Edric Dayne, Why aren't we talking about him?

[Lost Melnibonean]

6 minutes ago, Masha said:

Ned decided to claim that Wylla as Jon's mother. He also allowed many (including Robert) to believe that. Its not impossible to assume that rumors would spread. However, from Cat's POV, she remembers that when she arrived at Winterfell, she found baby Jon there already installed with his wetnurse. We hear her indignation of Ned bringing the bastard to her new home, but nothing about wetnurse. 

Even if Cat didin't know about Wylla's role at first, by allowing everyone to assume that Wylla is mother of Jon, there is a strong risk that Cat will hear those rumors eventually. So, I don't see Ned even risking Cat/Wylla confrontation by bringing her to WF.

 

He let Catelyn belive Jon's mum was Ashara. 

[Michael Mertyns]

4 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

He let Catelyn belive Jon's mum was Ashara. 

She was the one to bring it up. It seems the Wylla rumor was not present at Winterfell; Jon's wet nurse was present at the castle when Cat met him. Then again, it is possible though she thought the rumor less likely than Jon's mother being Ashara. Certainly she never regains the courage to ask about it.

Quote

He did more than that. The Starks were not like other men. Ned brought his bastard home with him, and called him “son” for all the north to see. When the wars were over at last, and Catelyn rode to Winterfell, Jon and his wet nurse had already taken up residence.
That cut deep. Ned would not speak of the mother, not so much as a word, but a castle has no secrets, and Catelyn heard her maids repeating tales they heard from the lips of her husband’s soldiers. They whispered of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, deadliest of the seven knights of Aerys’s Kingsguard, and of how their young lord had slain him in single combat. And they told how afterward Ned had carried Ser Arthur’s sword back to the beautiful young sister who awaited him in a castle called Starfall on the shores of the Summer Sea. The Lady Ashara Dayne, tall and fair, with haunting violet eyes. It had taken her a fortnight to marshal her courage, but finally, in bed one night, Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face.
That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her. “Never ask me about Jon,” he said, cold as ice. “He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady.” She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne’s name was never heard in Winterfell again.
Whoever Jon’s mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away. It was the one thing she could never forgive him. She had come to love her husband with all her heart, but she had never found it in her to love Jon. She might have overlooked a dozen bastards for Ned’s sake, so long as they were out of sight. Jon was never out of sight, and as he grew, he looked more like Ned than any of the trueborn sons she bore him. Somehow that made it worse. “Jon must go,” she said now.

 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

14 hours ago, tugela said:

Ashara gave birth a few weeks before she supposedly jumped out the tower, and if she was impregnated at Harrenhall then she jumped out the tower before Lyanna was even kidnapped. We know that did not happen because Ned returned Dawn to her after ToJ. So, she did NOT get pregnant at Harrenhal. Maybe someone there dishonored her, but that was not the source of her pregnancy.

It is impossible for Daenerys to be 9 months younger than Jon, If we assume that Ned rescued Lyanna in her "bed of blood" after giving birth to Jon. The reason for this is that after Aerys was killed Ned was sent to relieve the siege at Storm's End. He then went to find the ToJ. Probably all of that would have taken at least a month after Aerys was killed. Stannis on the other hand immediately left Storms end to take Dragonstone, but by the time he got there Rhaella had given birth and the children were gone. Now, assuming you are correct and Daenerys is 9 months younger than Jon, that means she was born about 10 months after Aerys died. See the problem? Stannis would have been gathering his forces for the assault while Jon was off to ToJ. and by the time he got there Rhaella had already given birth and the children removed. That means that Jon and Daenaerys were born at around the same time, together with Asharas daughter and Robb (and Meera as well, btw) if we believe the accounts given in the book.

Regarding your idea that the Daynes were super impressed by Ned not killing their cousin, might I be so bold as to point out that Ashara was so impressed that she supposedly threw herself from a tower. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Ned don't you think? You would have to think that the rest of the Daynes would have similar feelings about Ned if that was the case. But instead they are BFF. That means that something else was going on, and the stories that have been told are not true.

