SanSan next season?

[OldGimletEye]

1 hour ago, Darksky said:

60 hours worth of footage and Arya mentioned him twice. Jon mentioned her a total of 0 times. What a special bond they have, Show Arya and Jon were not meant to be so close. It's the way the showrunners decided to do their relationship.

Well, nice try, with the attempt to do the ol’ Texas Two Step around the evidence that rebuts your prior prior assertion.

But, if Arya and Jon were not meant to have a special bond, then why does Maisie mention it when GOT was just beginning? And why does the point about how she feels about Jon seemingly get reinforced in season 6, if it were meant to be nothing?

1 hour ago, Darksky said:

Jon and Sansa have been portrayed as closer than Jon and Arya. Why would they have Jon's trajectory cross with Sansa's and not Arya? At least, as a first Snow-Stark reunion. Maybe they determined it on the fact the former look good next to each other. It's aesthetically pleasing to the viewersn to see two popular pretty faces interact. And it's a drama show, tension is necessary to keep people interested.

Are they though? How many times did Jon mention Sansa before she showed up to Castle Black? And tell us about the special present Jon gave Sansa before departing for the NW. And tell us about how Sansa carried that special present around with her throughout GOT.

Even, if in the books, Sansa and Jon cross paths earlier than Jon and Arya do, it wouldn’t mean that the basic relationship between Jon and Arya would change. I doubt Martin would do that, given how he has built up Jon’s and Arya’s relationship, from almost the beginning, just as he has put a lot of up front work in Sansa and Sandor’s relationship.

I mean I get that some people believe that InstaFriend glue and InstaFriend dissolver are real products sold by BatFinger industries, or whatever, but really it’s a joke. People just don’t pick up these bonds and then drop them over night. Maybe D & D think so, but GRRM evidently doesn’t. And I say on that point GRRM is being more realistic here.

And anyway, I highly doubt D & D’s decision to put Sansa in the North, as early as they did, had much to do with showing how Jon developed a closer relationship with Sansa over Arya. Fact is that Jon and Sansa are seemingly going to have a bit of a strained relationship next season. I find it hard to believe that Jon and Arya would have that kind of strained relationship.

D & D’s decision to pair Sansa with Jon seems to have had more to do with them wanting to scrap Sansa’s Vale arc more than anything.

If you are right though, and I don’t think you are, then the question I have is why did D & D decide to reconfigure the basic relationships between Arya, Jon, Sansa, and Sandor? Well, I guess the reason was to get "two pretty faces together". What a dumb reason to reconfigure these deep relationships that Martin took time to build. That's pretty shallow. And it will probably work out as well as Robb & Talisa.

1 hour ago, Darksky said:

Jon and Arya are not the same people they were in season 1. I doubt the understanding and the deep bond would be there even if they had established it during their time apart.

Except, they seemingly decided to reinforce the point in season six with Arya’s “I have four brothers” comment.

[Le Cygne]

22 hours ago, TheKnightOfJests said:

There is always the chance of them not throwing it away. Like maybe and episode begins with her frantically searching through her old room trying to find something. She pulls out the cloak, and we fade to a "Previously on Game of Thrones" we see all the Sansa and Sandor scenes meshed together, and then the intro.

The cloak is symbolic, it's already served its purpose in the books, too. Sansa remembers over and over again because he has that place in her heart now. The heart is stressed a lot in their story.

[Le Cygne]

46 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

And anyway, I highly doubt D & D’s decision to put Sansa in the North, as early as they did, had much to do with showing how Jon developed a closer relationship with Sansa over Arya. Fact is that Jon and Sansa are seemingly going to have a bit of a strained relationship next season. I find it hard to believe that Jon and Arya would have that kind of strained relationship.

D & D’s decision to pair Sansa with Jon seems to have had more to do with them wanting to scrap Sansa’s Vale arc more than anything.

If you are right though, and I don’t think you are, then the question I have is why did D & D decided to reconfigure the basic relationships between Arya, Jon, Sansa, and Sandor? Well, I guess the reason was to get "two pretty faces together". What a dumb reason to reconfigure these deep relationships that Martin took time to build. That's pretty shallow. And it will probably work out as well as Robb & Talisa.

Agreed. And reconfigure them after they spent so much time establishing them, which is being dismissed, but should not be. They went to a lot of trouble to show the connections. Maybe they didn't do such a great job, but it's obvious they tried, over and over again, season to season.

