YOVMO Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 5 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Only Dany has ordered war crimes? Not Tywin or Vargo, Gregor, Ramsay? Ok, then fine. We can list Dany with Tywin, Vargo, Gregor and Ramsay. I hate dany, but if your point is that she is no different than the mountain or ramsay Bolton I would have a hard time disagreeing with you. I do not like Dany because dany represents everything that is wrong with monarchy. She is a foolish child with no experience, no real governing abilities, driven by emotion and who is essentially ignorant to the world around her, let alone the world she looks to rule in the future. However, because of a combination of her blood line and her weapons of mass destruction she is lauded as some kind of hero. I have never liked Dany as a character either. It is insane to think that 25 years and thousands of pages of character building and political intrigue would be ended by a cocky girl with dragons. I really see dany dying in a very pointless way. she doesn't belong in the story. But all that aside...I do not understand how one's RL political leanings might play a role in this. I am a political. To be honest, whatever the politics are, if they don't effect Westeros I really couldn't care less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 5 minutes ago, Ser Arthur Hightower said: 5 minutes ago, Ser Arthur Hightower said: 5 minutes ago, Ser Arthur Hightower said: We had another thread "are Stannis fans Conservative" quite a while ago, the conclusion seemed to be that there was a mixed bag, with a lean to liberal/left ideals, in line with this board in general. So I suspect the answer is "no", in general I think there is limited correlation between real world beliefs political views and character sympathies in the books, though I would like to see a poll that tested this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not a kneeler Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I don't dislike Dany, but neither am I wildly supportive of her. The positons she supports are those I support as well, and her methods to achieve them are extreme, but these are not modern times. What troubles me about her is that experience has taught me that so often those with reformist views start off well, but very quickly disintegrate into worst possible scenarios. She has a sense of entitlement to the throne of Westeros, a country in which she has never lived and the positon she is aiming for in not elected. Once she is in, she cannot be voted out. This is troubling. Politically I am more of an independent than anything. Conservative in some cases, liberal in others. I very much doubt that the Democrats would want to have anything to do with her. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 21 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I'd also point out that with very few exceptions, none of the characters correspond to any viable position on the modern political spectrum. No-one these days advocates for a non-constitutional hereditary monarchy, whereas they accept it as the natural order of things. (Take Ned Stark. His big issue isn't that Joffrey is a bad King. His issue is that Joffrey lacks the right DNA). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 @Hightower Sorry about the messy post. Dude, thanks, that's hysterical! {I'd say I am a Stannis fan, but only because I'm partial to blunt funny remarks) So, yeah, I'd say I was wrong 9 minutes ago, YOVMO said: Ok, then fine. We can list Dany with Tywin, Vargo, Gregor and Ramsay. I hate dany, but if your point is that she is no different than the mountain or ramsay Bolton I would have a hard time disagreeing with you. I do not like Dany because dany represents everything that is wrong with monarchy. She is a foolish child with no experience, no real governing abilities, driven by emotion and who is essentially ignorant to the world around her, let alone the world she looks to rule in the future. However, because of a combination of her blood line and her weapons of mass destruction she is lauded as some kind of hero. I have never liked Dany as a character either. It is insane to think that 25 years and thousands of pages of character building and political intrigue would be ended by a cocky girl with dragons. I really see dany dying in a very pointless way. she doesn't belong in the story. But all that aside...I do not understand how one's RL political leanings might play a role in this. I am a political. To be honest, whatever the politics are, if they don't effect Westeros I really couldn't care less. Thing is Vargo was Robb's creature. So were the ones who hanged the women for bedding with lions. The world is dark and full of terrors. She is lauded a hero by Jorah and Barristan. I find her heroic for saving thousands from slavery and destroying the evil that's Slavers Bay. And the same birthright bullshit, everyone goes through. How different is she from Sansa? So don't like her. I thought they're might be a connection. But out of curiosity, one newyorker to another, are you conservative? 5 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: I'd also point out that with very few exceptions, none of the characters correspond to any viable position on the modern political spectrum. No-one these days advocates for a non-constitutional hereditary monarchy, whereas they accept it as the natural order of things. (Take Ned Stark. His big issue isn't that Joffrey is a bad King. His issue is that Joffrey lacks the right DNA). Well, Ned's a dick. Beric seems like a communist to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOVMO Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Hugorfonics said: Thing is Vargo was Robb's creature. So were the ones who hanged the women for bedding with lions. The world is dark and full of terrors. The Northmen who hanged the women for laying with lions are a great example of how no one is perfect. I used the exact same analogy just earlier today while Defending Tywin Lannister and saying he isn't evil because evil would suggest he enjoys these things. 