Where are the Others?

[[Deleted]]

So far, we haven't seen where the Others are actually based except for a brief glimpse in Season 5. We have no idea how far their "home" is from the Wall, but the general consensus seems to be that they are amassing an army with the intent to launch an assault on the Wall.

If that's true, where are they at the end of Season 6? So far, we've seen them launch mostly guerilla style attacks with small strike forces except for Hardhome where they attacked in force. After Hardhome, where did they go? Where is the bulk of their army stationed? And what are they waiting for to launch their attack, if that is, in fact, their plan? Do you think they are already moving south, or have they gone "home" again?

[Runaway Penguin]

Maybe controlling the undead armies takes a lot of effort, so they can only use them for one strike and then have to rest for a long time?
Also they were likely looking for the 3ER cave etc.

[[Deleted]]

33 minutes ago, Runaway Penguin said:

Maybe controlling the undead armies takes a lot of effort, so they can only use them for one strike and then have to rest for a long time?
Also they were likely looking for the 3ER cave etc.

And that makes me wonder: What was it about the 3ER that made him their Public Enemy #1 that they would storm his cave as soon as they knew where he was? Did he know some secret to defeating them? Or do they have some kind of grudge against him?

Still so many questions...

[Asvpxkvng]

They most likely come from The Land of Always Winter or beyond it. But this thread is great and raises questions I've asked for a long time. Why are the White Walkers such a powerful force that only stacks sparingly? Presumably to build up their army of dead. It's probable they've been attacking wildlings a lot more than the sparse fights we've seen which is what prompted the move south. Indeed it only takes a few WW to control a Hardhome size massive army so they gave no lack of control. I'd believe over thousands of years they'd have more than a few WW. They're probably holed off somewhere just behind the lines of dead until a full scale invasion of the Seven Kingdoms is possible. Then I hope (or maybe not) comes ice spiders, undead horses, and hordes of WW on their backs. Am I the only one who kind of is rooting for a WW invasion just to see some action with these epic creatures?

[xjlxking]

14 minutes ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

And that makes me wonder: What was it about the 3ER that made him their Public Enemy #1 that they would storm his cave as soon as they knew where he was? Did he know some secret to defeating them? Or do they have some kind of grudge against him?

Still so many questions...

My predication is that Bran and the 3er actually warg into the night King to keep the others away. 

We have seen him warg humans, and animals, I don't see why the others would be different 

[[Deleted]]

32 minutes ago, Asvpxkvng said:

They most likely come from The Land of Always Winter or beyond it. But this thread is great and raises questions I've asked for a long time. Why are the White Walkers such a powerful force that only stacks sparingly? Presumably to build up their army of dead. It's probable they've been attacking wildlings a lot more than the sparse fights we've seen which is what prompted the move south. Indeed it only takes a few WW to control a Hardhome size massive army so they gave no lack of control. I'd believe over thousands of years they'd have more than a few WW. They're probably holed off somewhere just behind the lines of dead until a full scale invasion of the Seven Kingdoms is possible. Then I hope (or maybe not) comes ice spiders, undead horses, and hordes of WW on their backs. Am I the only one who kind of is rooting for a WW invasion just to see some action with these epic creatures?

You're not alone. I still want to know what they want and why they are attacking now.

One thing I will say, when we saw the NK change the baby in Oathkeeper in season 5, there seemed to be only 12 "Generals", for lack of a better word, around the NK. We are supposed to find these ones special because they dress all in black, as opposed to the WW "Grunts" who seem to wear tattered clothing.

Since then, we've seen 2 of the Generals get killed, 1 by Jon at Hardhome and 1 by Meera in the cave. I wonder if those 12 were all there were, and what happened to the "Grunts"? It seems we haven't seen them at all since about Season 4, it's been only the Generals since then.

[El Guapo]

10 hours ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

So far, we haven't seen where the Others are actually based except for a brief glimpse in Season 5. We have no idea how far their "home" is from the Wall, but the general consensus seems to be that they are amassing an army with the intent to launch an assault on the Wall.

