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BryndenBFish

The Ultimate Winds of Winter Resource

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10 minutes ago, Rhodan said:

Not even moderators have intervened on this thread yet. Shame how deep the forum has fallen :-).

Why?  It's now an established fact that yet another year will go by without Winds of Winter, meaning in the best possible scenario, a release some time in 2019, it will have been 8 years since Dance.  It is an extremely reasonable interpretation that when the author repeatedly stated this book was expected years ago, that something has gone drastically wrong.  I would go so far as to say it's an objective fact at this point that something has gone drastically wrong in the writing.

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20 minutes ago, Rhodan said:

Not even moderators have intervened on this thread yet. Shame how deep the forum has fallen :-).

Because the truth always hurts. Not even Baghdad Bob could spin this as positive.

The most telling thing is that he thought in 2015 he could have finished within a few months. Now, here we are in April 2018, and he already knows it won't come out this year, with presumably 4 good months left to write before it would need to be sent to the publisher.

3 years ago he is 3 months away from finishing. Fast forward 3 years later, and he is at least a year from finishing. Whoever can spin that to cast GRRM in a good light, please step up.

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24 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Whoever can spin that to cast GRRM in a good light, please step up.

Why should he be cast in a bad light? Obviously, every fan wants him to finish it so they can read the next part of the story, especially as there have been many years since the last release. But if he is struggling to finish it, you'd imagine the frustration is far greater for him for not being able to finish it than it would be for any of his fans that have been waiting since 2011 for the next instalment.

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4 hours ago, mormont said:

Again, nothing new there. That's been his MO throughout the writing of the entire series: in fact, he has done less of this than he did when the books were being released at a faster pace. The idea that the delay is about poor time allocation or not making writing ASoIaF a priority is just not a credible explanation. The problem clearly goes far deeper than that. 

(It is, though, a very easy way to allocate blame, which as noted I understand makes some people feel better.)


I'm sorry, but the "he's always done this" sounds good on surface appeal but it crashes the moment you think deeper about it.
I'm in my 40s, and I find myself unable to do what I've always done in my 20's and 30's, because I got older. I can't eat the way I used to. I can't play sports the way I used to. In fact I've had to cut down the frequency of playing sports because my body requires more time to recover, so I've had to cut down on sports that I don't like as much so I can keep doing the ones I love. I imagine I'll have to make more changes when I get to my 60s

No one can keep the same pace of production in their 60s as they did in their 40s, it's foolish to try and one has to prioritize. It's clear to me that GRRM has done a poor job of prioritizing and adjusting.  Him trying to do what he's always done is precisely part of the problem.

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Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? 

Have a little faith, baby. Have a little faith. 

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1 minute ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? 

Have a little faith, baby. Have a little faith. 

I hope Winds of Winter is out by 2020.  I hope the show ending is satisfactory for the main characters, as in all liklihood that is the only ending anyone will get.  If Winds takes 8/9 years, then Spring we could assume might take 10/12 years, based on the progressively longer times between books.  That's as much hope as I have.

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2 hours ago, SuperMario said:

Because the truth always hurts. Not even Baghdad Bob could spin this as positive.

 

I'm as disappointed as anyone, but the fact is that GRRM has the right to take as much time as he likes to write his books. There is nothing we can do to change things. Complaining about it won't help.

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16 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I'm as disappointed as anyone, but the fact is that GRRM has the right to take as much time as he likes to write his books. There is nothing we can do to change things. Complaining about it won't help.

Of course. In the same way, we have the right to be disappointed.

Anyway, the vibes will die down as we all increasingly lose interest in the series. Until the next book comes out, at which point we will all be back here in droves.

However, when I think back to my journey through the Wheel of Time fandom, I do wonder if this fandom will follow the same course. It seemed to me that the most enjoyable, call it "obsessive" fan debates happened more or less from Lord of Chaos through to Winds of Winter or thereabouts. Towards the end it actually started dying down, as more and more mysteries were resolved and less and less remained to speculate about.

