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The Ultimate Winds of Winter Resource

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Yeah, if more than 7 books are needed then it becomes even more unlikely that GRRM will ever finish this series. Thank goodness for the show. In all likelihood, the show will give us the only ending we are ever going to get.

 

1 hour ago, SuperMario said:

So back to the original point, I have no idea why people continue to postulate over so many things that will ultimately be dead ends.

I think some people secretly wish GRRM never finishes so that their outrageous crackpots get to live on forever. While there is decent amount activity over in the General subforum, most of it is crackpot garbage. The best analysis was done years ago.

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I've started to look at it this way:

The books we've already got has made an amazing set-up. A huge and intricated story is constructed, within a very complex and well-thought-out world, and containing tons of interesting characters, locations and events.

If the series is never finished, it would become legendary. All this hype, all the unfinished business, and the amazing popularity... it'd be a literary Titanic, which was saved from being a historical footnote by the fact of its sinking. One of the most popular and well-received fantasy stories ever told, so huge and complex that its own author could not finish it. There would be written books about its possible endings, trying to piece together a resolution from Martin's masterful set-up, and there would be several unofficial sequels by esteemed authors trying to finish the series, coming out for decades afterwards. This has happened to some extent with Stieg Larsson's Millennium trilogy, and Douglas Adams' The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy "trilogy" - both have seen unofficial sequels following the author's death. With the great popularity of ASoIaF, and the fact that the books do not form self-contained stories by their own, it seems inevitable that other fantasy authors wouldn't try to follow George R.R. Martin's footsteps and attempt to complete his grand vision for generations to come.

It wouldn't be as good as Martin's own version, of course, but it would provide a very interesting case for future generations.

Edited by Kyll.Ing.

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We are kind of starting to do the things here that get these kinds of posts closed, me included. So, yes, let's only discuss actual information related to the book that comes out, not speculate or any of the other things, because I like this thread and do not want to see it locked.

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2 hours ago, The Bear Who Knocks said:

The way he mentions TWoW dead last after literally everything else tells me nothings changed. Especially with all that hard Wildcards promotion and excitement for it. TWoW sounds like something he nearly forgot about.

I noticed that as well.  A long list of activities he's excited about and engaged in and looking forward to working on.  Then, Winds of Winter as the last item.  That speaks volumes.  

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35 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I noticed that as well.  A long list of activities he's excited about and engaged in and looking forward to working on.  Then, Winds of Winter as the last item.  That speaks volumes.  

In Australia when I was a child we had a puppet with a pencil for a nose on tv.  His name was Mr squiggle.  Mr squiggle took seemingly random doodles and turned them into pictures.

There was also a blackboard Mr squiggle drew on. whenever the pencil Nosed puppet took too long the black boa....

"HURRY UUUUUUUUUP"

Would interup...

 

HURRRRRRY UPPPPPP

 

...

Edited by The Dragon has three heads

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Even though I should have known better by now, I think TWOW edges closer to completion.

GRRM was obviously being coy, he knows everything will be interpreted as the Winds related, so why risk mentioning Winds and later saying he hopes for things to calm soon. 

Check the other things he lists, things already done, Wild Card deal, he is either negotiating or finished negotiating and now waits for authors (or picks authors) anyway not something that time consuming. Reread, I hope he isn't doing it himself, if not, it's set in motion, no pile of work there. Since HBO stuff is obviously in pre-production whatever his role will be it shouldn't be time intensive right now.

So big problem is Winds, and he can't be calm without Winds done, or at least he wouldn't phrase it that way to the public, so he hopes Winds will be done soon. He knows about risk of making bold estimates of his writing so he probably past the point of revisions (which were always his biggest timesink) so editing, filling out of the details plus eventually putting to paper already settled end point which is by now to late to be changed given the organic flow of events leading up to it and the already definitive vision of the series finale.

So I will put it somewhere in autumn this year, as that math guy predicted like 4 years ago.  