If that's true, where are they at the end of Season 6? So far, we've seen them launch mostly guerilla style attacks with small strike forces except for Hardhome where they attacked in force. After Hardhome, where did they go? Where is the bulk of their army stationed? And what are they waiting for to launch their attack, if that is, in fact, their plan? Do you think they are already moving south, or have they gone "home" again?

Plot reasons. They are waiting for Dany to arrive with her army.

[Sir Matthis Light]

Don't each perspective takes place during different times? I know its a stretch, but for all we know King Jon and the North Lords could be up at the Wall doing battle with the undead, while Daenerys is just making her Queens Landing.

[Cron]

On 7/25/2016 at 11:27 PM, Aegonzo The Great said:

So far, we haven't seen where the Others are actually based except for a brief glimpse in Season 5. We have no idea how far their "home" is from the Wall, but the general consensus seems to be that they are amassing an army with the intent to launch an assault on the Wall.

If that's true, where are they at the end of Season 6? So far, we've seen them launch mostly guerilla style attacks with small strike forces except for Hardhome where they attacked in force. After Hardhome, where did they go? Where is the bulk of their army stationed? And what are they waiting for to launch their attack, if that is, in fact, their plan? Do you think they are already moving south, or have they gone "home" again?

Great thread, Aegonzo, I've thought about similar things.

My belief:  It's a huge plot hole, plain and simple.

To my knowledge, the White Walker Crew has NO reason to hold back and loiter up north, but that's exactly what they seem to be doing.

We have seen them gathered in the hundreds, most notably, off the top of my head, when Sam, in Season 3, I believe, was cowering in terror from them.  After that, Sam and some other Night's Watch brothers made it to Craster's, then ultimately all the way back to Castle Black, and that enormous gathering of White Walker Crew just...disappeared, as far as I know.  Why didn't they just walk relentlessly to Castle Black and attack?  I have no idea..

As far as I know, they do not eat, they do not need rest, they practically can't be killed (except by a few limited means), and they are basically zombies.  I can't even imagine where that horde went or what they are doing.

WHY did they not go straight to the Wall, and/or Castle Black, or whatever?

I believe I've heard something about them being unable to pass the Wall until it comes down...but we've already seen wights inside Castle Black itself, when Jon killed two of them in Season One.

I think I have SOME general idea that their plan is to bring down the Wall altogether, but I have no clue why they are not massed down near the Wall, at a bare minimum, and/or have not already taken Castle Black.

There are other plot holes, too, I think.  Mance Rayder had 100,000 people.  Where the heck did THEY all go??? Okay, some died (only a very small force attacked Castle Black, though, that was specifically said), then Stannis arrived and killed a bunch, I'm sure, then some went to Hardholme I believe, and Jon let some through the gates at Castle Black, but my goodness...100,000 people???   I find it hard to believe they've all been plausibly accounted for.

[NutBurz]

Waiting for the winter? They probably move around the extreme north because it´s always winter there.

[Garse Ironjade Janacek]

On 7/26/2016 at 10:09 AM, Aegonzo The Great said:

You're not alone. I still want to know what they want and why they are attacking now.

One thing I will say, when we saw the NK change the baby in Oathkeeper in season 5, there seemed to be only 12 "Generals", for lack of a better word, around the NK. We are supposed to find these ones special because they dress all in black, as opposed to the WW "Grunts" who seem to wear tattered clothing.

Since then, we've seen 2 of the Generals get killed, 1 by Jon at Hardhome and 1 by Meera in the cave. I wonder if those 12 were all there were, and what happened to the "Grunts"? It seems we haven't seen them at all since about Season 4, it's been only the Generals since then.

And how come none of them look like the cool one in the Prologue?  I miss those WW!

I have also noticed the differences in appearance.  I wonder if it is on purpose to define the differences in the WW types/classes, or if they just leave that all up to the CGI guys and say, "give us one of those white walkers for this sword fight with Jon Snow."   