Not only that we can see from all of the other Westeros family reactions when close relative is killed how they feel about it. Lady Dustin for example was so impressed by Ned's chivalry that she wants to feed him to her hounds.

Just no. You are ignoring the story and manipulating the timeline for your own ends.  There is nothing in the books which indicates Ashara and Rhaegar ever so much as looked at one anothers backsides and thought Phwoar. 

Bending the timeline into a pretzel wont alter the reality of the text. Which gives no hints to them as having at any point slept together. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

12 hours ago, The Twinslayer said:

Here is the SSM you mentioned.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1040

The point of the question was to get GRRM to agree that Ashara Dayne could not be Jon's mother because the timeline was wrong.  GRRM contradicted the questioner and indicated that the timing of a Ned/Ashara hookup does work for them to be Jon's parents.  He hints that, in Storm of Swords, he plans to reveal that Ashara was a lady in waiting to Elia in KL, that Ned and Ashara met up around 9 months before Jon was born, and that the meeting didn't happen at Starfall.  The implication is that he plans to reveal that the Ned/Ashara meeting took place 8 or 9 months before the Sack of King's Landing, which would place Jon's birth around the time of the Sack.  

We can figure out the approximate time when Ashara gave birth from three sources.  First, Cat and Cersei both say that Ashara committed suicide after Ned killed Arthur Dayne and took Dawn back to Starfall (where Ashara was "waiting," according to Cat).  Second, Barristan tells us that Ashara had a stillbirth "and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after."  That strongly indicates that Ashara's "stillbirth" (if it was a stillbirth) happened right around the time Ned arrived at Starfall.  And because a stillbirth can happen less than 9 months into a pregnancy, it tells us that Ashara became pregnant as much as 9 months or as little as 3 or 4 months before Ned arrived at Starfall.  

Then the final piece of information is that Barristan thinks he knows where and when Ashara was dishonored:  he refers to "the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal."  He does not say that the dishonoring happened during the year of the false spring during Lord Whent's tournament, he just gives a location:  "at Harrenhal."  And he says that, when Rhaegar crowned Lyanna as Queen of Love and Beauty, Ashara was still "a maiden" (he says that if he had won the final tilt, he would have crowned "a young maiden not long at court...Ashara Dayne.").  So he thinks Ashara was dishonored, that it happened at Harrenhal, but that it was some time after the final day of Lord Whent's tourney.  

So if you connect all of these dots, you get the following regarding Ashara's movements: (1) she was a lady in waiting to Elia in King's Landing before the Rebellion, (2) she went to Harrenhal for Lord Whent's tourney, and (3) she was back in Starfall at the end of the war.  And if the SSM is to be believed, she met up with Ned (at Harrenhal?) some time during the war, 9 months before Jon was born.  

The only issue with believing the SSM is that GRRM obviously changed his mind about some of it.  In 1999 he said that Ashara was a handmaid to Elia in King's Landing in the early years of Elia's marriage.  But the World Book says Elia lived on Dragonstone.  And in 1999, GRRM said he was going to reveal this information in Storm of Swords.  But he changed his mind and instead we got the story Edric Dayne told to Arya.  So maybe the whole SSM (including the Ned/Ashara meeting 9 months before Jon's birth, and the part putting Jon's birth 8-9 months before Dany's, should all be discarded and we should conclude that none of it is true any more).   

 

Amazingly enough I'd much prefer to take an SSM and believe it than the circular thinking of some random reader. 

The SSM says Nothing about meeting up with Ned at all. It simply says she was not nailed down. And that is not any sort of confirmation of a meeting. The logistics of which would be nigh on impossible. Not to mention that we know Jon & Robb are so close in age that Cat doesn't fully believe Robb is the older. Meaning that Ned must have been shagging Ashara in the vicinity of Riverrun whilst he was preparing for or directly after his nuptials. This doesn't sound anything like the Ned we've met. Add in that if Barristan knows it was Ned who knocked up Ashara he sure does a great job of not thinking badly of the man. I mean he shows Ned the utmost respect and professionalism in all this interactions on page and thoughts in his own head. Not once in fact does he feel anger or resentment towards the man! wow. What a guy. 