1 minute ago, Hugorfonics said: She is lauded a hero by Jorah and Barristan. I find her heroic for saving thousands from slavery and destroying the evil that's Slavers Bay. And the same birthright bullshit, everyone goes through. How different is she from Sansa? Ending slavery in slavers bay may not have been the best thing. She could have reformed slavery and imposed punishments on cruel masters. The freedman are in a very sorry state. She has basically made a muck of everything. The idea that she can unite the 7 kingdoms is, frankly, insane. She is the teenage girl version of her dad...she is less stable than the mad king. She can call her actions in slavers bay victory all she wants, at the end of the day she made things even worse than they already were. 1 minute ago, Hugorfonics said: So don't like her. Now, don't get me wrong...I love the books. I am not saying I wish she wasn't in them. But as far as character goes, I think she is as close to badguy as we get without getting to the point of ice zombies. I do think that she is going to get killed in the most meaningless way and I am going to love it both for the story and for what that will mean for the genre. 1 minute ago, Hugorfonics said: I thought they're might be a connection. But out of curiosity, one newyorker to another, are you conservative? I told you honestly. I am apolitical. I don't get involved. I am a conscientious objector to voting. I have no side I take on any non Westerosi or Essosi politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OuttaOldtown Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I feel like anyone who likes Stannis would be conservative, since he's wound up tighter than the girdle of a baptist minister's wife at an all-you-can-eat pancake breakfast.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masha Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said: Word, that's why I asked if you guys were politically conservative. I assume that most conservatives are similar to Republicans. Yet we all love Ned, who was an idiot and hypocrite, and if he didn't commit war crimes I'm sure his army did (like they did for his sons) Anyway, just for the hell of it, do you consider yourself conservative or liberal? I am not conservative at all and I dislike Dany actively. She seems like generic Mary Sue to me with entitlement "blood of dragon" thing going on and she can't solve any issues that come up to her as part of ruling responsibilities other than with fire or dragon power. I also dislike fAegon for his entitlement, wary of Arya going bad, and think Sansa still stuck in her dreamy word re: LF and knights in Vale, annoyed with most of Dorne characters other than Daynes because I think they are all bravado and will get killed off mostly due to their stupidity, with exception of Alleras who intrigues me a lot. I like Jon Snow, and like Margaery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I'm a bit divided on her but more positive than negative. For starters she seldom or never initiates the violece but answers people in kind. And I think that for someone who has not been tutored since childhood on how to rule she is learning well and fast. I dare say that she's amongt the more "good guys/girls" of the series. In addition to this there's also that she can show mercy to her enemies, one could actually well argue that she's to mercifuil rather than the opposite and that is what separates her from many others. If we look at JonCon and Aegon and Stannis they are all about destroying your enemies to the last, while Daenerys seems to hopefully get the message that after you have defeated your enemies its time to make them into your friends where possible (some die hards won't change of course). For House Lannister this gives a possibility. If Stannis or Aegon takes and keeps the throne its all over for House Lannister but there's a chance that Daenerys can be talked into letting House Lannnister live on, just like she didn't exterminate all the rich slaver families in Meereen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 37 minutes ago, YOVMO said: Ok, then fine. We can list Dany with Tywin, Vargo, Gregor and Ramsay. I hate dany, but if your point is that she is no different than the mountain or ramsay Bolton I would have a hard time disagreeing with you. I do not like Dany because dany represents everything that is wrong with monarchy. She is a foolish child with no experience, no real governing abilities, driven by emotion and who is essentially ignorant to the world around her, let alone the world she looks to rule in the future. However, because of a combination of her blood line and her weapons of mass destruction she is lauded as some kind of hero. I have never liked Dany as a character either. It is insane to think that 25 years and thousands of pages of character building and political intrigue would be ended by a cocky girl with dragons. I really see dany dying in a very pointless way. she doesn't belong in the story. But all that aside...I do not understand how one's RL political leanings might play a role in this. I am a political. To be honest, whatever the politics