Sansa is there because they swapped her for Jeyne. Might as well ship Jeyne and Jon.

Siblings. Mistrust in a BIG WAY. Jealousy and anger, they said. Reminds him of his stepmother (not a good thing!), they said. All season long. This is NOT the way close bonds or romances are portrayed. Want to see a close bond and a romance, that's been set up for season 7, with someone else.

And the pretty with pretty thing is boring. Beauty and the Beast stories are super popular. And I think she looks better with Rory. Like the showrunners said, "good thing" he's taller. And she has a very mature look to her. She's so much bigger, she overpowers Kit. He looks nice with someone like Rose Leslie.

[OldGimletEye]

14 hours ago, Darksky said:

Martin is awful at writing romance and sex scenes tbh.

Okay, maybe references to fat pink masts, or whatever, isn’t the most erotic thing ever written.

But, he surely does a better job developing interesting human relationships and bonds.

GRRM develops interesting bonds between characters for reasons beyond some shallow “getting two pretty faces together”. For instance, much of Arya’s and Jon’s special bond has to do with the fact that they are both outsiders in a sense. Jaime’s and Brienne’s bond is in part because Brienne helps Jaime to find his lost honor. He was the guy that looked up to Arthur Dayne after all. Sansa and Sandor’s bond has a lot to do with Sansa discovering that while Prince Schmukatelli may look like a Corvette, he might actually run like a Pinto and on Sandor’s part, a lot of it, has to do with the fact that he dreamed of being a knight as a boy and because Sansa might be the first person in his life to ever show him any compassion.

And you want to imply D & D do a better job here? Because why? They put “two pretty faces together”? Frickin puuuleeeze.

 

[CrypticWeirwood]

Do we really have to keep going on and on, and on and on and on and on and on, about all this fanfic business of who's going to be getting it on with whom?  The moderators have had to squelch this sort of “speculative romance fantasies” more than once here.

[Le Cygne]

La Belle et la Bete is a better story than pretty faces...

[Le Cygne]

"Romance fantasies"... you mean like this:

Quote

As the boy's lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt, when his cruel mouth pressed down on her own. He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky. He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak.

That's called canon.

The author said the kiss is important and there's more to come. He asked for their picture for the calendar like La Belle et la Bete (a classic romance), and has it hanging by the door in his office. Their last scene together on the show was written as a parallel to the film. He put another picture of them titled SanSan on his website. He said he wanted the actor who played the Beast on his old show to play the Hound (that was before this show, he chose Rory). He said "there's something there" books and show. The showrunners have commented on the relationship, too ("he's attracted to her," "good thing" he's taller than her, "much more to come" and more... one of their writers said their relationship is "a big part of the show"... ) and more...

[Darksky]

^and here I was thinking David and Dan get dismissed all the time on here, so why would you take their word for anything?

[Le Cygne]

One might ask why you are dismissing what they say. They have indicated repeatedly that Jon and Sansa is not a romance. And have indicated repeatedly that Sansa and Sandor is.

Sandor died thinking about the pretty sister... and you said there's nothing since season 2. Benioff and Weiss wrote that scene. Why dismiss it? They even added the "happy memory" line. And much more.

Jon and Sansa had, according to them, mistrust, jealousy, anger, and no connection prior to this. She reminds him of Catelyn (not a good memory). She has sibling rivalry issues. Not a romance.

[Dolorous Gabe]

2 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

Are they though? How many times did Jon mention Sansa before she showed up to Castle Black? And tell us about the special present Jon gave Sansa before departing for the NW. And tell us about how Sansa carried that special present around with her throughout GOT.

Plus, at Castle Black one of their first conversations is an apology session for how each acted around the other when they were younger.

Special bond, indeed.

[kissdbyfire]

Possibly the only thing to look forward to in s 7, even if the character is Sandra and not Sansa. That and not having to read another line about Sans-Jon, as in, without, or Jonrya, coz really

[Darksky]

2 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Agreed. And reconfigure them after they spent so much time establishing them, which is being dismissed, but should not be. They went to a lot of trouble to show the connections. Maybe they didn't do such a great job, but it's obvious they tried, over and over again, season to season.

Sansa is there because they swapped her for Jeyne. Might as well ship Jeyne and Jon.