It simply doesn't work. 

[The Twinslayer]

6 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Amazingly enough I'd much prefer to take an SSM and believe it than the circular thinking of some random reader. 

The SSM says Nothing about meeting up with Ned at all. It simply says she was not nailed down. And that is not any sort of confirmation of a meeting. The logistics of which would be nigh on impossible. Not to mention that we know Jon & Robb are so close in age that Cat doesn't fully believe Robb is the older. Meaning that Ned must have been shagging Ashara in the vicinity of Riverrun whilst he was preparing for or directly after his nuptials. This doesn't sound anything like the Ned we've met. Add in that if Barristan knows it was Ned who knocked up Ashara he sure does a great job of not thinking badly of the man. I mean he shows Ned the utmost respect and professionalism in all this interactions on page and thoughts in his own head. Not once in fact does he feel anger or resentment towards the man! wow. What a guy. 

It simply doesn't work. 

A few thoughts:

1.  If you believe the SSM, which says that Storm of Swords is going to reveal that Ashara Dayne was a lady in waiting to Elia in King's Landing during the early years of Elia's marriage, can you find the passage in Storm of Swords that says this?  Hint:  it isn't there.  In other words, GRRM either changed his mind between the time (in 1999) when he made that statement and the time in 2000 when he published the book, or he was mistaken.  Either way, that SSM is not reliable.

2.  The implication of the SSM, where he says that Ashara was not nailed down at Starfall, and he refutes the idea that the timeline precludes Ashara from being Jon's mother, is that Ashara met up with Ned about 9 months before Jon's birth.  The logistics of that are not "impossible" -- they are very easy.  All it requires is that Ashara and Ned were in the same place for a night during the rebellion.  We know that is possible because Ned traveled widely -- he was in the Vale, WInterfell, Riverrun & Stony Sept and elsewhere in the Riverlands, King's Landing, Storm's End, and Dorne.  Ashara could very easily have met him in any of those places.  Just look at Cat's movements in Game of Thrones (Winterfell, King's Landing, the Vale, the Twins, Riverrun) or in Clash of Kings (Riverrun, Bitterbridge, Storm's End, the Twins).  Why can't Ashara travel just as easily as Cat?  My money is on a meeting at Harrenhal.  Ashara might have stayed with the Whents (her brother and Oswell were in the KG together) and Ned might have taken Harrenhal some time during the war while Ashara was there.  

3.  Why is it hard to believe that Ned was shagging Ashara at Harrenhal shortly before or shortly after his wedding to Catelyn?  Ned didn't know he was going to marry Catelyn until after the Battle of the Bells.  After that battle, the following happened very quickly:  Rhaegar returned from the South to lead the Targaryen army to the Trident, Barristan gathered the remnants of Connington's army from the vicinity of Stony Sept, Lewyn met the Dornish troops marching up the Boneway, and Ned/Jon married Cat/Lysa in Riverrun.  It is not hard to believe that Ned had a meeting with Ashara at Harrenhal a few days before the Battle of the Bells (not knowing that he was about to be forced to marry Cat) and then married Cat a few days after that battle.  Or it could have been the other way around:  Ned married Cat and then a week or two later met up with Ashara at Harrenhal.

4.  The closest we get to Barristan thinking about Ned is that if Barristan won the tournament and crowned Ashara Queen of Love and Beauty, "might she have looked to me instead of Stark?"  This suggests that "Stark" is the person who "dishonored" her.  Usually (but not always), a noble referred to by his last name is the lord.  For example, Rhaegar is "Rhaegar" but Aerys is "Targaryen."  So when Barristan thinks of "Stark," he is probably thinking of Rickard or Ned (since Brandon and Benjen were never Lord Stark).  There is no reason to think that Rickard ever met Ashara, but we know Ned danced with her and many characters (Cersei, Cat, Harwin, Ned Dayne) think there was a romance there.  