So perhaps we are at the height of ASOIAF fan theorizing right now, and after Winds solves a whole lot of mysteries for us, the fandom will gradually start fading away. That's certainly what gradually happened to Wotmania and its successor Readandfindout. So maybe we should treasure this leadup to Winds, as, apart from the flare up in discussion immediately after its release, there will probably be less to talk about post Winds than there is now.

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2 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Of course. In the same way, we have the right to be disappointed.

Anyway, the vibes will die down as we all increasingly lose interest in the series. Until the next book comes out, at which point we will all be back here in droves.

However, when I think back to my journey through the Wheel of Time fandom, I do wonder if this fandom will follow the same course. It seemed to me that the most enjoyable, call it "obsessive" fan debates happened more or less from Lord of Chaos through to Winds of Winter or thereabouts. Towards the end it actually started dying down, as more and more mysteries were resolved and less and less remained to speculate about.

So perhaps we are at the height of ASOIAF fan theorizing right now, and after Winds solves a whole lot of mysteries for us, the fandom will gradually start fading away. That's certainly what gradually happened to Wotmania its successor Readandfindout. So maybe we should treasure this leadup to Winds, as, apart from the flare up in discussion immediately after its release, there will probably be less to talk about post Winds than there is now.

Will we?  By that time the show will have wrapped, and a lot of people, and I include myself are going to be less interested in the 'journey' if it ends up with their favorite characters dead.  If Arya dies, you can count me out.  I doubt I am alone there in terms of losing interest if the ending proves all bitter and no sweet.  

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3 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Of course. In the same way, we have the right to be disappointed.

Anyway, the vibes will die down as we all increasingly lose interest in the series. Until the next book comes out, at which point we will all be back here in droves.

However, when I think back to my journey through the Wheel of Time fandom, I do wonder if this fandom will follow the same course. It seemed to me that the most enjoyable, call it "obsessive" fan debates happened more or less from Lord of Chaos through to Winds of Winter or thereabouts. Towards the end it actually started dying down, as more and more mysteries were resolved and less and less remained to speculate about.

So perhaps we are at the height of ASOIAF fan theorizing right now, and after Winds solves a whole lot of mysteries for us, the fandom will gradually start fading away. That's certainly what gradually happened to Wotmania its successor Readandfindout. So maybe we should treasure this leadup to Winds, as, apart from the flare up in discussion immediately after its release, there will probably be less to talk about post Winds than there is now.

Wheel of Time drastically dropped in quality post LOC (It actually started before LOC but it fell off a cliff afterwards), a lot of people like me dropped the series after Path of Daggers or Winter's Heart.

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3 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Will we?  By that time the show will have wrapped, and a lot of people, and I include myself are going to be less interested in the 'journey' if it ends up with their favorite characters dead.  If Arya dies, you can count me out.  I doubt I am alone there in terms of losing interest if the ending proves all bitter and no sweet.  

I've promised myself that if Arya dies I will build a bonfire of all my ASOIAF stuff outside GRRM's theater in Sante Fe.

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1 minute ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

I've promised myself that if Arya dies I will build a bonfire of all my ASOIAF stuff outside GRRM's theater in Sante Fe.

Lol, I veer from bonfire to just giving them away, but I am certainly all done with the series if Arya dies.  

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23 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I'm as disappointed as anyone, but the fact is that GRRM has the right to take as much time as he likes to write his books. There is nothing we can do to change things. Complaining about it won't help.

Oh, I have no issues with George deciding to do what he wants to do. It's his life. But as others have said, fans have a right to complain. And we especially can call him out on his lies and misrepresentations especially in the face of white knights who defend everything he says and does.

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7 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Oh, I have no issues with George deciding to do what he wants to do. It's his life. But as others have said, fans have a right to complain. And we especially can call him out on his lies and misrepresentations especially in the face of white knights who defend everything he says and does.

It seems to me based on the evidence of his various statements that it isn't an issue of GRRM 'likes and wants'...that he is taking this much time because he wants to, given his multiple statements that the show would never outpace the books, and his blog from Jan 2016, it seems that for whatever reason he can't finish, he wants to finish but is unable to.  IMO

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49 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

it seems that for whatever reason he can't finish, he wants to finish but is unable to.  IMO

Surely, then, instead of having people lambast him for not finishing it and calling him a liar for his failed predictions about when he’d finish it, should we not all feel sorry for the guy?

