Edric Dayne, Why aren't we talking about him?

[House Beaudreau]

8 hours ago, White Ravens said:

This thread about Edric Dayne sure contains a lot of talk about Jon Snow.  I want to know what happens next with Edric.  He was squired to Beric Dondarrion and followed him all through the Riverlands and through several deaths and rebirths.  But when Beric kissed the corpse of Catelyn Stark his inner fire finally left him and went into her, leaving him truly and finally dead.  I think Thoros tells Arya that many members of the Brotherhood Without Banners left when Lady Stoneheart took over leadership of this group.  Can we assume that Edric is no longer part of their organization?  Is he on his way back to Starfall?

That would be my guess. If I was young Edric Dayne and probably the only other Lord in the Brotherhood besides Beric. I would surely promise favor for any of the other members to escort me safely back to Dorne so I could take my seat as a Lord. Will he make it there, Probably Not. I think we will see him turn up in the Stormlands on his way to Dorne and declare Starfall for Young Griff/Aegon. 

[Ygrain]

7 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

could Rhaella died without giving birth at all and then the castle fell? The only thing we have to go on Dany's birth is Visery's information which we know is not always correct because Dany wasn't in Bravos when she thought she was. 

And how would Viserys come to the conclusion that Dany was his sister, if he never saw his mother pregnant? Or why would he claim Dany his sister if she wasn't?

8 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

You forgot Lemore's stretch marks

Not every woman with stretchmarks is Ashara in hiding :-)

1 hour ago, House Beaudreau said:

Yes there is no trees in Bravos except in the gardens of the wealthy but lemon trees are a climate oriented tree and would not grow in that climate. We know that there is no lemon tree anywhere in Westeros besides Dorne. Bravos is on the same Latitude as the Vale which is north of the trident which has no lemon trees meaning no lemon trees in Bravos even in the wealthy gardens. 

Where I live, almonds and figs don't grow. Yet, I saw them in the garden of the formerly mighty (at a chateau) just last summer, growing just fine with a little extra care and arrangement of winter conditions. Just saying.

1 hour ago, House Beaudreau said:

Unless im missing something and it literally says there is actual lemon trees somewhere in Bravos which i am almost certain there is not. 

Nor does it say literally that there is not a single lemon tree in Braavos.

1 hour ago, House Beaudreau said:

please cite the text where it says there is actual lemon trees in Bravos besides the memories of an eight year old.

Where does it say that Dany was eight at the time? She was born in 284, Darry's death is approximated as 289 or 290. That makes her six at best.

1 hour ago, House Beaudreau said:

You can use deductive reason to figure out there is no Lemon trees in Bravos. 

It would be like if a character had childhood memories of looking at weirwood trees while they were in the Eyrie... but we know there is no weirwoods in the Eyrie because they couldn't take root in the stoney soil, meaning that that person was not actually in the Eyrie but somewhere else entirely. 

Or that the person is conflating or confusing memories from an early age.

[House Beaudreau]

1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

And how would Viserys come to the conclusion that Dany was his sister, if he never saw his mother pregnant? Or why would he claim Dany his sister if she wasn't?

Very True, Viserys was likely there when Dany was born on Dragonstone meaning Rhaella gave birth too her. I believe this. but it doesn't solve the Lemon tree problem. 

1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

Not every woman with stretchmarks is Ashara in hiding :-)

exactly, could she be the mother of a sand snake tho?

1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

Where does it say that Dany was eight at the time? She was born in 284, Darry's death is approximated as 289 or 290. That makes her six at best.

However old she is, her memories are not reliable is what I've been trying to get at. 

1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

Or that the person is conflating or confusing memories from an early age.

This is exactly the point I'm trying to make, because I think Dany was probably lied too by Willem Darry and Viserys about there whereabouts when she was a child. I think it makes sense for them to be in Dorne with the Lemon trees so that Oberyn Martell could meet with Ser Willem Darry and sign the Secret marriage pact and then they flee across the Narrow sea. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

16 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

A mother would had known the difference between a newborn and a 6 months old. Cat wouldn't had been hurt if Jon was older than Robb.