There is no hint that Barristan thinks well or poorly of Ned.  You never get that from his thoughts.  And you can't infer anything from their interaction -- we know Barristan had no respect for Robert (because he thinks about it) but you would never be able to tell that from the way he behaved around Robert.  Even if he hated Ned, Ned was the Warden of the North, Hand of the King and father to the future queen.  Why would the LC of the Kingsguard treat him with disrespect?  Finally, why would Barristan think badly of Ned for sleeping with Ashara?  Rhaegar kidnapped Ned's sister, slept with her, and led to her death, yet Ned doesn't spend a lot of time thinking nasty thoughts about Rhaegar.  Why would Barristan be any different?       

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

On 13/07/2016 at 10:12 PM, tugela said:

As you may (or not) know, there is another theory that Daenerys is the child of Rhaegar and Ashara.

Christ. Dorne at the end of Robert's Rebellion must have looked like that baby-swapping scene from Once Upon A Time in America if you believe some people on this forum. 

[OuttaOldtown]

56 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Christ. Dorne at the end of Robert's Rebellion must have looked like that baby-swapping scene from Once Upon A Time in America if you believe some people on this forum. 

Amen to that! If half of what people think were to actually happen the story would be so convoluted at the end with trying to explain how half the characters aren't who they believed themselves to be. Jon is the only one with a mystery mother, and since Ned's inner monologue doesn't outright prove he's the father Jon is the only one who we're unsure about.. 

As to the OP, what does Edric know? He's another unreliable rumor monger who didn't bear witness to anything, his sources have no first hand knowledge of anything so far as we know..

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

I see one scenario in which Ned Ashara's could work :

The whole Stark family on their way to Riverrun, for Brandon's wedding.

On their way they stay in Harrenhal and Ashara and Rhaegar happen to be there too. Ned and Ashara's do the dirty (perhaps Rickard even gave permission for them to marry,  but they're not officially betrothed).

The next morning, Lyanna is gone,  and Rhaegar as well.

So Brandon runs to KL (Brandon might have been in Riverrun at this point,  and does this when the news reaches him),  Ned runs to the Vale to tell Robert, and Rickard runs home to call the banners. 

Benjen just panicks, and takes the black. I think he helped Lyanna run off with Rhaegar.

So after this Ned marries Cat, and when he reaches Dorne, Ashara already has a baby Jon who happens to be a few months older than Robb, and Lyanna gives birth to baby Dany a few months later and dies.

Since he can't come home with a Targ looking baby, he leaves Dany with Ashara, and takes Jon home. 

Only something goes wrong in Dorne, and Dany ends up with Viserys, and Ashara supposedly dies.

I think R+L=J is more likely though. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

4 minutes ago, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

So after this Ned marries Cat, and when he reaches Dorne, Ashara already has a baby Jon who happens to be a few months older than Robb, and Lyanna gives birth to baby Dany a few months later and dies.

A mother would had known the difference between a newborn and a 6 months old. Cat wouldn't had been hurt if Jon was older than Robb.

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Christ. Dorne at the end of Robert's Rebellion must have looked like that baby-swapping scene from Once Upon A Time in America if you believe some people on this forum. 

I think some folks spend too much asking what might be possible, and too little time asking what story is the author trying to tell. 

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

43 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

A mother would had known the difference between a newborn and a 6 months old. Cat wouldn't had been hurt if Jon was older than Robb.

Jon is slender, while Robb is muscular and relatively broad. Cat also mentions how Rickon with 4 looks bigger and healthier than Robert Arryn. My guess is that Cat births big babies. You can see the difference between a 0 and 6 month old baby yes, but Ned had to wait a long time before he went to WF, because you can't just take a newborn baby on a ship, and Lyanna's baby had to be born as well. My guess is that when he got to WF Robb was at least 8 months old, and Jon around a year. Bastards grow up faster... The war didn't end until after Dany was born, and Dragonstone surrendered. That would be around 8-9 months after Jon's birth. 