Siblings. Mistrust in a BIG WAY. Jealousy and anger, they said. Reminds him of his stepmother (not a good thing!), they said. All season long. This is NOT the way close bonds or romances are portrayed. Want to see a close bond and a romance, that's been set up for season 7, with someone else.

And the pretty with pretty thing is boring. Beauty and the Beast stories are super popular. And I think she looks better with Rory. Like the showrunners said, "good thing" he's taller. And she has a very mature look to her. She's so much bigger, she overpowers Kit. He looks nice with someone like Rose Leslie.

An inch taller is considered so much bigger? Just because she's a bit taller she suddenly overpowers a man? lol

Seems like some fans have a conservative outlook on height difference in couples. Guy always has to be way taller eh? Why is JaimexBrienne so popular then?

 

[Le Cygne]

Well, seems like it mattered to Benioff and Weiss. During this scene they said this:

Quote

Weiss:  It's a good thing that Rory is as tall as he is… Sophie must have grown a foot in the first year of the show…  Luckily she's playing against Rory who's also...

Benioff:  Yeah, he's genuinely massive.

SanSan, the height turns her on. Her dream, a thousand times, is of a tall strong man kissing her.

He's a big guy. She likes big guys. That's the story. In her dream with him naked in bed with her, she says he is "bigger than Tyrion"... she calls him an "imp" and she calls Littlefinger a "small man"... she calls Sandor tall and strong... and dreams of his kiss. It all adds up to... a story. Sansa has a preference.

[Darksky]

You're confusing book Sansa with show Sansa

[Le Cygne]

Wait, so Benioff and Weiss wrote the books? They are the ones saying it's a good thing Rory is taller.

And they are also saying no way Jon and Sansa is a romance.

Dismissing Sansa and Sandor on a forum does not make Jon and Sansa a romance.

[Darksky]

8 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Wait, so Benioff and Weiss wrote the books? They are the ones saying it's a good thing Rory is taller.

And they are also saying no way Jon and Sansa is a romance.

Dismissing Sansa and Sandor on a forum does not make Jon and Sansa a romance.

Dismissing one doesn't make the other true but you're dismissing what's happened on screen with Jon and Sansa  and hanging on every word said by known trolls, David, Dan, Sophie and Kit. And I say trolls with affection. Let the art speak for itself.

Last off-season was all about Jon's death. They played it up to the max. This time, it's about a potential Jon and Sansa rivalry.

[Le Cygne]

I'm not dismissing what's on screen, I'm agreeing with the showrunners when they tell me it's sibling rivalry, mistrust, jealousy and anger, bad memories of a stepmother who wished he'd never been born, etc. It's not a romance.

[Darksky]

Where and when do you see that? When they have their heartfelt conversation by the fire? when she gives him a fancy cloak she made? when he compliments her on her dress? when she tells him he is a Stark to her? when he kisses her on the forehead, linger on with his hand on her nexk and looks at her lips? when he makes eye contact with her during the KitN scene? when she apologises twice? when they team up to retake their home? when he tells her he won't let Ramsay touch her again and will protect her? when they smile and laugh in each other's presence?

Jon has smiled more this season than all previous seasons combined. And I mean genuine, big smiles.

[Le Cygne]

Oh, my. Somewhere amidst the lies and patronizing big brother stuff and smirking jealous sister stuff and be like dad so I can get revenge and lack of communication and sorry I was always rotten to you our entire lives and raised voices and no you can't protect me and ... must have missed a great romance. Despite everyone including the showrunners saying it's sibling rivalry, mistrust, jealousy and anger, bad stepmom memories, etc.

I remember this story with Jon and Ygritte where he smiled... that was an actual romance, and pretty good.

[Meera of Tarth]

3 minutes ago, Darksky said:

Where and when do you see that? When they have their heartfelt conversation by the fire? when she gives him a fancy cloak she made? when he compliments her on her dress? when she tells him he is a Stark to her? when he kisses her on the forehead, linger on with his hand on her nexk and looks at her lips? when he makes eye contact with her during the KitN scene? when she apologises twice? when they team up to retake their home? when he tells her he won't let Ramsay touch her again and will protect her? when they smile and laugh in each other's presence?

Jon has smiled more this season than all previous seasons combined. And I mean genuine, big smiles.

Sophie Turner said Sansa was jealous of Jon in more than one interview, recently. That means sibling rivalry, not romance. And that doesn't mean it will end badly, it's just unkown territory, but definitely not romance as I see it.