are, if they don't effect Westeros I really couldn't care less. If you are expecting this to happen you are going to be severely disappointed. I suggest you don't even bother reading the remaining books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOVMO Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 1 minute ago, El Guapo said: If you are expecting this to happen you are going to be severely disappointed. I suggest you don't even bother reading the remaining books. Why would you say that. I do fully expect it to happen. Maybe it won't. George hasn't let me down yet though, even where I thought he would go one way and he went another. I think Dany has been a wonderful part of this story and her part is at an end and there will be a lot of fan boys who, once again, learn that life is a precious and flitting thing and often times the things they find important die very easily....much the way Ice went through Ned's neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 1 minute ago, YOVMO said: Why would you say that. I do fully expect it to happen. Maybe it won't. George hasn't let me down yet though, even where I thought he would go one way and he went another. I think Dany has been a wonderful part of this story and her part is at an end and there will be a lot of fan boys who, once again, learn that life is a precious and flitting thing and often times the things they find important die very easily....much the way Ice went through Ned's neck. Because there is a 0% chance that Dany is going to die a pointless death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaywolf123 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Dany is pro-war and i am anti-War. Thats why i dont like her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 12 minutes ago, YOVMO said: The Northmen who hanged the women for laying with lions are a great example of how no one is perfect. I used the exact same analogy just earlier today while Defending Tywin Lannister and saying he isn't evil because evil would suggest he enjoys these things. I wouldn't agree with that definition. Gregor see!s to be in constant misery, that's no reason to write off his blatent "evilness" (evil is such a weird word) 15 minutes ago, YOVMO said: Ending slavery in slavers bay may not have been the best thing. She could have reformed slavery and imposed punishments on cruel masters. The freedman are in a very sorry state. She has basically made a muck of everything. The idea that she can unite the 7 kingdoms is, frankly, insane. She is the teenage girl version of her dad...she is less stable than the mad king. She can call her actions in slavers bay victory all she wants, at the end of the day she made things even worse than they already were. There is no reformation for slavery. All masters are cruel. Evil may sound queer on the tounge when referencing a human, but this concept is evil, no exceptions. But enough preaching, she couldn't really do that if she wanted to. She let some sell themselves but that didn't appease Volantis, because she destroyed the factory that is Slavers Bay. Dany has to go all in or nothing, because her enimeies are. The idea that anyone can unite them is insane, but so is Drogon. I agree she's less stable then her father, I disagree her father was mad (at least by Westerosi Kings standards) At the end of the day she gave freedom. 23 minutes ago, YOVMO said: I told you honestly. I am apolitical. I don't get involved. I am a conscientious objector to voting. I have no side I take on any non Westerosi or Essosi politics. OK. 13 minutes ago, Masha said: I am not conservative at all and I dislike Dany actively. She seems like generic Mary Sue to me with entitlement "blood of dragon" thing going on and she can't solve any issues that come up to her as part of ruling responsibilities other than with fire or dragon power. I also dislike fAegon for his entitlement, wary of Arya going bad, and think Sansa still stuck in her dreamy word re: LF and knights in Vale, annoyed with most of Dorne characters other than Daynes because I think they are all bravado and will get killed off mostly due to their stupidity, with exception of Alleras who intrigues me a lot. I like Jon Snow, and like Margaery. Word, rip my theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said: Dany is pro-war and i am anti-War. Thats why i dont like her You must hate pretty much every character in the story then, except for maybe Ellaria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 12 minutes ago, El Guapo said: Because there is a 0% chance that Dany is going to die a pointless death. GRRM is that you? I don't necessary disagree with you but the way you talk suggests that you know more than the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 27 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Beric seems like a communist to me He really isn't. For starters, he derives his "mandate" from Robert Baratheon. A King. Communists don't believe that hereditary aristocrats should care for those beneath them. They don't believe in hereditary aristocrats, full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOVMO Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 8 minutes ago, El Guapo said: Because there is a 0% chance that Dany is going to die a pointless death. Based on what do you say that? Feelz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksAndSparrows Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Brandon the builder was a Republican. "Winter is coming....you're fired" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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