Anyway I don't really believe this. I'm just explaining the only scenario in which I think it might work. 

[OuttaOldtown]

41 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I think some folks spend too much asking what might be possible, and too little time asking what story is the author trying to tell. 

You'd think the book series would be titled A Song of Dayne and Dawn..

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Just now, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

Jon is slender, while Robb is muscular and relatively broad. Cat also mentions how Rickon with 4 looks bigger and healthier than Robert Arryn. My guess is that Cat births big babies. You can see the difference between a 0 and 6 month old baby yes, but Ned had to wait a long time before he went to WF, because you can't just take a newborn baby on a ship, and Lyanna's baby had to be born as well. My guess is that when he got to WF Robb was at least 8 months old, and Jon around a year. Bastards grow up faster... The war didn't end until after Dany was born, and Dragonstone surrendered. That would be around 8-9 months after Jon's birth. 

Anyway I don't really believe this. I'm just explaining the only scenario in which I think it might work. 

We are not talking about how big a baby is but how mature the baby is. A newborn no matter how big he is, a newborn and a 6 months old have way different psychosocial and neurological development.

[The Twinslayer]

2 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Christ. Dorne at the end of Robert's Rebellion must have looked like that baby-swapping scene from Once Upon A Time in America if you believe some people on this forum. 

I agree -- this should not be over-complicated.  There are four pregnancies and four mystery children that need to be accounted for.  

The pregnant women are Lyanna, Ashara, Wylla, and the fisherman's daughter.

Lyanna was pregnant (in all likelihood) by Rhaegar.

Ashara certainly was pregnant (Cersei and Barristan both knew this).  The father is a mystery.

Wylla had a baby (she must have had a baby in order to be a wetnurse).  The father is a mystery.     

The fisherman's daughter may or may not have ever been pregnant, either by Ned or someone else.

The four children are Jon, Young Griff/Aegon, Wylla's child, and a stillborn daughter.  

Let's match up the babies with their parents.

Lyanna's baby by Rhaegar could be Jon or it could be Young Griff.  If it is Jon, then R+L=J is true, Ned took Jon to Winterfell and pretended to be the father, and Ashara just killed herself.  If Lyanna's baby is Young Griff, then in all likelihood Ashara took him into hiding and disguised herself as Septa Lemore, and R+L=J is not true.

Ashara's baby could be Jon or a stillborn daughter.  Either way, Ned Stark is almost certainly the father (Cat, Cersei, Harwin, Arya, etc. have all heard about the Ashara/Ned affair, and Barristan also implies that it is true).  If the baby is Jon, that explains why Ned took him to Winterfell.  Then Ashara either killed herself or she is Septa Lemore. If Ashara's baby is the stillborn daughter, that could explain why she killed herself. 

Wylla's child is either the stillborn daughter or Jon.  If Wylla's child is the stillborn daughter, the stillbirth happened at just the right time for Wylla to be Jon's wetnurse.  And if Ashara was disappearing to look after Young Griff, it would be easy to account for her pregnancy by saying that Wylla's stillborn daughter was actually Ashara's stillborn daughter.  If Wylla's child is Jon, then that explains Ned's actions.  She was at Winterfell with Jon when Cat arrived.  When Wylla saw how angry Cat was, she lied and said she was just the wetnurse.  Ned kept silent about Jon's mother at first to protect Wylla and later so that Cat would not find out that he had parked his mistress right there in Winterfell before Cat even arrived.  

The fisherman's daughter was either never pregnant, she had a child who is irrelevant and just claimed that Ned was the father, or the child is Jon.   

47 minutes ago, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

I see one scenario in which Ned Ashara's could work :

The whole Stark family on their way to Riverrun, for Brandon's wedding.