I think the WW are close to Bran, waiting for him to pass through the wall.  I think this chiefly because I am pretty sure that Coldhands is in league with them, and was "assisting" Bran to get him to the wall as quick as possible to facilitate an invasion.

If that is true, then if we don't see Bran, we don't really have a reason to see the NK and his crew.

[lakin1013]

15 hours ago, Cron said:

My belief:  It's a huge plot hole, plain and simple.

I agree.  In the books, GRRM can give us reminders about the Others periodically.  The show does not give us those reminders or hints to any great extent so we are left to wonder.  I personally assume they are watching tv in their igloo homes, maybe watching Frozen.

[yourgrace]

A lot of mystery about them. Heres a video with some info about WW/wights etc.  https://youtu.be/lTuW6WeUV3w  Might be helpful, i dunno. There are other vids too that help shed a little light, but really we'll just have to wait and see. 

 

[Lurid Jester]

10 hours ago, Cron said:

WHY did they not go straight to the Wall, and/or Castle Black, or whatever?

I believe I've heard something about them being unable to pass the Wall until it comes down...but we've already seen wights inside Castle Black itself, when Jon killed two of them in Season One.

I think they were either a test, or an early attempt by the NK to open the wall up.  Seems like he left the bodies by the wall just so they would be found because while they couldn't cross the wall under their own power (or through his control) he could reconnect once they were across the wall.  Then he could kill some people and maybe open the way. 

Or it was just to have a dramatic scene where Jon kills some wights. 

[Cron]

3 hours ago, Lurid Jester said:

I think they were either a test, or an early attempt by the NK to open the wall up.  Seems like he left the bodies by the wall just so they would be found because while they couldn't cross the wall under their own power (or through his control) he could reconnect once they were across the wall.  Then he could kill some people and maybe open the way. 

Or it was just to have a dramatic scene where Jon kills some wights. 

Yeah, I really don't fully understand it.

We've been told somthing about them not being able to pass the Wall, yet they WERE inside Caslte Black, which isn't even IN hte Wall, it's on the southern side of it.

[Cron]

5 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

I agree.  In the books, GRRM can give us reminders about the Others periodically.  The show does not give us those reminders or hints to any great extent so we are left to wonder.  I personally assume they are watching tv in their igloo homes.

Could be.

Or playing Pokemon Go.

HARRRR!!!!!!

[Lurid Jester]

Just now, Cron said:

Yeah, I really don't fully understand it.

We've been told somthing about them not being able to pass the Wall, yet they WERE inside Caslte Black, which isn't even IN hte Wall, it's on the southern side of it.

Definitely a potential plot hole.  Seems if he can control bodies on the far side of the wall, why not just start raising the dead on that side?  Unless he need to do something to them first, like pairing Bluetooth devices.   Maybe that can only be done relatively close, but once paired he can reconnect and control them from greater distances.  

Maybe?

[mykeuva]

15 hours ago, Cron said:

WHY did they not go straight to the Wall, and/or Castle Black, or whatever?

I believe I've heard something about them being unable to pass the Wall until it comes down...but we've already seen wights inside Castle Black itself, when Jon killed two of them in Season One.

Why go straight to the wall when the white walkers cannot pass it, at least up until that point? To mass at the wall, and have their foot soldiers be targets for flaming pitch from the top of the wall, slowly eating away at their army?

The wights that were in castle black were brought in as dead men. They didn't walk right on in as wights.

[Runaway Penguin]

I still think they have some limits to their power. Basically... Mind controlling the zombies for one purpose would be like a hell of an Air Traffic Control. ATCs usually have to retire early from all the stress, so there. While the wights can be autonomous to some degree ("scrush kill destroy level), such as those waiting by the CoTF cave, for proper actions they need direct guidance and thus lot of efforts.

 

heck, they remind me of Viking armies in england  Despite the reputation of crazy berserkers and whatnot... Vikings tended to pick their fights very carefully, as they could ill afford losses. Once they commited, they fought like demons, but often when facing stiff defense they just diverted for easier target.