Hell, a blind one armed hermit could tell the difference between a 6 month old and a newborn!! 

[rhoynestar]

13 hours ago, tugela said:

Edric was the Lord of Starfall at that point, not the heir. He made the decisions for the family.

Edric was 12. Underage by any standard, including ASOIAF where coming of age is 16. He likely had older family relatives or caretakers who would be making and influencing important decisions on his education and training. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

4 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Not every woman with stretchmarks is Ashara in hiding :-)

WHAT?  How you dare speak blasphemy like that? SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

2 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

Very True, Viserys was likely there when Dany was born on Dragonstone meaning Rhaella gave birth too her. I believe this. but it doesn't solve the Lemon tree problem. 

There is no Lemon tree problem. Only people who see conspiracy in everything.

20 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Hell, a blind one armed hermit could tell the difference between a 6 month old and a newborn!! 

Not in Westeros. In Westeros the bastards have a unique magic power of growing faster than the trueborns. 

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

4 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Where I live, almonds and figs don't grow. Yet, I saw them in the garden of the formerly mighty (at a chateau) just last summer, growing just fine with a little extra care and arrangement of winter conditions. Just saying.

Nor does it say literally that there is not a single lemon tree in Braavos.

One of the options that Braavos truly was Braavos was if the lemon trees in an orangerie,  which are mentioned in the text. Louis XIV had 3000 orange trees in Versailles, for which he had a orangerie designed. If Louis can have that many orange trees in Paris, Braavos could have one lemon tree no?

If Dany is indeed mixing up memories,  it still doesn't mean she was in Dorne. It's an option,  but so are Tyrosh, Myr and Lys, because they should have a similar climate to Dorne. There are lots of possibilities, and we truly don't know a thing,  so we can speculate that she could've been in Dorne, or wasn't in Braavos, but presenting it as fact is just wrong.

[Lost Melnibonean]

When the George wrote the lemon tree into Daenerys's early childhood memory, he had her in Tyrosh. Why he changed her backstory to Braavos has not been revealed. But the lemon tree remained, I think, as a literary hint that her arc would end in bitterness an disappointment. 

As to Lemore's stretch marks, I was suggesting there is a fifth mystery birth, not that Lemore is Ashara. I think Lemore is the Mad Maid. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

2 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

As to Lemore's stretch marks, I was suggesting there is a fifth mystery birth, not that Lemore is Ashara. I think Lemore is the Mad Maid. 

Malora Hightower?

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Malora Hightower?

That's my guess.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

6 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

That's my guess.

Cool. I remember reading something like that but I cannot recall the details. If I had to chose I would say that Lemore is Mellario Nymeros Martell of Norvos.

[Chib]

I really want to know more about the Daynes, they're so interesting. Maybe we will see this kid again. 

[OuttaOldtown]

1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Cool. I remember reading something like that but I cannot recall the details. If I had to chose I would say that Lemore is Mellario Nymeros Martell of Norvos.

What would she know about the faith? According to TWoIaF the people of Norvos worship a god whose name is only revealed to its initiates. The Hightowers on the other hand have heavy ties to the faith..

[Jon's Queen Consort]

2 minutes ago, OuttaOldtown said:

What would she know about the faith? According to TWoIaF the people of Norvos worship a god whose name is only revealed to its initiates. The Hightowers on the other hand have heavy ties to the faith..

Last time I checked she was living in Westeros for at least 12 years.

[OuttaOldtown]

1 minute ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Last time I checked she was living in Westeros for at least 12 years.

That doesn't make her an expert on a religion which would be a foreign one if she were raised in Norvos. I've considered her but imo Malora makes the most sense to me. If there were something in the text about her become a devout follower of the faith I'd definitely consider it a greater possibility..

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

When the George wrote the lemon tree into Daenerys's early childhood memory, he had her in Tyrosh. Why he changed her backstory to Braavos has not been revealed. But the lemon tree remained, I think, as a literary hint that her arc would end in bitterness an disappointment. 

As to Lemore's stretch marks, I was suggesting there is a fifth mystery birth, not that Lemore is Ashara. I think Lemore is the Mad Maid. 