On their way they stay in Harrenhal and Ashara and Rhaegar happen to be there too. Ned and Ashara's do the dirty (perhaps Rickard even gave permission for them to marry,  but they're not officially betrothed).

The next morning, Lyanna is gone,  and Rhaegar as well.

So Brandon runs to KL (Brandon might have been in Riverrun at this point,  and does this when the news reaches him),  Ned runs to the Vale to tell Robert, and Rickard runs home to call the banners. 

Benjen just panicks, and takes the black. I think he helped Lyanna run off with Rhaegar.

So after this Ned marries Cat, and when he reaches Dorne, Ashara already has a baby Jon who happens to be a few months older than Robb, and Lyanna gives birth to baby Dany a few months later and dies.

Since he can't come home with a Targ looking baby, he leaves Dany with Ashara, and takes Jon home. 

Only something goes wrong in Dorne, and Dany ends up with Viserys, and Ashara supposedly dies.

I think R+L=J is more likely though. 

I don't see any indication that Dany is anyone other than who she thinks she is.  If Rhaegar/Lyanna had a child who is not Jon, the most likely candidate is Young Griff/Aegon. 

42 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

A mother would had known the difference between a newborn and a 6 months old. Cat wouldn't had been hurt if Jon was older than Robb.

A mother might not know the difference between a 6 months old and a 10 months old.  Some children crawl at 5 months and some still can't crawl at 10 months.     

[Ygrain]

On 14. 7. 2016 at 7:42 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

I love Eddard, but let's not forget his maneuvering against Cersei. He might not have been as shrewd in his analysis of what might happen after leaving Starfall with Jon and Wylla. 

These are two completely different scenarios, though, requiring completely different sets of skills. Ned's main issue in KL is that he cannot grasp the degree of powerhunger and treachery there. Whereas, planning for Jon's identity to remain secret is more like using battle tactics and strategy to outsmart the enemy, and we know that Ned was a capable commander.

21 hours ago, Masha said:

Ned decided to claim that Wylla as Jon's mother. He also allowed many (including Robert) to believe that. Its not impossible to assume that rumors would spread. However, from Cat's POV, she remembers that when she arrived at Winterfell, she found baby Jon there already installed with his wetnurse. We hear her indignation of Ned bringing the bastard to her new home, but nothing about wetnurse. 

Even if Cat didin't know about Wylla's role at first, by allowing everyone to assume that Wylla is mother of Jon, there is a strong risk that Cat will hear those rumors eventually. So, I don't see Ned even risking Cat/Wylla confrontation by bringing her to WF.

My point exactly.

21 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

He let Catelyn belive Jon's mum was Ashara. 

He doesn't. He leaves her at doubt, she doesn't know.

21 hours ago, Michael Mertyns said:

She was the one to bring it up. It seems the Wylla rumor was not present at Winterfell; Jon's wet nurse was present at the castle when Cat met him. Then again, it is possible though she thought the rumor less likely than Jon's mother being Ashara. Certainly she never regains the courage to ask about it.

There is, though, another rumour present at Winterfell, that Jon's mother was commonborn but her name is never mentioned. It is mentioned in passing in one of Sansa's early chapters in AGOT. Most people overlook it, I guess.

7 minutes ago, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

Jon is slender, while Robb is muscular and relatively broad. Cat also mentions how Rickon with 4 looks bigger and healthier than Robert Arryn. My guess is that Cat births big babies. You can see the difference between a 0 and 6 month old baby yes, but Ned had to wait a long time before he went to WF, because you can't just take a newborn baby on a ship, and Lyanna's baby had to be born as well.

Huh? Of course you can take a newborn on a ship, it is merely a matter of care and comfort that you are able to arrange

7 minutes ago, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

My guess is that when he got to WF Robb was at least 8 months old, and Jon around a year. Bastards grow up faster... The war didn't end until after Dany was born, and Dragonstone surrendered. That would be around 8-9 months after Jon's birth. 