So far:

• Campaign against the wildlings: More like a guerilla warfare, small skirmishes, isolated wights sent back much like the two to CB.
• Ambushes of NW patrols and smuggling wights to CB fts into this
• Strike against the NW at Fist: opportunistic attack at main enemy (Watchers on the Walls)
• Hardhome: Snatching some meat puppets relatively for free.

They however did leave Wildling army relatively alone. Maybe they are not THAT powerful as they like to pretend and know that no matter how subtle the Other, Obsidian is a sure death but an arrow into an eye hurts like hell too? I mean the implication is that they were distracted/exhausted by the attack on the Fist, plus they might have been concerned about their mothers, but still... With their perceived powers one Other plus a detachment of meat puppetts should have been enough to secure Craster's Keep while the rest would go after Wildlings, right?

[Cron]

8 hours ago, mykeuva said:

Why go straight to the wall when the white walkers cannot pass it, at least up until that point? To mass at the wall, and have their foot soldiers be targets for flaming pitch from the top of the wall, slowly eating away at their army?

The wights that were in castle black were brought in as dead men. They didn't walk right on in as wights.

War is often about controlling territory.

By massing at or near the Wall, the WW Crew would effectively control the territory just on the other side of the Wall, and prevent the Night's Watch from doing the things they like and need to do north of the Wall (hunting, ranging, scouting, et cetera).

Your point about the wights having been carried past the wall as dead men may be critical, I just don't know.  The "rules" about this stuff ar not at all clear to me, and I believe I've yet to see anyone in this Forum precisely describe those rules and cite the source of the information (I've read all the books twice and watched every episode multiple times.  I seem to recall some very vague references to the issue, but no detailed specifics).  So you certainly might be right.

But even if that's so, I could think of ways they could make use of the "loophole" of being carried through the Wall, rather than walking.

But we just don't have a complete rule book for the Wall and its magic. Indeed, I've OFTEN wondered why the wildings and WW Crew don't just tunnel through it or under it.  The Wall is NOT invulnerable to harm.  My goodness, it is said to "weep" or melt in the snow, and there are HUNDREDS OF MILES of it that are totally undefended.  Why ON EARTH did Mance Rayder choose to attack at one of the VERY few places that were defended????  I've never understood that.  Mance had 100,000 people!!!  Hey, I've got an idea, get 5,000 robust wilding men with pick axes and shovels, and just tunnel through or under!!!    The vast majority of the Wall is just ice and snow, as I understand it.  Holy cow, Mance had GIANTS and MAMMOTHS!!

(Indeed, the more I think about it, the more ludicrous Mance's attack plan becomes in my mind.  My goodness, just fashion 10 rope ladders 700' long, which is not a big deal when you have such an enormous labor force, then have a group of guys climb the Wall, fastening the rope ladders to the Wall and each other at regular intervals with pitons and the like.  Once they get to the top, you would have able bodied men and women scrambling up the Wall by the dozens within minutes.  Within a couple hours, you could have HUNDREDS of wildlings on the Wall and on the other side, then thousands and thousands.  Post men to guard the top of the Wall from Night's Watch coming from both directions.  Do it near one of the 16 unguarded forts, take the fort, use wildings, giants and mammoths to open the tunnels, and within 5 or 10 hours wildlings would be pouring through by the thousands.  I could go on and on.)

But maybe someone here can precisely explain the rules that (presumably) prevent such things, and what the source of that information is.  Frankly, I doubt there is any rule which would prevent the wildings from doing what I said.  It is KNOWN (specifically stated) that Mance attacked Castle Black with a VERY small percentage of his force.  If he had pressed the attack when they made the original assault, he WOULD have easily won (i know, I know, Mance THOUGHT there were 1,000 Night's Watch, cuz that's what Jon told him, but even that number is nothing compared to the size of Mance's force, and of course he would have soon realized Jon had lied, and the real number was barely 1/10th of that)