 

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Based on that last post, where he lists what appears to be the order of things he is most excited about and involved in at present, spending most time on the Santa Fe soundstage/studio and Wild Cards, and expresses no excitement about Winds, indeed, he has not expressed anything I would really call excitement about the upcoming book in a long time, at least in comments I have seen...... I am moving my prediction forward to 2018 or 2019. 

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George made it abundantly clear that he does not want to talk about WINDS until there is something concrete to report. He has said that a 2017 release is possible, which is encouraging, but not certain, which is less so.

As we've said many (thousands) of times before, taking GRRM's statements and running them through mystical translations and applying tea leaves to the situation is not very helpful and, by precedent, frequently wrong. In January 2011 people were crying that the book would never be done and George's statements were negative and he was talking too much about Wild Cards and he'd sold out to the TV company and the book was out six months later.

Edited by Werthead

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53 minutes ago, Werthead said:

George made it abundantly clear that he does not want to talk about WINDS until there is something concrete to report. He has said that a 2017 release is possible, which is encouraging, but not certain, which is less so.

As we've said many (thousands) of times before, taking GRRM's statements and running them through mystical translations and applying tea leaves to the situation is not very helpful and, by precedent, frequently wrong. In January 2011 people were crying that the book would never be done and George's statements were negative and he was talking too much about Wild Cards and he'd sold to the TV company and the book was out six months later.

That was after what nearly 5 years since Affc? Which had heaps of unresolved stories and where he said it was only a year away from adwd because "most of it was written"  

Here we are 6 years later in the same place but with a show thats going to end with the same ending of a 20 yr old series because he got distracted by other projects. Its not long term fans fault. Overall they've been so patient and forgiving with him and he just seems to shrug it off and go the George Lucas path of selling out. 

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1 hour ago, Werthead said:

George made it abundantly clear that he does not want to talk about WINDS until there is something concrete to report. He has said that a 2017 release is possible, which is encouraging, but not certain, which is less so.

As we've said many (thousands) of times before, taking GRRM's statements and running them through mystical translations and applying tea leaves to the situation is not very helpful and, by precedent, frequently wrong. In January 2011 people were crying that the book would never be done and George's statements were negative and he was talking too much about Wild Cards and he'd sold out to the TV company and the book was out six months later.

As I am the only one who took this with any dose of optimism and only one who forecast the 2017, I will take it you were talking to me. 

I don't really think he said it that way. He talked about Winds numerous times, he just said he won't play games or be cryptic about announcing that he finished. He means that he hopes to be able to relax soon after he finishes TWOW but it might not come as soon as he hopes now. His typical "I think I can finish soon but I have been wrong before" so he doesn't want to get ahead of himself. No one can be certain about anything much less something as complex as GRRM's writing process and he know he gains nothing by sounding certain and he can lose a lot if it turns out wrong. So he would never say that the book will be certainly out in some year, so your first point is wrong. As I said it would be stupid move for him to do. He will be concrete only when the book is done, so this is as close to the optimistic announcement as we are going to get before the "son of Kong is dead"

I understand the people bothered by Wild Cards stuff, it does seem slightly unnerving to me. No one can tell GRRM what to do or what to blog about but no one can tell the people what to be bothered about either. I would like that GRRM blogs about ASOIAF more often but I understand why he choses not to. I think he can work quite hard and still get behind, but it would serve him better with people who disagree to be more transparent with his progress, no one has the right to be upset because he scraped another ten chapters and set himself back three months it's him book it will bear his name and we all want the best possible book, but people believe he is not writing and they are upset.

 

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On the Wild Cards series: GRRM spent many years both writing for and editing that series while working on other projects including ASOIAF. After ASOIAF, it's the project closest to his heart, and it pre-dates ASOIAF so it's been part of his life for longer. But he hasn't written a word for the series in years. He still co-edits it, but he dropped the writing to focus on ASOIAF. That shows his priority is ASOIAF.