The war ended very much with the Sack and the surrender of Storms' End. Ned had nothing to do with the naval blockade of DS.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

5 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

We are not talking about how big a baby is but how mature the baby is. A newborn no matter how big he is, a newborn and a 6 months old have way different psychosocial and neurological development.

Well... Jon keeps prattling on about how bastards mature faster,  because maester Luwin says so.... I'm sure Luwin told Cat the same thing but again,  I believe R+L=J, and nothing more atm, so you don't have to convince me that this is not the most likely scenario 

[Buried Treasure]

18 minutes ago, The Twinslayer said:

I agree -- this should not be over-complicated.  There are four pregnancies and four mystery children that need to be accounted for.  

The pregnant women are Lyanna, Ashara, Wylla, and the fisherman's daughter.

Lyanna was pregnant (in all likelihood) by Rhaegar.

Ashara certainly was pregnant (Cersei and Barristan both knew this).  The father is a mystery.

[snip]

Cersei only thinks Ashara was pregnant because she thinks Ned is Jon's father and speculates that Ashara is the mother. She doesn't actually know anything about Ashara being pregnant or not.

We don't really know what Barristan knows. Did he see Ashara with child? overhear a private conversation between Ashara and Elia? believe a lie about Ashara having a stillborn? There is also considerable debate about whether Ashara would have been pregnant during Robert's Rebellion or a year earlier, after Harrenhal. If the latter, then Ashara's child would not be the right age to be swapped with either Dany or Jon but with Aegon (original flavour, not YG). In that theory Ashara had a bastard boy and Elia a stillborn at a time she was starting to lose the attention of her husband. The verdict is out on whether that babe died by Gregor or Varys arranged the raising of  a fake that he thinks is the real Aegon Targaryen, either way it provides a motive for Ashara to have truly killed herself when she heard that her son had died in Kings Landing.

 

 

 

 

[tugela]

4 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Christ. Dorne at the end of Robert's Rebellion must have looked like that baby-swapping scene from Once Upon A Time in America if you believe some people on this forum. 

No baby swapping going on. Just two woman who have babies with extremely sensitive origins. The children would have been placed where they were to protect them as best possible under the circumstances.

[tugela]

On ‎7‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 10:47 AM, rhoynestar said:

Er no, the BWB were very clearly outlaws by the time Arya meets Edric and the band. The current king had outlawed their activities; they were simply staying true to the spirit of the previous king and rejecting the current one. They say they are outlaws themselves, and talk about the possibility of Lord Tully among others hanging them. Beric is clearly a wanted man by the crown and by default, his entire group. The Daynes were taking quite a risk letting their heir hang around as a squire.

Edric was the Lord of Starfall at that point, not the heir. He made the decisions for the family.

[The Twinslayer]

46 minutes ago, Buried Treasure said:

Cersei only thinks Ashara was pregnant because she thinks Ned is Jon's father and speculates that Ashara is the mother. She doesn't actually know anything about Ashara being pregnant or not.

We don't really know what Barristan knows. Did he see Ashara with child? overhear a private conversation between Ashara and Elia? believe a lie about Ashara having a stillborn? There is also considerable debate about whether Ashara would have been pregnant during Robert's Rebellion or a year earlier, after Harrenhal. If the latter, then Ashara's child would not be the right age to be swapped with either Dany or Jon but with Aegon (original flavour, not YG). In that theory Ashara had a bastard boy and Elia a stillborn at a time she was starting to lose the attention of her husband. The verdict is out on whether that babe died by Gregor or Varys arranged the raising of  a fake that he thinks is the real Aegon Targaryen, either way it provides a motive for Ashara to have truly killed herself when she heard that her son had died in Kings Landing.

 

I suppose that is another possibility, but I think it is unlikely, especially since Ashara was apparently still a maiden at the end of the Harrenhal tourney and she allegedly committed suicide "soon after" giving birth (both according to Barristan).  Those two facts suggest that she got pregnant some time after the tournament and gave birth around the time Ned arrived at Starfall.