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Is it possible that Daven Lannister married Amerei Frey


norwaywolf123

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Amerei is married to Lancel Lannister, the new Lord of Darry, in order to ease the change of allegiance of the Freys after the Red Wedding. This allows Lancel to strengthen his claim on the Darry lands, though Lancel, having discovered a devout piety to the Faith, shows an interest in neither his wife nor his lands. Amerei is strongly suspected to have continued her promiscuous ways even after her marriage, much to her new husband's ambivalence. When Jaime Lannister's knights visit Castle Darry, she sobs that outlawsmurdered her father, Merrett Frey. Ser Harwyn Plumm, the commander of Castle Darry's new garrison, has promised to bring Amerei the head of the leader of the outlaws, Beric Dondarrion. She also charms Ser Lyle Crakehall into agreeing to hunt the outlaws near her lands after the resolution of Riverrun.[4]

Lancel tells Jaime that he intends to renounce his lordship over Darry and his unconsummated marriage with Amerei.[4]

As part of the pact between Lord Tywin Lannister and Lord Walder Frey concerning the betrayal of Robb Stark, Daven has to wed a Frey to consolidate the alliance between the two houses.[7] This constitutes a problem, as Stafford, at the time of his death, had been negotiating to betroth his son to Desmera Redwyne, although an agreement had not been reached. Daven does not like the Freys, but he says later that he will "wed and bed his stoat", as he knows what happened to Robb Stark.[3]

 

Idea

As a means too sealing a pact between Lord Walder of House Frey and Lord Tywin of House Lannister, Daven is to marry one of Walder's daughters or grandaughters? There is yet to be any mention of which frey, Daven will choose to marry.

After the sack of Darry by Lannister forces, and the murder of the last Darry male. The lands and titles of the house were given to Lancel Lannister as a reward for Lancel's father Kevan. Lancel who was becoming increasingly more religous refused to do his marriage duties and bed his wife. He later left Darry and renaunced his land, titles and name and became a member of the warrior sons something akin to christan crusaders or islamic jihadis.

In my view it makes little sense to create a new house "House Lannister of Darry" and just burying it straight away unless something is gone a happen to the darry inheritance. If Daven becomes the new lord Lannister of Darry it would continu the house. It would also make sure that houses Lannister and Frey maintain their relationship. Your Thoughts

 

 

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It's possible it may happen but Daven is Warden of the West so him taking up the lordship of Darry seems a bit beneath him at this point. The whole appeal to Amerei Frey is that she has Darry blood so bearing a son to a Lannister father would in effect be continuing the line. There are plenty of other Lannisters... or even Lannister bannermen, to marry Gatehouse Ami to.

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1 hour ago, norwaywolf123 said:

In my view it makes little sense to create a new house "House Lannister of Darry" and just burying it straight away unless something is gone a happen to the darry inheritance. If Daven becomes the new lord Lannister of Darry it would continu the house. It would also make sure that houses Lannister and Frey maintain their relationship. Your Thoughts

There's not really a new house. Lancel was born a Lannister of Nowhere, his father being landless. Upon taking over Darry he became Lancel Lannister of Darry, the same way a bastard living in Darry might be called "Tom Rivers of Darry." In the Iron Isles we see how flexible this is with the Harlaws, where Rodrik the Reader, as the overlord of Harlaw, decided to move from Harlaw to Ten Towers, making a cadet branch into House Harlaw of Harlaw Hall, while Rodrick is now a Harlaw of Harlaw or of Ten Towers. Sometimes these sorts of branches can grow into truly distinct organizations - e.g. the Karstarks of That Place Karl Stark Held, but, for the brief time House Lannister of Darry existed, it was just the Lannister Household in Darry.

 

Martyn "The Hostage" Lannister is the current lawful heir to Darry. He might want to marry Amrei, for the same reasons as Lancel, but then again, she's older than him, famously promiscuous, and said to have no useful skills.

From a narrative standpoint, I think making Lancel lord of Darry was mostly just important so that Lancel had something to give up. If he went from being a homeless anointed warrior of the faith, to being a homeless anointed warrior of the faith who has confessed his sins, that's not very meaningful. The Lordship of Darry was everything he had worked for turning sour in his mouth. It's a statement about how petty Lancel's BS ambitions and pride really were. He got everything he ever wanted, achieved a flawless victory, and it wasn't worth it.

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NO!!! NO NO NO. NO. First she helps turn Lancel in to a monk, then she comes onto Strongboar, and now she wants Daven? NO I'm putting my foot down. Not Daven dang it. Daven will marry Edwyn's daughter, who is heir to the Twins.

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  • 1 year later...

While it's a possibility that they wed, I wonder if Daven himself might have bigger ambitions. As Warden of The West, he could surely arrange some betrothal to a more politically astute match?

At this point, I'm not sure if there's anyone other than Cersei or Jaime that this bearden lion would really take from in regards to a marriage pact, what with his status as Warden making him pretty high on the totem pole of powerful Lannisters.

1 hour ago, Euron Lannister said:

I don't think Daven will marry her, he conjectures that Ami slept with Black Walder, and Genna Lannister/Frey already suggest to marry Martyn to Amerei.

This is a great point - with the Lannisters having gone through a lot of recent death and humiliation, I'm not sure if Genna or Daven, two of the more "chilled out" lions, would want to risk further family fracture by squabbling over a betrothal to some Darry. Better to let Martyn have her and find another bride for Daven.

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Wasn't Lancel named Lord of Darry? And wasn't his marriage to Gatehouse Ami arranged because of her drop of Darry blood, and the support of House Frey that she would be expected to bring? Effectively, as of now, isn't House Frey in control of Darry? 

