsbae]

5 minutes ago, Masha said:

And FYI I hate this literal trope about utterly ugly but nice guy gets the most beautiful girl because she looks beyond the surface.

It isn't a trope because it isn't as simple as that: he is ugly, and he isn't particularly nice.

[Le Cygne]

And no one who likes the romance actually said Sandor deserves Sansa, either. Just checked.

Actually most are saying it would be nice because both of them seem to want it, it's mutual.

[Masha]

7 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Euhm... handsome hot guy gets beautiful girl isn't even more of a trope?

Not really, since its scientifically proven that people like people who look similar to them. Its ugly/pretty thats an aberration

But in many books, all I see are ugly guy who is smart and good and gets all the beautiful girls who unexpectedly choose to revalue their opinions and go with ugly guy as "his happy ending" or that ugly guy gets the best girls (aka Vorkosigan). 

So far, other than in GOT, I haven't seen a story about ugly girl who got her happy ending in beautiful guy. 

Maybe, its because the beautiful girls are not a main character that we emphasize with, like Sansa, so we don't care about their happy ending.  

[sweetsunray]

6 minutes ago, Masha said:

I am responding about the comments in this topic, there are couple of comments in this thread that basically say that "Sandor deserves Sansa as his happy ending because he suffered".

Well, you made a general "they" and a general statement about "SanSan"...which is erronous. MIght help if you simply quoted the "Sandor deserves" it and then make your argument against it to the relevant poster, instead of making generalizing comments about a certain romantic connection made in the books between 2 characters.

And your arguments are still a lie: Sandor didn't kiss Sansa, period.

[sweetsunray]

2 minutes ago, Masha said:

Its usually the case too, but far more realistic.

When I look around myself I find that's not really a realistic case at all. Plenty of handsome men have a life partner that does not seem as hot on first sight, and vice versa with hot women too. Of course, I find that people who strike me as handsome on first looks basis may appear just bland to me at better acquaintance, while the less striking person becomes more handsome. I'm not denying that facial looks are part of sexual attraction, but it's not the sole thing. Nor am I l claiming that personality alone makes someone sexually attractive. IME it's somewhere in the middle, and other than that it's personal preference.

[wolfsbae]

12 minutes ago, Masha said:

But in many books literature, all I see is a ugly guy who is smart and good and gets all the beautiful girls who unexpectedly choose to revalue their opinions and go with ugly guy as "his happy ending" or that ugly guy gets the best girls (aka Vorkosigan).

You can't say that this is how you see SanSan?

[Masha]

25 minutes ago, Sophie of House Stark said:

You can't say that this is how you see SanSan?

I see SanSan as ewww. At this point, I don't care for Sansa to even end up with someone, anyone, as long as he is not old enough to be her father or super-ugly/beast to her beauty. I'd rather have Sansa, at the finale, if she survives, left with open options aka "to be continued" on her romantic/wedding efforts because all her options are not good for her.

People ship JonxSansa, because at this point, Sansa has no "normal" guys left to ship her with. Her only options, other than Jon, are Sandor (old, violent and ugly), LF (old, sociopath) and Tyrion (old, ugly, prostitute obsessed).

Why Sansa's happy ending couldn't be - ending up with Winterfell and not being forced to marry just because?