Just imagine, for a second, you created something that was your opus magnum, and somewhere along the line it got turned from being your greatest work to (probably) the biggest obstacle in your career - nevermind the fact millions of people are waiting on you to finish it. That must be a lot of pressure to be under, especially if your story has got tied in knots.

Sure, people have theorised that his writing style and lack of outlines may have contributed to that, but it worked for years and only started to falter during Dance. 

Obviously fans have the right to be frustrated too - especially those who have waited since 2011 - but this isn’t some conventional crime series that he can just churn out a book whenever he wants to with; this is high concept fiction. So high concept that people still spend their time on here theorising about it.

The thing is, he has never stated he has given up completely and that it will never be out. He obviously wants to finish it every bit as much as we want him to, too.

 

Don’t want to sound like his last great defender, but I can just see it from the writer’s side. 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Surely, then, instead of having people lambast him for not finishing it and calling him a liar for his failed predictions about when he’d finish it, should we not all feel sorry for the guy?

Just imagine, for a second, you created something that was your opus magnum, and somewhere along the line it got turned from being your greatest work to (probably) the biggest obstacle in your career - nevermind the fact millions of people are waiting on you to finish it. That must be a lot of pressure to be under, especially if your story has got tied in knots.

Sure, people have theorised that his writing style and lack of outlines may have contributed to that, but it worked for years and only started to falter during Dance. 

Obviously fans have the right to be frustrated too - especially those who have waited since 2011 - but this isn’t some conventional crime series that he can just churn out a book whenever he wants to with; this is high concept fiction. So high concept that people still spend their time on here theorising about it.

The thing is, he has never stated he has given up completely and that it will never be out. He obviously wants to finish it every bit as much as we want him to, too.

 

Don’t want to sound like his last great defender, but I can just see it from the writer’s side. 

 

 

But it's not that he can't finish, it's that he's not willing to do what it takes to finish that frustrates fans. If he stopped attending conventions, stopped posting on his blog about the NFL draft, stopped publishing other books, stopped taking book tours, if he stopped all that, and still can't finish, then I would legitimately feel sorry for him.  Because he's really trying, and it's still not working.

As it is, it's hard for me to feel sorry for him when I see that he is always distracted with other things. Making it impossible to know whether his slow progress ls lack of muse or lack of discipline. (I suspect both)

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2 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

But it's not that he can't finish, it's that he's not willing to do what it takes to finish that frustrates fans. If he stopped attending conventions, stopped posting on his blog about the NFL draft, stopped publishing other books, stopped taking book tours, if he stopped all that, and still can't finish, then I would legitimately feel sorry for him.  Because he's really trying, and it's still not working.

As it is, it's hard for me to feel sorry for him when I see that he is always distracted with other things. Making it impossible to know whether his slow progress ls lack of muse or lack of discipline. (I suspect both)

I get what you are saying, to an extent, but what’s he supposed to do, though? Just put his life on hold because he can’t finish the book? That’s a bit of a selfish demand if the fans are wanting him to only focus on writing the book. Surely he did all those other things while he wrote the other books and managed to finish them with less of a problem than this one. The difficulty of writing itself is more likely to be the issue than him having other interests.

 

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I suspect this thread will soon be locked again, but if I thought I could finish something in 3 months, and then it was going to be 3.5 years at least, or longer, I would consider that a wake up call that I needed to change my way of looking at the project, even if this is the way that I succeeded in the past, "now" this way clearly doesn't work and I need something else..outline, change to schedule, something.  I wouldn't keep beating my head against the proverbial wall because this is how I always did things in the past and it worked then.  

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Just now, JordanJH1993 said:

I get what you are saying, to an extent, but what’s he supposed to do, though? Just put his life on hold because he can’t finish the book? That’s a bit of a selfish demand if the fans are wanting him to only focus on writing the book. Surely he did all those other things while he wrote the other books and managed to finish them with less of a problem than this one. The difficulty of writing itself is more likely to be the issue than him having other interests.

 

He didn't have the same level of fame, or requests for his time, or level of pressure prior to the show, so it's all different now.  And he's almost 10 years older also.

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