We learn about the Plumms proper (as opposed to the dragonseed spit across the Narrow Sea) when Jaime is reunited with his father in King’s Landing...

"The eunuch told me a few days after your escape. I sent men into the riverlands to look for you. Gregor Clegane, Samwell Spicer, the brothers Plumm. Varys put out the word as well, but quietly. We agreed that the fewer people who knew you were free, the fewer would be hunting you."

Jaime VII, Storm 62

In the Appendix to Storm we learn that Philip is Lord Plumm, and that he has three sons, Dennis, Peter, and Harwyn, called Hardstone.

In Cersei III, Feast 12, Kevan tells Cersei, “Hardstone has cleared the broken men from Darry castle," and, "Lancel's bride awaits us there."

Later in Feast, we get just a hint at the backstory of House Plumm and that six-foot member, and Jaime mentions Lord Philip...

"There can be no danger of a consummation. Tommen is much too young."

"And Ossifer Plumm was much too dead, but that did not stop him fathering a child, did it?"

Her brother looked lost. "Who was Ossifer Plumm? Was he Lord Philip's father, or . . . who?"

He is near as ignorant as Robert. All his wits were in his sword hand. "Forget Plumm, just remember what I told you. Swear to me that you will stay by Tommen's side until the sun comes up."

Jaime IV, Feast 30

So, now we can surmise that the Lord Plumm from which Brown Ben, and Philip for that matter, descends (at least in name) is Ossifer, who was wed to an as yet unnamed Targaryen princess. 

Jaime notes the presence of Lord Philip, wearing purple, in the honor guard escorting the murdered Tywin’s corpse back to Casterly Rock. When Jaime arrives at Darry, we learn that Hardstone is likely banging Lancel’s new wife...

Jaime glanced about the yard, at the bearded faces of the sparrows. Too many. And too many Freys as well. "Where will I find Hardstone?"

"We had a report of outlaws beyond the Trident. Ser Harwyn took five knights and twenty archers and went to deal with them."

...

"Dondarrion's dead," said Strongboar. "The Mountain drove a knife through his eye, we have men with us who saw it."

"That's one tale," said Addam Marbrand. "Others will tell you that Lord Beric can't be killed."

"Ser Harwyn says those tales are lies." Lady Amerei wound a braid around her finger. "He has promised me Lord Beric's head. He's very gallant." She was blushing beneath her tears.

Jaime ... would have had a few choice words for Harwyn Plumm as well, though gallant would not have been one of them. Plumm's brothers were big, fleshy fellows with thick necks and red faces; loud and lusty, quick to laugh, quick to anger, quick to forgive. Harwyn was a different sort of Plumm; hard-eyed and taciturn, unforgiving ... and deadly, with his hammer in his hand. A good man to command a garrison, but not a man to love. Although ... Jaime gazed at Lady Amerei.

...

Jaime had to laugh. "Better me than Blessed Baelor. Darry needs a lion, coz. So does your little Frey. She gets moist between the legs every time someone mentions Hardstone. If she hasn't bedded him yet, she will soon."

...

"Lancel, you're a bloody fool."

"You are not wrong," said Lancel, "but my folly is behind me, ser. I have asked the Father Above to show me the way, and he has. I am renouncing this lordship and this wife. Hardstone is welcome to the both of them, if he likes. On the morrow I will return to King's Landing and swear my sword to the new High Septon and the Seven. I mean to take vows and join the Warrior's Sons."

Jaime IV, Feast 30

I wonder... Is Hardstone making a play for Darry through Amerei's portcullis? And what might that mean for a future encounter between Hardstone and Brown Ben?

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@Lost Melnibonean 

It looks that way, doesn't it? Considering Harwyn is commander of the Darry garrison, I wonder if he is on good terms with the Freys who are occupying the place? He has already promised to avenge Merrett's murder - one would think this might gain him a bit more political sway with Ami's family. 

Not sure how he and Ben's relationship would be, one is described as hard eyed while the other is said to be cold eyed - perhaps they would get on, maybe they have even met before. 

If Ben somehow earns Dany's forgiveness and comes to Westeros with her, I could see him being sent to parlay at Darry, providing Harwyn marries Ami, of course.

 Dany has fond memories of Willem Darry, so it would be reasonable for her to want to reach out to the current ruler of that keep. If Harwyn Plumm becomes Lord of Darry then a decent move for Ben to prove his loyalty would be to try to bring his distant kin over to Dany's cause.

Hardstone Plumm is a criminally underrated name too.

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1 hour ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

@Lost Melnibonean 

It looks that way, doesn't it? Considering Harwyn is commander of the Darry garrison, I wonder if he is on good terms with the Freys who are occupying the place? He has already promised to avenge Merrett's murder - one would think this might gain him a bit more political sway with Ami's family. 

Not sure how he and Ben's relationship would be, one is described as hard eyed while the other is said to be cold eyed - perhaps they would get on, maybe they have even met before. 

If Ben somehow earns Dany's forgiveness and comes to Westeros with her, I could see him being sent to parlay at Darry, providing Harwyn marries Ami, of course.

 Dany has fond memories of Willem Darry, so it would be reasonable for her to want to reach out to the current ruler of that keep. If Harwyn Plumm becomes Lord of Darry then a decent move for Ben to prove his loyalty would be to try to bring his distant kin over to Dany's cause.

Hardstone Plumm is a criminally underrated name too.

I hadn't thought of it that way. I was assuming the two side of the same Plumm would be rivals. Your ideas are interesting. Thanks. 

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