Now, some of you may want him to stop editing the series too, but that's not going to happen. It's not going to happen because there are lots of other writers involved in the Wild Cards collective and GRRM's involvement would impact on them. He'll make personal sacrifices to finish ASOIAF, but he's not going to make decisions that let other people down. And whether you like it or not, I believe he'll feel that pulling out of Wild Cards altogether would be letting other people down.

Also, you can't have it both ways. If GRRM was 'selling out' he wouldn't be doing other projects, including Wild Cards, that bring in infinitely less money than a new ASOIAF book would make. 'Selling out' would have meant selling the rights to a film company, not to HBO. 'Selling out' would mean he would be talking about expanding the series to ten or twelve books, not desperately hoping to keep it to seven.

All of these points have been made repeatedly before and remain true: they sometimes have to be reiterated. Nobody in the world wants TWOW finished more than GRRM does. No, not even you. Yes, really. Be patient, and if you can't be patient, deal with your frustration in healthy ways.

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1 hour ago, mormont said:

On the Wild Cards series: GRRM spent many years both writing for and editing that series while working on other projects including ASOIAF. After ASOIAF, it's the project closest to his heart, and it pre-dates ASOIAF so it's been part of his life for longer. But he hasn't written a word for the series in years. He still co-edits it, but he dropped the writing to focus on ASOIAF. That shows his priority is ASOIAF.

Now, some of you may want him to stop editing the series too, but that's not going to happen. It's not going to happen because there are lots of other writers involved in the Wild Cards collective and GRRM's involvement would impact on them. He'll make personal sacrifices to finish ASOIAF, but he's not going to make decisions that let other people down. And whether you like it or not, I believe he'll feel that pulling out of Wild Cards altogether would be letting other people down.

Also, you can't have it both ways. If GRRM was 'selling out' he wouldn't be doing other projects, including Wild Cards, that bring in infinitely less money than a new ASOIAF book would make. 'Selling out' would have meant selling the rights to a film company, not to HBO. 'Selling out' would mean he would be talking about expanding the series to ten or twelve books, not desperately hoping to keep it to seven.

All of these points have been made repeatedly before and remain true: they sometimes have to be reiterated. Nobody in the world wants TWOW finished more than GRRM does. No, not even you. Yes, really. Be patient, and if you can't be patient, deal with your frustration in healthy ways.

I really wish we had the ability to "like" posts. 

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11 hours ago, Unknownfinger said:

I really wish we had the ability to "like" posts. 

Every one of us have been the blackboard in a moment in our lives in this forum or off it.

We all, I believe, see the potential for it to be one of the stories of our time.  We believe our passion for the saga will drive him onward.  I believe in him, his vision. He knows his career will be defined by these books, the tv show(s) will always have come from his work, his worlds.  

To finish the story(s) is to properly  define their perspective places in modern literature and also probably a part in all of our lives, and his.  That's pretty amazing.

But every now and then we catch ourselves being the blackboard.  Such is life.

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35 minutes ago, Túrin the Turambar said:

surely you all have already read this comment on his blog? http://grrm.livejournal.com/527454.html?thread=25877342#t25877342

he really seems to work hard, but a 1000 page book seems to take more time than he has.

Thanks.  That's interesting, I hadn't seen the exchange.  

Edited by Cas Stark

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52 minutes ago, Túrin the Turambar said:

surely you all have already read this comment on his blog? http://grrm.livejournal.com/527454.html?thread=25877342#t25877342

he really seems to work hard, but a 1000 page book seems to take more time than he has.

Thanks for the link. For someone who claims to have cleared his schedule of pretty much everything non-ASOIAF about 2 years ago according to other blog posts from him, his schedule sure seems pretty full.

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6 hours ago, SuperMario said:

Thanks for the link. For someone who claims to have cleared his schedule of pretty much everything non-ASOIAF about 2 years ago according to other blog posts from him, his schedule sure seems pretty full.

It is like he relapsed.

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Can we please keep this thread reduced to posting news, and not posting speculations and/or complaining that Winds is out yet?  

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