Yeah I know.  Whether he moved her to Braavos, to cover up that she was actually in Tyrosh,  or to make the lemon tree seem more suspicious,  or just so the sealord of Braavos could sign a wedding contract is impossible to know right now. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Just now, OuttaOldtown said:

That doesn't make her an expert on a religion which would be a foreign one if she were raised in Norvos. I've considered her but imo Malora makes the most sense to me. If there were something in the text about her become a devout follower of the faith I'd definitely consider it a greater possibility..

I don't agree. Val, Dalla, Alys, Asha and so on are also Westerosi and they don't know about the Faith. 12 years is a long time for someone to learn something. For me it makes more sense that people who have some connection with the people involved are those who takes part in a conspiracy. As far as we know, Malora would had no connection with Aegon.

[OuttaOldtown]

3 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I don't agree. Val, Dalla, Alys, Asha and so on are also Westerosi and they don't know about the Faith. 12 years is a long time for someone to learn something. For me it makes more sense that people who have some connection with the people involved are those who takes part in a conspiracy. As far as we know, Malora would had no connection with Aegon.

Knowing about and teaching something are entirely different, based on what we're learned about Lemore she has enough knowledge to instruct Aegon. My thought on the connection is that the Hightowers were at the center of the 'green' faction, GRRM has set them up as a house who have caused division between Targaryens. I do not believe that Leyton and Malora have been atop the Hightower for more than a decade, sounds like a alibi to me..

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

17 hours ago, tugela said:

They story mentions many times that Rhaegar made all the maidens weep when he played his sad songs on his harp. They all swooned over him, even strong willed girls like Cersei and Lyanna. Ashara would have been no exception, and in a loveless arranged marriage like that with Elia, it is not unreasonable to presume that Rhaegar would have been playing the field on the side when most of the highborn maidens in Westeros were virtually throwing themselves at him. A beautiful girl in close proximity and readily available would have been one of his first choices.

I am actually genuinely pretty disgusted by this post. It plays into just about every gross myth about male sexuality there is. That; what, he just wouldn't be capable of restraining himself if there was an attractive woman about?  That Ashara MUST have been goo goo gaga over him, just because Cersei & Lyanna both fancied him and found his songs moving. What is that like? one of those cheesy Lynx adverts which shows all the girls running hysterically after the lad after he sprays himself? Why is it not unreasonable to assume he played the field? we have zero in text hints that he was a cad. As far as we are given any clues in text his desire for Lyanna is the only time he looked at another woman. As much as his and Elia's marriage was one of fondness and duty not passion. We have never been given any impression at all that he put it about and was copying his Da and knocking off his wife's handmaidens. Your implying that if a woman "throws herself" at a man he has no capacity to resist. That is just disgusting, and you do men in general a great disservice to imply that they have no control over their dicks. Cliche'd and sexist. I'm literally shaking my head at the idea that someone has really said of course he was knocking her off she was good looking and he had the opportunity. As though men have zero capacity to say no and women are unable to control themselves around good looking men. 

Maybe next time I walk past an attractive guy in the street my knickers will just fall off in response hey?  And I'd best watch myself around my friends husbands as they probably won't be able to help jumping my bones, I am an attractive woman after all. And a lot of them are musicians and after all we all know that if a woman likes your music her pants will automatically drop off.  Best wear my chastity belt tonight!!!!

[Jon's Queen Consort]

36 minutes ago, OuttaOldtown said:

Knowing about and teaching something are entirely different, based on what we're learned about Lemore she has enough knowledge to instruct Aegon. My thought on the connection is that the Hightowers were at the center of the 'green' faction, GRRM has set them up as a house who have caused division between Targaryens. I do not believe that Leyton and Malora have been atop the Hightower for more than a decade, sounds like a alibi to me..

I still not see the problem. We are talking about maybe one of the biggest conspiracies in ASOIAF sure people who are included are dedicated enough, after all if someone can learn and be able to teach a foreign language after 12 years I see no problem with learning about a book. I cannot see how the Greens who were their family and the Blackfyres who are not their family, are the same. 

However I do find weird that Leyton and Malora have spent a decade in Hightower.